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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
ZvP still broken MU with just versatility, no real steady style for zerg, just luck based timing. And P spamming 3 bases blink/sentry everyday without any real counter for zerg. LOTV : Adept nerf :sould be done for months. Ravager : back to useless. ZvZ : back to stupid turtle lurker war No nerf to liberator lol, but buff raven. Nothing about mass carrier. Overfall it's a huge buff to terran with the adept nerf, seem to be the way of DK releasing SC2 games : make Terran OP at the beginning... | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On September 26 2015 08:36 Spyridon wrote: How to solve the problem? Do what is best for the overall game design. That's the game designers job - to give us the most well designed game they are capable of. If you look at my earlier post, I give specific examples of them not only failing to do this, but they decided to go with an option that according to their own words was an inferior design. Let me repeat that for you. According to their own words the lead designers went with inferior design because of the perception of some of the community. How could you defend that? They are failing to do their job... and their reason is "perception"... not even something real or tangible or good for the game. But simply because of false beliefs!! And now they are switching up and claiming it is what they believe is best for the game? It's too late for that PR bullshit lie. We already have it in writing that David Kim stated this is an inferior design. We already have it in writing that the choice was between the best design of the game or removing a mechanic players have "practiced". We have proof from his own words that his statement is a lie. Which exposes the true reason for this. The fact that they decided to release the game so soon when it was not ready for a release so soon. Now they have to give up on all the changes they were in the middle of, and all of the changes they said they were happy only 1 month ago, because there is not enough time to rebalance & test & get past QA in a month and a half until release... Another problem is who are they exactly designing the game for? If you notice during the Depth of Micro discussion, their arguments were "People won't be able to notice those plays" They are focusing on the twitch viewer rather than the player who will actually play the fucking game. Viewers enjoy seeing oracles and worker harassment, but the player who is getting his workers burned like that hates it. But screw it, we are not here for the fun of the player, we are here to introduce a show to entertain the viewer. Unless this philosophy changes we will keep seeing horrible designs like the economy / unit clumping /... etc | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
either starbow or some other mod it will be | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 26 2015 15:12 summerloud wrote: i stopped caring two patches ago. the only reason i didnt cancel my pre-order is that i want lotv for the campaign and for modding. either starbow or some other mod it will be I honestly gave up on the LotV direction after todays update. I would be down for mods but theres issues with that... The main issue with mods like Starbow is no matchmaking... I would be down for a mod if there was actual matchmaking/ladder. Maybe the thing we should be looking in to for community projects like this is a matchmaking system. I know Blizz does not approve if your mess with the client, but could possibly attempt to match players up outside of game and use something like replay analysis to log results/rankings? | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
YOU'RE A DAMN LIAR DAVID KIM These updates are bullshit now, plain and simple | ||
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nubHunter
Spain44 Posts
On September 26 2015 06:21 [PkF] Wire wrote: 1) A balance patch before Blizzcon doesn't seem needed at all. HotS is overall a fine game.. learn to read, bs. it is not a balance patch. | ||
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fenix404
United States305 Posts
i just want more out of the 1v1 multiplayer than it seems like they do. i think we can all handle more than 2 units. i think we need many more things still missing from brood war. look at what was added as we went along: hellbat, viper (defilier), swarmhost (to be a non-lurker lurker), lurker, liberator is valkyrie... we need maelstrom and lockdown and irradiate which now zerg has for some reason. dark swarm is a better spell than blinding cloud for both players, but that would require miss chance. we see shield batteries and possible dark archons and corsairs and reavers all in the previews, as if they will be all over the campaign. the goliath is even in the campaign since WoL and they have to give us the cyclone, which does the same thing, except it is stronger vs ground, which makes it look too versatile. but zerg gets the lurker? the liberator is a prime example of how there are gaping holes in some of the roles within the units. the liberator's role was given to every race in BW, and clearly terran's was missing. mealstrom and lockdown and shield battery are very important to this game. most importantly, i feel, is miss chance. dota 2 is not suffering or losing casuals. dota 2 has a better high ground mechanic that starcraft 2. that is a sad situation. starcraft 2's high-ground advantage is exactly that of league of legends and heroes of the storm. that is most disappointing. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 26 2015 06:55 -NegativeZero- wrote: so which side do you think it was skewed toward? because i definitely saw a lot of people fighting for both opinions, on here and on reddit. The polls were pretty clear. | ||
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fenix404
United States305 Posts
On September 26 2015 11:37 AgamemnonSC2 wrote: Ok, sorry. I just hate being told: "We heard what you wanted, thank you for your feedback. Here is the Peach that you have requested." Meanwhile, we have been screaming: "GIVE ME A F'N ORANGE PLEASE!!!!' but this one is also orange, with a little red! isn't that an exciting and drastic change? btw this is all the fruit i can sell you. this specific kind only. if you want another kind of fruit, one of my guys might have and orchard of it, but they'll have to go get it for you. if not, you'll have to grow it yourself... oh and nobody else sells fruit anymore except me. it's all just vegetables and seafood. so who's with me, let's make a starbow-like real sc2 we all wanted within DotA 2. the grandfather of glorified custom gaming can only have a destiny that mirrors it's own birth... we will make the custom starcraft game of the future... inside of DotA 2. | ||
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Jj_82
Swaziland419 Posts
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
Community summit was a big promotional act, yet I tried to believe and get my hopes up, but looking of what this game has become... Sorry to say, but looking at the different stages of this beta, LotV has become more dissapointing week by week. I really liked the community updates and it's probably my own fault to think the way Blizzard handles things was gonna change, but I think I'll stay with HotS till release, as it's more fun to play, maybe they could give HotS players automated tournaments with the upcoming patch, cause that is what I've enjoyed the most in beta so far. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
That HOTS was a total mess when it first came out, and through the Koreans giving us an actual metagame and multiple balance patches has stabilized into an awesome and balanced RTS. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
The polls... And how many people voted in the polls ? Last time I checked it was few hundreds... This hardly represents a majority. | ||
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DaMaze
11 Posts
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Horiken
Japan68 Posts
GJ Blizzard,I respect your decision. BTW idk why everyone says "community want macro mechanics to be removed". At least I'm not,and when MM removal patch was out,a lot of community player complained about MM removal,especially Zerg/Terran player. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On September 26 2015 09:16 avilo wrote: Gotta love the people that still don't understand mathematics and economy. "Mule hammer" aka Terran dropping mules at distant bases is 100% necessary to be in play versus chrono/larva inject and it's simply the race's game mechanic. Zerg are imba with insta remaxes late game, 19 larva per hatch, but it's not really an "issue" like a few people try and say. It's simply the way the game fundamentally is and it's fine and even fun in a way. Protoss are imba with late game mass warp-ins from gateways/warp prisms, and chrono is imba allowing mega fast upgrades from Protoss...but it's their defining mechanic and there's honestly nothing wrong with it either. It works quite well. Terran are imba with late game "suiciding SCVS" and mass mule drops for econ...AT FIRST GLANCE. But then people that can logically analyze the mathematics of larva inject/chrono realize Terran is only staying approximately even with the other races in economy late game, especially once bases spread out far on the map. T has always had the weakest late game units, and people also forget in mega late game both P and Z end up suiciding workers just the same as T does . Yes that's right, the other races do it too in mega late game via turning drones into mass spine/spore, and P does the same suiciding Probes in mega late game for that huge deathball. "Mule hammer" on distant bases barely keeps Terran even with the other races the longer the game goes because the other races still have larva inject/chrono the longer the game goes for worker production. There is nothing wrong with that. People just try and say it's bad because they have huge racial bias instead of looking at the math on how all 3 races operate, or understanding how all 3 races operate late game. I have played all 3 races at a high level myself and never had an issue with "mule hammers" when off racing vs Terran. This is just a noob player complaint imo @_@ I honestly think people that are still making a big hoopla about macro mechanics for or against...really what you want are big changes to SC2 gameplay to keep the metagame fresh and changing more often, as well as more frequent patches to both balance and things like unit design/abilities. To be absolutely honest - absolutely not one of you or myself gives a flying fuck about economy changes nor ever will. I don't wake up in the middle of the night having nightmares of income graphs and being unable to load up a game of SC2 because of them ROFL. What you guys do give a fuck about are awesome gameplay mechanics, units that are fun and rewarding to use, and a metagame that does not sit static for 6+ months at a time in professional play. What most of you guys want is to not see the same 1 rax reaper FE into 3 rax bio into double medivac into 3 base into SCV pull or into same exact thing every goddamn game. Same goes for other races. And the way that changes is with constant patching to balance/gameplay, not with some idiotic poorly thought out mass gutting of macro mechanics and economy.  I've never seen P or Z sacrificing probes/drones except when the map starts to be mined out which pretty much happens once in a blue moon. T always do it from 3rd or 4th base and on. WTH are you talking about? I don't think it is fair to assume that Z doing it to bypass the 200 pop limitation is the same since they are effectively paying building (or their cancellation) to do it. T has free active income without workers unlike the other races. Stop bullshitting you way around. And then we may discuss if this is an issue, an OK race design or whatever (I personnaly don't think it is an issue, but man does it anger me to read such bs even coming from you). Nope T does not have the weakest late game units. On the contrary, the fact that mech can kinda still stand despite the slug pace of its production proves how strong it is. The "issue" of T -if that is worth calling it an issue- is production capability. Lategame T can never produce as fast as the other races, P has almost the same issue with non-gateway units except Chronoboost somewhat saves the day. You sure seem to struggle with bias and math for someone who mocks others for it. I don't know maybe we could have a lategame upgrade which allows SCVs to be assigned to factories/starports to have them build faster. That way T has a way out to build faster in lategame and they are still forced to keep their SCVs and Mule hammer is still there for people who likes it. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9362 Posts
Another problem is who are they exactly designing the game for? If you notice during the Depth of Micro discussion, their arguments were "People won't be able to notice those plays" They are focusing on the twitch viewer rather than the player who will actually play the fucking game. Viewers enjoy seeing oracles and worker harassment, but the player who is getting his workers burned like that hates it. Yeh this is exactly why I have been saying for a while how David Kim doesn't understand what his job actually is. His job isn't to create the most "fun to watch game". His job is to create a game that is fun to play. The esport-side of the equation should be viewed as marketing for the actual product (playing the game). The main priority should thus always be to make a game that is fun to play and the secondary objective is to make a game that is fun to watch. But even then, I don't think Oracles are fun at all to watch. Moving shot is a ton more exciting, but David Kim also misunderstood the depth of micro suggestions by Lalush on several levels. Since then he has at least acknowledged this by fixing the bug that made air units not have proper moving shot. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On September 26 2015 16:10 nubHunter wrote: learn to read, bs. it is not a balance patch. The patch won't have any balance changes in it, but we are separately trying to decide if the current Balance update test map is needed before Blizzcon. For now, it's looking like the game is in a good enough state where the better player wins matches rather than players winning due to racial strength, but we'll keep a close watch on it to make sure we make the right call. = we're not pushing out a patch now, but we may before Blizzcon. I just said I think this wouldn't be a good idea. Who needs to learn to read now ? | ||
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