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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On January 14 2011 04:02 Odds wrote: How exactly do you max E by level 9 without feeding/getting no farm in lane? how does maxing my best ability make me not get any farm? dont understand | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
E depends so much on your oponent's abilities | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 14 2011 03:45 mercurial wrote: apparently kennen's don't have shurikens or lightning rushes  vs. a melee hero who's last hitting amongst his own minions and doesn't need to try to set up angles to harass you, how exactly do you play on landing Shurikens? And how do you expect to use your lightning rush offensively without taking it directly up the ass? I'm more than happy to get into a close range auto-attack fight amongst my minions with a Kennen who just charged my passive. not to mention that I'm being EXTREMELY generous in assuming you could even trade auto-W + active-W for my Q considering I outrange your auto by 125 with my Q. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 14 2011 03:56 Brees wrote: your team must hate you at dragon fights, where kassadin can absolutely break the game with maxed E at level 9. so broken. it also makes farming easymode when you can E an entire wave instead of sitting around and auto attacking all of them, waste of time referring to people that dont level E I typically end up farming top all game, LOL. When I'm mid, I do make E a higher priority for dargon fights. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
but kennen beats pretty much any1 1v1 so doesnt mean much | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
On January 14 2011 04:35 Mogwai wrote: vs. a melee hero who's last hitting amongst his own minions and doesn't need to try to set up angles to harass you, how exactly do you play on landing Shurikens? And how do you expect to use your lightning rush offensively without taking it directly up the ass? I'm more than happy to get into a close range auto-attack fight amongst my minions with a Kennen who just charged my passive. not to mention that I'm being EXTREMELY generous in assuming you could even trade auto-W + active-W for my Q considering I outrange your auto by 125 with my Q. Rofl, your saying I couldn't autoattack you if you Q'd me? xD your also being very generous with forgetting about how clumsy heroes walk about through creeps, not to mention the fact that theres no need for an angle seeing that im the one that outpushes you, meaning you have less creeps then me, making it easier for me to hit those q's because you won't have enough creeps to hide behind. So you'd either have to give up cs or take a hit. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:31 Brees wrote: and ya kennen shits on kassadin i dont know why this is even a debate. its not even close, kass gets zoned from lvl 1. but kennen beats pretty much any1 1v1 so doesnt mean much *shrugs* I think Kass wins it. I haven't lost the matchup yet but maybe the Kennens I play against suck. On January 14 2011 05:31 mercurial wrote: Rofl, your saying I couldn't autoattack you if you Q'd me? xD your also being very generous with forgetting about how clumsy heroes walk about through creeps, not to mention the fact that theres no need for an angle seeing that im the one that outpushes you, meaning you have less creeps then me, making it easier for me to hit those q's because you won't have enough creeps to hide behind. So you'd either have to give up cs or take a hit. uhg, I wish you were on NA so that I could just show you what I'm talking about. I'm not theorycrafting, I'm going off of my experiences in the matchup from both sides. Kassadin simply wins attrition vs. Kennen. EDIT: here's the old discussion on the matchup: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129727¤tpage=1356#27105 I don't think anything has really changed tbh. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On January 14 2011 03:54 Ecael wrote: Apparently Kennens have infinite energy too, this is reminding me of Shikyo's verbal spars with Uta. Hahaha actually everytime i read mercurial's posts he does remind me of Shikyo  | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
On January 14 2011 05:43 Mogwai wrote: *shrugs* I think Kass wins it. I haven't lost the matchup yet but maybe the Kennens I play against suck. uhg, I wish you were on NA so that I could just show you what I'm talking about. I'm not theorycrafting, I'm going off of my experiences in the matchup from both sides. Kassadin simply wins attrition vs. Kennen. EDIT: here's the old discussion on the matchup: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129727¤tpage=1356#27105 I don't think anything has really changed tbh. Lets just put the discussion to rest for now then  | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
However, there are also a lot of bad kennens who eats free Q's trying to last hit, or provokes too many minion aggro while retaliating. Kennen usually does come out ahead if he uses lightning rush to tank Kassadin's Q, close the gap to below 575 and then autoattack + stun combo the crap out of Kass. Keep in mind that as the levels go up, Kass will scale better with the exchanges, but early on, his inability to deal back physical damage makes him really bad vs Kennen who can close gaps so easily. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 14 2011 06:23 Juicyfruit wrote: If Kennen takes W at level 1 and charges the passive on jungle creeps before coming to lane, Kass will have a hard time last hitting levels 1-3. However, there are also a lot of bad kennens who eats free Q's trying to last hit, or provokes too many minion aggro while retaliating. Kennen usually does come out ahead if he uses lightning rush to tank Kassadin's Q, close the gap to below 575 and then autoattack + stun combo the crap out of Kass. Keep in mind that as the levels go up, Kass will scale better with the exchanges, but early on, his inability to deal back physical damage makes him really bad vs Kennen who can close gaps so easily. LMAO. Take W at level 1? Good fucking luck with that one chief, haha. EDIT: I mean, literally the entire reason Kassadin doesn't just run up on you and jack you up with auto-attacks is because it makes him eat shurikens. If you take W, I will literally just walk up to you and attack you if you try to apply a W mark to me. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I mean it's not like Kassadin has a blink early on. He's not pantheon, so he can't just "walk up and attack" in the span of 1 kennen auto. | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
First of all you don't attack neutral creeps as Kennen. Second: you can't check bushes. Third: the active CD is rediculous at lvl 1, shuriken's is not. Also, a Kassadin will never engage at lvl 1 unless he has exhaust & ignite, or you make some retarded mistake. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
I used to start with Sapphire Crystal and took Clarity. However, I decided to try out some more durable options. I now start with Doran's Shield, and take Ignite. "Winning" the lane is due to simple attrition. By the time I'm 6, if my lane is 1v1, my opponent is generally forced to go back home. This sets up a great gank window as I'm now free of my lane's responsibilities for a time. If you're at mid, prior to lvl 6, you're probably not going to land [E] vs a ranged character unless they're pretty bad. Thus, I feel that I can safely take just 1 rank in [W] and away from [E]. I would never get [W] at level 1 though. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
If you skip W in favor of E, you obviously do it to have E maxed asap for strong for R-E combos without sacrificing Q ranks. Doesn't really matter if you can use it before lvl 6 or not. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
On January 14 2011 08:23 Juicyfruit wrote: The reason you take W on Kassadin at level 2 is really so that you can start with Doran's Sheild instead of Doran's Ring. Agreed. [S]orry you find it [W]eird. It's an old habit from [a]nother [g]ame. :D | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On January 14 2011 07:24 Juicyfruit wrote: You can kite the wolves around before going mid, and charge the passive before going to lane, easily, without losing exp or taking any damage. This is legit, but not the best opening vs kassadin in particular. A good kassadin will take note of when ur shuriken is charged and they can q accordingly if they think you're going for an auto, leaving u with a wauto trade for a q at best (not the best considering passives and if he opens dshield and whatnot) and getting q kited at worst if the kassadin has no lasthits he wants to go for. The biggest problem is that if you really want to keep kassadin "zoned" at level 1 you have to save ur wautos for him and can't lasthit yourself lol unless kassadin stupidly lets you charge ur passive on lasthits only (in which case you could probably win against him regardless of skilling order). Also, at level 1, the chance of you getting a stun off (two wauto procs) is fairly low if the opponent knows what he's doing (when to pull back and how to trade etc). | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
On January 14 2011 07:24 Juicyfruit wrote: You can kite the wolves around before going mid, and charge the passive before going to lane, easily, without losing exp or taking any damage. This is not viable in a game where lvl 1 fights are frequent @ higher ranked. People trie to steal red's/blue's all the time, or wraiths if your name is 5hit. You need the lvl 1 shuriken for bush checking, long range damage and if you get lucky, a stun. Sure you can pull it off before you start playing with the good people, but why get used to something you can't always use? Its like playing nasus till 1600 only to realise that people know hes crap and ignore him at that point. Point is, W might work, BUT YOU NEED SHURIKEN. | ||
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