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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On September 26 2015 19:22 Horiken wrote: BTW idk why everyone says "community want macro mechanics to be removed". Cause everyone -as you mentioned- says that they want MM to be removed. Also, many Z&T players complained because of the balance, not of the removed MM. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 26 2015 17:51 jpg06051992 wrote: As much as I'm kind of disappointed with the last couple of updates, I feel that everyone who is screaming "Now I won't play go burn in Hell David" need to remember.. That HOTS was a total mess when it first came out, and through the Koreans giving us an actual metagame and multiple balance patches has stabilized into an awesome and balanced RTS. HotS was infinitely more balanced and solid at release. Granted hellbats and widow mines were strong, but I remember having an awesome time in the first months of HotS. LotV on the other hand... Things like bastardized macro mechanics, awkward warpgate change, useless new units and attacker advantage (warp prism or invincible Nydus) won't change overnight. And I didn't even mention the overwheming balance concerns. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16089 Posts
On September 26 2015 19:40 Hider wrote: Yeh this is exactly why I have been saying for a while how David Kim doesn't understand what his job actually is. His job isn't to create the most "fun to watch game". His job is to create a game that is fun to play. The esport-side of the equation should be viewed as marketing for the actual product (playing the game). The main priority should thus always be to make a game that is fun to play and the secondary objective is to make a game that is fun to watch. But even then, I don't think Oracles are fun at all to watch. Moving shot is a ton more exciting, but David Kim also misunderstood the depth of micro suggestions by Lalush on several levels. Since then he has at least acknowledged this by fixing the bug that made air units not have proper moving shot. what is fun to play and to watch is often the same. Things like BL/infestor, blink era, swarmhosts, oracles etc are both horrible to watch and to play while tvz bio mine vs ling bane muta is extremely fun to play and to watch. I can't think of a single thing in the game that is fun to watch but not to play. | ||
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chillaful
Germany25 Posts
Chrono: Back to HotS, good players that take care of their energy and spend it consistantly should get an advantage because of their better macro. Larva: My idea is to introduce a function for queens that make u choose between auto inject and manual inject (the ability can be choosen like autorepair for SCVs). If you choose auto inject, the queen injects for example every minute, but if you choose manual inject you have to inject by your own, but queens can inject every 30 seconds. The result is that players with good macro should get a benefit because they invest a lot of APM into injects (which isnt that easy) and players with a bad macro and low APM shouldnt have a hard time. Instead of having no injects, they can take the auto inject ability, they wont have a lot of larva but they wont be overwhelmed. Beginners wont have a hard time and good players will still get a benefit for their investment of APM into macro. Adepts: The unit requires no brain currently, you basically build adepts vs EVERY ground unit. Nerfing the damage of adepts is a must, that needs to happen asap. | ||
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 26 2015 21:03 BlackCompany wrote: If they really hit a balance patch for HotS just before Blizzcon then i give up on SC2. That's the most retarded idea ever The swarm host one hit during WCS/GSL season. hitting before blizzcon would be very careful by comparison... | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 26 2015 21:03 BlackCompany wrote: If they really hit a balance patch for HotS just before Blizzcon then i give up on SC2. That's the most retarded idea ever Why? If the players have enough time to play on the blizzcon patch i don't see a problem (i am not saying that we NEED a patch) | ||
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
On September 26 2015 21:10 The_Red_Viper wrote: Why? If the players have enough time to play on the blizzcon patch i don't see a problem (i am not saying that we NEED a patch) If they give them enough time it could be okay (altough i would prefer if they didn't) but since they haven't even decided if they want to do a patch i can see this taking some time. On September 26 2015 21:07 Big J wrote: The swarm host one hit during WCS/GSL season. hitting before blizzcon would be very careful by comparison... Oh yeah that one was fun too | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
kinda glad it releases soon as its pretty obvious they won't do any more major changes. Im looking forward to completing the campaign and watching a few major. Its just sad. I hope some great RTS from another company will release in the next years. I really like the genre | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 26 2015 22:12 weikor wrote: Meh... kinda glad it releases soon as its pretty obvious they won't do any more major changes. Im looking forward to completing the campaign and watching a few major. Its just sad. I hope some great RTS from another company will release in the next years. I really like the genre I still have hope for Atlas, even though i don't know much about it, but Day9 > Blizzard :D | ||
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Nabukadnezar
Romania30 Posts
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Little-Chimp
Canada951 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 26 2015 22:45 Little-Chimp wrote: The macro mechanics are here to stay, and while I think none at all was better, this is good too. I say let's change chrono back to HOTS and get moving with some balance changes. yeah I think that's the best solution given how little time we're given. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
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i_am_Nite
Russian Federation66 Posts
Let players to bouild workers and collect minerals with them. That's make resourses highly valuable - players must invest them into workers to get them back later. Not just MULE, MULE, MULE for nothing. Just rebalance starting production and unit's stats. Also remove extra depot - it's design creepled too. Let players build hatcheries for larva. Morph extra drones? Morph lingz/queen? Morph Hatchery? Make players to decide. Just improve static defence or unit's stats. Let them build fast forges for upgrades etc. Later blink? Later colossus? Just balance around it. If it's needed. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 26 2015 22:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: I still have hope for Atlas, even though i don't know much about it, but Day9 > Blizzard :D Atlas is going to be amazing and genre-revolutionizing if only half of their ambitions work out. sad that we dont hear about it these days. | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
On September 26 2015 20:31 chillaful wrote: Mules: The problem would be solved if for example only 3 mules are allowed to be on the map. When they die u can call max. 3 mules again, but never more. It would prevent the known "mule hammer" where u call 10 mules and get a huge economy boost (you theoretically "only" have a 15 worker advantage and terran finally has to watch out for their energy to spend it consistantly like chrono for protoss in HotS). Chrono: Back to HotS, good players that take care of their energy and spend it consistantly should get an advantage because of their better macro. Larva: My idea is to introduce a function for queens that make u choose between auto inject and manual inject (the ability can be choosen like autorepair for SCVs). If you choose auto inject, the queen injects for example every minute, but if you choose manual inject you have to inject by your own, but queens can inject every 30 seconds. The result is that players with good macro should get a benefit because they invest a lot of APM into injects (which isnt that easy) and players with a bad macro and low APM shouldnt have a hard time. Instead of having no injects, they can take the auto inject ability, they wont have a lot of larva but they wont be overwhelmed. Beginners wont have a hard time and good players will still get a benefit for their investment of APM into macro. Adepts: The unit requires no brain currently, you basically build adepts vs EVERY ground unit. Nerfing the damage of adepts is a must, that needs to happen asap. No, that breaks mules again and thus Terran, and thus leads to rebalancing CB and injects. Not going to happen. Mules are essential for recovery. If mid to late game as Z I lose a lot of drones then IF I have the minerals and IF I have the larva I can pop 20 or more new workers. As T, IF I have energy I can call down at most 3 Mules and then slowly build new workers one at a time from each CC? And if I have 4 or 5 CCs, do I just spam scans and call down depots? It removes the tension of whether to mule or scan. A limit to the number of mules per base, or a reduction in efficiency when there are many, or a limit to the call down radius, or a mule must return to the CC that it was called down from would be better. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3710 Posts
Macro Mechanics Thank you for your participation and feedback yet again throughout this week. Making a decision in this area is probably the most difficult choice we've ever faced during Starcraft II’s development. Now this is where it becomes quite obvious that this hole "macro mechanics" stuff was just bullshit to buy time until the beta is over. We all know that this is the final expansion and we all know that changes after that will almost exclusively on tuning balance. So rather than say rip of protoss bandages like PO and FF and actually redesign protoss early game, they decided to test some stuff, realize that they would have to rebalance vast majoritys of the game without these mechanics (especially terran) and just went back to hots for the most part. Now that seems like the perfect way to burn through the final month of design changes to me. At least they are still looking to nerf mules, I'd prefer to see them removed but that seems to be off the table until starcraft 3... The reason is that if Warp Prisms were OP, they would be OP no matter what unit is warped-in. This on the other hand is just painful to read. You know you guys had me back when you made inject manual again so I can actually have fun playing zerg again, but this sentence seems like something a kid from elementary school would write. Maybe Blizzard should pay for some logic classes for dk and his team. This is not how it works at all and makes me question their qualification for their jobs once again. Of course it's not OP when you warp in any unit, you could have instant warp ins add a discount and quicker cool down and it wouldn't be OP with all unist. Warping 10 sentries into your opponents base will always be suck unless you block a ramp. In all seriousness, 2 sec warp ins need to be adjusted. I'd personally just give warp prisms something in between 2 and 16 to maintain their role as the new proxy pylon as the old one needs a gate to be viable now, but having 3 different warp in times is probably something they look upon as too complicated (you know like putting tournament maps into the ladder pool was back in 2011...). So I'd either give the warp prism 16 second warp ins by default and add an upgrade to buff warp in speed (feel free to combine this with the speed upgrade if you wish), or make phase mode or w/e the warp in mode is called an upgrade so the warp prism acts like a shuttle early game and becomes a proxy pylon later on. Obviously adepts will have to be nerfed as well. And I'm saying actually nerfed, not the bullshit you did with the marauder where you buffed/adjusted other areas to compensate. Changing it to armored is not the solution. Almost all protoss units are armored already and I don't think there needs to be another unit that gets crushed by marauders. Nerf the adept both in hp and damage and replace the shield upgrade with a damage/attack speed/range upgrade and we should be good. While you are at it, I like the idea of giving stalkers some sort of templar archive upgrade that boost their damage/attack speed/range to make them less awful in the lategame, you could even combine it with an upgrade for adepts. SC2 already lacks upgrades imo, especially protoss and the templar archive only has 1 upgrade anyway. Ghost/Raven buff seems fine, I personally got very exited when Flash build a Raven to clear creep at the end of wol and I'd be sick to see that become the standard. Ghost buff is also fine. Another sad part about this is their 3.0 "preview". I'd imagine this is the one where they change the UI and hopefully implement any form of skinning. As lotv is the final expansion I'd hope for them that they'll implement some form of micro transactions, at least if they want to ever make any cash from sc2 again. Even skins for the ingame ui would be fine, unit sounds are also a thing that's very easy to implement (given I used to play with bw unit sounds before 1.5). Skins would be best, but they seem to stick to their bullshit excuse. Just add a graphic setting called "disable unit skins" for players with low-end hardware and there is no excuse to not implement skins. But instead of talking about any of that, or at least showing a screenshot of the new main menu, you tell us that FFA matchmaking will be removed. WOW! | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
Seriously, I have nearly 200 games on my steam account now (damn sales) but only regularly play SC2. If the game does not suck then I would happily spend 100 or more bucks on skinning all my shit. | ||
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