EPT[Champion] Singed - Page 11
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
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Saeglopur
Canada177 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:00 Vaporized wrote: in regards to singed counters: whenever the other team picks singed i counter with shyvana. you can kill singed at lvl 2, just straight up. every lvl up to 6 your kill potential just gets stronger and stronger, and if hes not dead by 6 you can dive his turret with dragon form. if you get a kill then the lane is over for singed, you can kill him whenever he comes out to cs. i go flash/ignite on shyv. How do you pick a fight with singed at level 2 as shyvana? You have no slow, stun, or anything to stop him from kiting. I don't understand why you would tower dive singed at 6 either, assuming he hits 6 as well. Your strategy seems to be one that constantly put pressure on singed from 1-6. Shyvana is very easily ganked pre 6 and I seriously doubt you even win trades when you are being kited with w while he flings, AA, and poisons you. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
slow start but you can start ghost diving people after getting doublebuff n shit (prolly gotta heal first tho) run up a lane with ghost at the right time and its ilke a guranteed kill | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
singed gets a 10 sec cd fling, and a 14 sec cd aoe slow. if you save shyvana w for after he flips you, you can catch back up and stick to him. i mention lvl 2 because if singed goes poison - fling, shyvana can kill him, especially with ignite. and i mentioned flash, if you get slowed you can flash back onto singed, then w, which lets you again stick to singed because you have a movespeed boost and his slow is on cd. you dont need more then a few seconds of w and ~2-3 q's + ignite to kill singed early game. shyvana early game damage is massive, and singed is squishy early game. it is actually fairly one-sided and the singed will be zoned or die. | ||
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Saeglopur
Canada177 Posts
On August 20 2012 04:22 Vaporized wrote: in order to farm singed is going to have to be in melee range of the creeps (to either hit them with his fist or poison). singed gets a 10 sec cd fling, and a 14 sec cd aoe slow. if you save shyvana w for after he flips you, you can catch back up and stick to him. i mention lvl 2 because if singed goes poison - fling, shyvana can kill him, especially with ignite. and i mentioned flash, if you get slowed you can flash back onto singed, then w, which lets you again stick to singed because you have a movespeed boost and his slow is on cd. you dont need more then a few seconds of w and ~2-3 q's + ignite to kill singed early game. shyvana early game damage is massive, and singed is squishy early game. it is actually fairly one-sided and the singed will be zoned or die. I don't know what ELO bracket you are in to face a singed that dies at level 2 when singed has one of the best level 2 combos in the game. I've NEVER even heard of a shyvana going for a flash ignite combo for a level 2 kill. Why would a singed randomly flip you when you don't have w on? All this leads me to assume you are playing some scrub singed and decided that shyvana hardcounters singed based on limited results against inferior opponents. I also don't understand why you mentioned singed's cooldowns when shyvana's w has a 3 second duration and a 12 second cooldown... you simply cannot stick on singed. If you want to test your theory on a mediocore but not terrible singed, I'm always up for improving my matchups. | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:26 Saeglopur wrote: I don't know what ELO bracket you are in to face a singed that dies at level 2 when singed has one of the best level 2 combos in the game. I've NEVER even heard of a shyvana going for a flash ignite combo for a level 2 kill. Why would a singed randomly flip you when you don't have w on? All this leads me to assume you are playing some scrub singed and decided that shyvana hardcounters singed based on limited results against inferior opponents. I also don't understand why you mentioned singed's cooldowns when shyvana's w has a 3 second duration and a 12 second cooldown... you simply cannot stick on singed. If you want to test your theory on a mediocore but not terrible singed, I'm always up for improving my matchups. It's a 6 second duration assuming you can actually get autos on singed. Before he has his goop, I don't see why you can't get in melee range and W and glue yourself to him for 6 seconds, or at least force a ghost. Burning flash would just make him burn ghost safely, though - I don't think that would accomplish anything. Singed is pretty easy to bully early on. I expect you can zone him from creeps up through 6 and outtrade his poison. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On August 09 2012 13:31 Haasts wrote: No idea if it's workable in any hands other than those of InvertedComposer, but I've really enjoyed spectating random featured games with his top lane Singed - he's running the Bane-esque Augmented skin, running hybrid pen marks, and building an early Sheen to punch people in the face after tossing them around. Composer is a true badass.. i thought singed was a goner until i saw him play. i learned the truth and now i beat Darius top. true story | ||
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Morzas
United States387 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:26 Saeglopur wrote: I don't know what ELO bracket you are in to face a singed that dies at level 2 when singed has one of the best level 2 combos in the game. I've NEVER even heard of a shyvana going for a flash ignite combo for a level 2 kill. Why would a singed randomly flip you when you don't have w on? All this leads me to assume you are playing some scrub singed and decided that shyvana hardcounters singed based on limited results against inferior opponents. I also don't understand why you mentioned singed's cooldowns when shyvana's w has a 3 second duration and a 12 second cooldown... you simply cannot stick on singed. If you want to test your theory on a mediocore but not terrible singed, I'm always up for improving my matchups. Actually, the damage from Shyvana's level 2 W + Q combo is comparable to Singed's level Q + E combo. Here's Singed's Q, E and his stats at level 2. + Show Spoiler + Singed @ level 2: 320 MS, 125 range, 569 HP, 305 MP, 8.20 HP5, 7.70 MP5, 25.00 armor, 30.00 MR, 63.40 damage, 0.624 AS Singed [Q] Poison Trail; 13 Mana per Second; 1 sec Cooldown -- Toggle: Singed lays a poisonous trail that deals 22/34/46/58/70 (+0.3 AP) magic damage per second. Singed [E] Fling; 100/110/120/130/140 Mana; 10 sec Cooldown; 125 range -- Singed flings an enemy over his shoulder, dealing 100/150/200/250/300 (+1 AP) magic damage. Compare this to the following: + Show Spoiler + Shyvana @ level 2: 325 MS, 125 range, 625 HP, 100 energy, 8.85 HP5, 24.70 armor, 32.50 MR, 61.80 damage, 0.674 AS Shyvana [W] Burnout; No Cost; 12 sec Cooldown; 325 range -- Shyvana deals 25/40/55/70/85 (+0.2 Bonus AD) magic damage per second to nearby enemies and moves 30/35/40/45/50% faster for 3 seconds. Shyvana's Movement Speed bonus is reduced over time. Dragon Form: Burnout scorches the earth, continuing to damage enemies that stand on it. Shyvana [Q] Twin Bite; No Cost; 10/9/8/7/6 sec Cooldown; 650 range -- Shyvana strikes twice on her next attack, dealing (+N/A) physical damage on the second attack. The bonus damage is equal to 80/85/90/95/100% of Shyvana's Attack Damage. Dragon Form: Twin Bite cleaves all units in front Shyvana. 61.80 damage (her base AD at level 2) * 1.8 = 111.24 damage from her Q. This is comparable to Fling's damage. It could go either way. Their damage numbers and base stats are about equal. | ||
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Saeglopur
Canada177 Posts
On August 20 2012 08:55 exo6yte wrote: Actually, the damage from Shyvana's level 2 W + Q combo is comparable to Singed's level Q + E combo. Here's Singed's Q, E and his stats at level 2. + Show Spoiler + Singed @ level 2: 320 MS, 125 range, 569 HP, 305 MP, 8.20 HP5, 7.70 MP5, 25.00 armor, 30.00 MR, 63.40 damage, 0.624 AS Singed [Q] Poison Trail; 13 Mana per Second; 1 sec Cooldown -- Toggle: Singed lays a poisonous trail that deals 22/34/46/58/70 (+0.3 AP) magic damage per second. Singed [E] Fling; 100/110/120/130/140 Mana; 10 sec Cooldown; 125 range -- Singed flings an enemy over his shoulder, dealing 100/150/200/250/300 (+1 AP) magic damage. Compare this to the following: + Show Spoiler + Shyvana @ level 2: 325 MS, 125 range, 625 HP, 100 energy, 8.85 HP5, 24.70 armor, 32.50 MR, 61.80 damage, 0.674 AS Shyvana [W] Burnout; No Cost; 12 sec Cooldown; 325 range -- Shyvana deals 25/40/55/70/85 (+0.2 Bonus AD) magic damage per second to nearby enemies and moves 30/35/40/45/50% faster for 3 seconds. Shyvana's Movement Speed bonus is reduced over time. Dragon Form: Burnout scorches the earth, continuing to damage enemies that stand on it. Shyvana [Q] Twin Bite; No Cost; 10/9/8/7/6 sec Cooldown; 650 range -- Shyvana strikes twice on her next attack, dealing (+N/A) physical damage on the second attack. The bonus damage is equal to 80/85/90/95/100% of Shyvana's Attack Damage. Dragon Form: Twin Bite cleaves all units in front Shyvana. 61.80 damage (her base AD at level 2) * 1.8 = 111.24 damage from her Q. This is comparable to Fling's damage. It could go either way. Their damage numbers and base stats are about equal. Thanks for the stats. I'm not saying singed will beat shyvana, I simply disagree with the notion that shyvana can begin zoning singed at level 2, let alone securing a kill with ignite flash. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
I've been opening Boots+pots every game but then I can't decide if I like double GP10 or RoA better for my early game build. If I rush RoA then I skip the gp10 but if I get the gp10 I skip the RoA. Which route is better on singed or is it matchup dependent? Would there be any reason to do both? | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
And since you are very good at farming, you don't really need gp10. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:51 Antyee wrote: You need catalyst to be able to lane imo. And since you are very good at farming, you don't really need gp10. One game I farmed so well in singed, i went cata into double gp5 and still managed RoA before 20. felt like a god. Rev + randuins just so good on him too | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I guess I can see his point, getting the godlike utility from rylai poison trail as soon as possible, but I don't really like it compared to rushing RoA. You get your useful stats a bit later, but if you get the RoA early once charged you're sitting on so much gold value per slot. I guess I could see him arguing that since RoA takes 10 minutes to charge, might as well build gp5, sell it 10 minutes later and sit on a lot of gold too. | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:15 arb wrote: One game I farmed so well in singed, i went cata into double gp5 and still managed RoA before 20. felt like a god. Rev + randuins just so good on him too With the HoG nerf, I'd rather get a Kage's and fling all day for terrible damage. You have more than enough HP due to your passive anyway, and I like DFG too much for the extra CDR and that extra bit of damage can cripple carries quite easily. But I think that's more than a play-style type of choice. I rarely get more armor than a Tabi+Chain Vest (building into a 5th item Zhonya's for ultimate trolling; or Sunfire if I want to be more manmode). | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
So the consensus is that if you can farm easily just go for the RoA and if you can't free farm then build gp10. But then some people say why not just do both and super farm? Would this harm your mid game too much? And I don't think I'll ever buy doran's shield on singed but just for the sake of discussion does anybody build 1-2 early against heavy AD (Riven)? I would imagine that philo would give better sustain in lane. | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
And as I said getting it and DFG is rather a personal preference as general advice. I just like CDR a lot. If you can't freefarm, you shouldn't have firstpicked Singed  I tend to get 2 cloth armors vs riven. I have never really felt like needing dshield. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
My Conclusion: Going back to RoA after starting boots and if I need early defense buy cloth/mantle since you'll use it later anyway. Only going to buy gp10 items if I'm behind from ganks or against hard lanes like kayle/lulu and having trouble farming. Building gp10 items doesn't give the synergy with your passive that RoA does and you lose the damage boost as well, plus it gives sustain. | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
Yep, I think the conclusion should be fine, but I'd be happier if someone more relevant would also agree with it. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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