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Hey again everyone. We’re back with a brief update from David Kim on a few of the topics that we saw discussed this week, and also to give you a few details on our big upcoming patch!
3.0 Update to HotS
First, we want to talk about the next major patch coming into HotS. It's the major preparation patch that is happening for Legacy of the Void. The patch won't have any balance changes in it, but we are separately trying to decide if the current Balance update test map is needed before Blizzcon. For now, it's looking like the game is in a good enough state where the better player wins matches rather than players winning due to racial strength, but we'll keep a close watch on it to make sure we make the right call.
We are currently working on a list of detailed improvements that will be included with this last major patch for Heart of the Swarm, but we wanted to update you guys on one of the changes now - we will be removing the FFA matchmaking queue from this patch onwards. The reason is quite simple: not enough players have been interested in playing this mode, and so the matchmaking in the FFA queue isn't working properly. Due to the low participation, it's pretty much just random match making like custom games. We don't feel the need to have a matchmaker for a format that doesn't provide much of an improvement in terms of quality of experience compared to custom games. The few players who do play FFA on a regular basis should be able to have a similar quality experience through custom games.
Macro Mechanics
Thank you for your participation and feedback yet again throughout this week. Making a decision in this area is probably the most difficult choice we've ever faced during Starcraft II’s development. Both the community and our development team members have had an evenly split opinion on the topic, and no matter which way we go, there will be an equal number of players that are for and against the decision. Because of this, we believe it's important to do what's best for the game in this situation, rather than going for a change that everyone wants, because clearly, there's not even close to a consensus on this topic.
With that said, let's talk about where we're at currently in the beta. We like the fact that the current version for Protoss and Zerg keeps the game as difficult as possible for the highest level players out there, while it reduces the clicks and attention needed for everyone else. The Terran’s MULE was clearly the easiest to execute of the three races, and we are noticing there's really not a huge difference in terms of difficulty of execution whether the MULE is automated or not across most skill levels. However, we definitely don't want to lose the interesting strategic choices throughout the Terran game of having to decide between more minerals vs. scouting advantage. We'd like to also to let you know that we will continue to explore potential solutions for late game mass MULE dropping.
Of what we've tried so far, we believe the current version is the best version for Starcraft II, and we'd like to make the decision between this and potentially reverting the changes to HotS. Our team is leaning towards keeping this version right now, but we would love to hear your feedback before making the final decision.
Regarding Protoss and Zerg, the main worry for Protoss is whether the current change is a side-grade and if the old version plays better or not. The main worry for Zerg right now is if the current version makes the game easier at the highest skill level, even though it currently looks like this is most likely a non-issue. Please focus your feedback around these two main points this week, so that we can together make the right decision for the game.
Adept
We definitely heard your feedback and we agree that Adepts warping-in during the early game using Warp Prisms against Terran in the current state is probably too much. However, there has been mixed feedback in terms of whether Adepts are the issue, Warp Prisms are the issue, or both.
With what we know so far, Adepts are most likely the issue. The reason is that if Warp Prisms were OP, they would be OP no matter what unit is warped-in. However, we only see a huge amount of strength with Adept warp-ins. We discussed this topic with many higher level players in the beta this week, and there looks to be a consensus in this thought process. We also don't want to be too quick to judge on new strategy/unit nerfs like this one, because it is often the case that what's new can initially look too powerful. We will first try out a nerf with the Adept, and reevaluate the Warp Prism after trying out the Adept changes.
Therefore, we'd like to do an early game change to the Adept first, and then evaluate the strategy after that. We're currently thinking of either lowering the health of the Adept (if it's just a numbers issue), or changing the Adept's flag to armored (if it turns out to be the case that Terran not having a counter to the Adept at that stage of the game is an issue). We're also continuing to test different stat upgrades for the Adept to replace the current upgrade, so we'll keep you updated on the progress of this going forward as well. We'd like to aim for the next balance update to include this change.
Corruptor
We've decided to not go forward with the change which allowed the Corruptor's ability to be used against units instead of structures.
The main difficulty for this unit was how we wanted an ability that's not powerful for cost, but feels powerful in very specific situations only due to how good the unit is against various air threats. What's currently in the beta looks to be the best recycle for the Corruptor, and it clearly provides awesome, cool moments that make the Corruptor look extremely powerful. At the same time, we don't see players building Corruptors when no counter units are in play, meaning the balance of the ability is most likely in a good spot as well.
We've explored many abilities for this slot, and nothing seems to be nearly as good as the current one in the beta right now.
Ravager Upgrade
The new Ravager upgrade, on the other hand, is something that's not working out well during beta testing. Like many of you have pointed out, this upgrade makes it quite difficult for Terran players to go into mech play due to Ravagers now countering large numbers of mech units. We believe the Ravager without the range upgrade is better for the game because it's much cooler for Zerg players to have to pick and choose the right locations to attack into with Ravagers, and then having to tech switch into a different approach if the Siege Tank/Liberator counts get too high. As things currently are however, Ravagers simply counter Mech play no matter the sizes of the armies.
We also don't like the changed relationship against Lurker lines. Lurkers seem very difficult to use now due to how much the Ravager ability out ranges the Lurker. It was much better when their ranges were equal. We would like to remove this upgrade in the next balance update.
Ghost Snipe Buff
We agree with you guys in that this ability needs to be tuned up in cost-effectiveness, and we'll be looking into it.
Raven Movement Speed Buff
We also agree with the suggestion to increase Raven movement speed, especially in TvZ. The increased rate at which creep spreads and recedes both look to be very fun changes to the game. One issue for Terran, however, is that in the later stages of the game it's too difficult to get the interaction we're looking for of creep constantly going away and being re-spread. A Raven movement speed buff sounds like it could do the trick in terms of getting this cool factor back into the game.
Thanks for all your input and suggestions so far – and be sure to let us know what you think of the questions and topics we posed here. We’re looking forward to reading your thoughts, and we hope you enjoy the additions to come with patch 3.0!
EDIT: Included the source at the top.
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1) A balance patch before Blizzcon doesn't seem needed at all. HotS is overall a fine game.
2) New chrono is retarded and not at all an improvement over HotS. Revert back to HotS.
3) At least you're aware adepts are a problem. But I think warp prism play will have to be toned down too. Did you think about, I don't know, splitting warp-in and energy power and getting back to 5 sec warp-ins ?
4) Agree on the ravager upgrade diagnosis.
5) Ghost and ravens minor buffs : why not.
Overall a pretty underwhelming patch though. Release is coming so fast and now I feel we're bound to get an unfinished game.
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On September 26 2015 06:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
1) A balance patch before Blizzcon doesn't seem needed at all. HotS is overall a fine game.
2) New chrono is retarded and not at all an improvement over HotS. Revert back to HotS.
3) At least you're aware adepts are a problem. But I think warp prism play will have to be toned down too. Did you think about, I don't know, splitting warp-in and energy power and getting back to 5 sec warp-ins ?
4) Agree on the ravager upgrade diagnosis.
5) Ghost and ravens minor buffs : why not.
Overall a pretty underwhelming patch though. Release is coming so fast and now I feel we're bound to get an unfinished game.
It seems to be going in more or less the right direction though. With weekly balance updates LotV could still be the most balanced of the three SC2s at release.
As far as HotS goes it seems like a new map pool might be better than a balance patch.
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I wasn't expecting much but still got disappointed. And it is hilarious how he is lying about community being split even. Not it is not, not even an elitist stronghold like TL was split even
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On September 26 2015 06:24 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 06:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
1) A balance patch before Blizzcon doesn't seem needed at all. HotS is overall a fine game.
2) New chrono is retarded and not at all an improvement over HotS. Revert back to HotS.
3) At least you're aware adepts are a problem. But I think warp prism play will have to be toned down too. Did you think about, I don't know, splitting warp-in and energy power and getting back to 5 sec warp-ins ?
4) Agree on the ravager upgrade diagnosis.
5) Ghost and ravens minor buffs : why not.
Overall a pretty underwhelming patch though. Release is coming so fast and now I feel we're bound to get an unfinished game. It seems to be going in more or less the right direction though. With weekly balance updates LotV could still be the most balanced of the three SC2s at release.
HotS was quite good at release, only widow mine and hellbat drops were problems iirc, and they were dealt with rather quickly. I don't think we'll be even close. Things got really bad in HotS after the infamous oracle patch.
As far as HotS goes it seems like a new map pool might be better than a balance patch.
Agree.
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Of what we've tried so far, we believe the current version is the best version for Starcraft II, and we'd like to make the decision between this and potentially reverting the changes to HotS. Our team is leaning towards keeping this version right now, but we would love to hear your feedback before making the final decision.
Regarding Protoss and Zerg, the main worry for Protoss is whether the current change is a side-grade and if the old version plays better or not. The main worry for Zerg right now is if the current version makes the game easier at the highest skill level, even though it currently looks like this is most likely a non-issue. Please focus your feedback around these two main points this week, so that we can together make the right decision for the game.
You want feedback, here you have it : new versions are counter-intuitive and cumbersome, especially chronoboost. Revert back to HotS with toned down power. Removal could have been great, but you made this move far too late.
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SoonTM has turned into Too Soon
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-Remove MULE hammer
-Look at LotV economy again
-Nerf Adept and Warp Prism
-Fix Forcefield
-Fix arcade and custom lobbies
This is the things that need to happen for LotV.
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In stark contrast to it's predecessors, I'm actually not angry after reading this update. Every point seems mostly reasonable.
I mean there are so many changes I'd LOVE to see that I think would make the game better. Like double harvest economy, mothership/core removal, vastly cheaper ghosts, and complete removal of all macro boosters (including inject). But at this point I'm just satisfied with the game not getting any worse.
In regards to macro mechanics; please no auto-inject. I feel like I'd be happy with pretty much anything else at this point.
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On September 26 2015 06:40 hitpoint wrote:
I mean there are so many changes I'd LOVE to see. Like double harvest economy, mothership/core removal, vastly cheaper ghosts and inject removal. But at this point I'm just satisfied with the game not getting any worse.
Wow so you've actually given up on the game getting better ? There are so many things that could be easily improved, like the warpgate change, their current bastardized macro mechanics, some of the things you mentioned...
If all we hope when patches are made is that they don't make the game worse, we should just release the game tomorrow.
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On September 26 2015 06:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 06:40 hitpoint wrote:
I mean there are so many changes I'd LOVE to see. Like double harvest economy, mothership/core removal, vastly cheaper ghosts and inject removal. But at this point I'm just satisfied with the game not getting any worse.
Wow so you've actually given up on the game getting better ? There are so many things that could be easily improved, like the warpgate change, their current bastardized macro mechanics, some of the things you mentioned...
Yes absolutely. I have completely given up on that dream. It doesn't matter how easy the fixes are. It just feels like a pipe-dream at this point, I'm sad to say.
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I just wish they hadn't ruled out the no-macro mechanics option.
That said, I think the current version for terran and zerg will do, chrono should go back to HoTS however.
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On September 26 2015 06:45 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 06:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 26 2015 06:40 hitpoint wrote:
I mean there are so many changes I'd LOVE to see. Like double harvest economy, mothership/core removal, vastly cheaper ghosts and inject removal. But at this point I'm just satisfied with the game not getting any worse.
Wow so you've actually given up on the game getting better ? There are so many things that could be easily improved, like the warpgate change, their current bastardized macro mechanics, some of the things you mentioned... Yes absolutely. I have completely given up on that dream. It doesn't matter how easy the fixes are. It just feels like a pipe-dream at this point, I'm sad to say.
That's sad man. I still have a glimmer of hope, even though with release coming closer and closer and meaningful patches indeed not bringing much, that glimmer gets fainter every day. 
On September 26 2015 06:47 TheDougler wrote:
I just wish they hadn't ruled out the no-macro mechanics option.
That said, I think the current version for terran and zerg will do, chrono should go back to HoTS however.
yeah the versions for T and Z look okay enough I'd say, but chrono is definitely not an improvement over HotS.
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I think they're making a huge mistake by not having as radical a shakeup with macro boosters (they ought to clarify their rhetoric, they're conflating the boosters with the whole of macro).
But they've backed themselves into corners with the ridiculous "make game hard for pros" talk.
Macro in general, too.
What's that about harassment being nerfed the reason for not switching to the obviously superior DH8 or what have you?
Good universal design is more important a fun factor than good balance; I don't care if it'd take a while.
Oh well. Vote with my wallet as it were. Unless, of course, they make design / balance mods with automatch and ladders front and center competitors to standard automatch within the game. That'd be like admitting failure, though.
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I don't feel like the current form of injects is at all an improvement over the system in HotS. Frankly I'm shocked that this isn't being altered again for the next patch.
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On September 26 2015 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:
I wasn't expecting much but still got disappointed. And it is hilarious how he is lying about community being split even. Not it is not, not even an elitist stronghold like TL was split even
so which side do you think it was skewed toward? because i definitely saw a lot of people fighting for both opinions, on here and on reddit.
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Definitely prefer the new Chrono over the old and the new stacking larva inject over the old.
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Economy please, economy, why are you so stubborn David, why? Why? Why?
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On September 26 2015 06:57 Espartaquen wrote:
Economy please, economy, why are you so stubborn David, why? Why? Why?
no more time. Give up on that, they're not changing the eco. I think sadly they think their warpgate change is great too.
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On September 26 2015 06:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
-Remove MULE hammer
-Look at LotV economy again
-Nerf Adept and Warp Prism
-Fix Forcefield
-Fix arcade and custom lobbies
This is the things that need to happen for LotV.
arcade and custom lobbies... even FF had been an issue since WOL, i lost my hope on those a long time ago T_T
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EPT
