EPT1) Injects are automated with 2-3 larva per inject
2) Injects are completely removed
3) the inject mechanic stays like in HotS, but is nerfed to 2-3 larva
Community Feedback Update - September 10 - Page 5
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
1) Injects are automated with 2-3 larva per inject 2) Injects are completely removed 3) the inject mechanic stays like in HotS, but is nerfed to 2-3 larva | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3559 Posts
I'm more for HotS macro mechanics if they make Chrono Boost&Inject stack* along with weakening all of them together. To either the strength of 2 larvae of 3 larvae. Mule's strength gets closer to supply drop and that of scan and there's more decision to be made, Chrono gets easier and was always a good macro mechanic from the start. I think it's incredibly important to be consistent with your design goals. Go with either this method or go that of the *NEW* Chrono Boost. Inject can be made the same, do you realize this? Queen can channel Inject untill given a new order. Mule cannot be changed to be the same way, but Mule was never THAT hard to begin with. Chrono Target: Should act as if there's a never ending cooldown untill you've ordered all of your Nexus in your control group to a target. This is super hard to explain, but basically when you change a Chrono target from the Nexus, it should wait in line in queue untill you've been through all of your Nexi. Another way to say it is, the one Nexus that I forgot about, should change target  | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
It's actually not a very bad idea, but a strange one nonetheless. Making extra Queens is an investment, just as extra Hatches are in the current auto-inject system. The difference here is that you can still be almost perfect if you hit your injects well without having to invest into extra Queens. This would allow good players to truly shine with their injects, while lesser players could go for more Queens instead. Not all that bad in theory, but I fear it would feel a little complicated to some. Also, since the best possible method would still be hitting your injects sharply, I think few players would actually use this possibility. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:06 Big J wrote: Ultimately I hope blizzard settles on one of the following designs: 1) Injects are automated with 2-3 larva per inject 2) Injects are completely removed 3) the inject mechanic stays like in HotS, but is nerfed to 2-3 larva I hope they keep similar mechanics to the ones we have in HotS, but toned down quite a bit so that 1) missing them is less unforgiving 2) they match the pace of the game (and especially the economy) better. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:10 [PkF] Wire wrote: I hope they keep similar mechanics to the ones we have in HotS, but toned down quite a bit so that 1) missing them is less unforgiving 2) they match the pace of the game (and especially the economy) better. Well, the last thing I want is to replace inject with a different form of inject that is mechanically similar, yet I have to learn it anew. But yeah, the toning down has always been a major part of what I liked about the original changes. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
As we’ve done multiple times in the past, we definitely know that if a map isn’t completely standard, a majority of players will initially think it’s a bad map. However, this is one of the areas that we would really like to push back because the positive effects of having a more diverse map pool is just too good for the game. We see this in HotS season 3 and even more so in the various tournaments going on in LotV, in terms of how different each map plays. all I see is coda/cactus/terraform or iron fortress played in every bo3 | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:13 DERASTAT wrote: Please dont make injekt stackable, i dont wonna have 3 Queens per Hatch That's not how it works, theres been like 10 descriptions through the pages on how it works. | ||
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MyrionSC
Denmark140 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:13 DERASTAT wrote: Please dont make injekt stackable, i dont wonna have 3 Queens per Hatch On September 11 2015 05:12 Tenks wrote: I think the weirdest part about stacking inject is since most Zergs make extra queens for spreading creep those can lay down some tumors then retreat to be extra larva injecters. So now the Zerg who was previously running off 2 bases and a queen is running on the larvae of effectively 3. Not saying it is wrong or broken just possibly something to consider. That is not how it works, read the changes again, you do not stack them, you QUEUE them. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:14 Charoisaur wrote: all I see is coda/cactus/terraform or iron fortress played in every bo3 yeah, whereas we would get real variety and strategic choices with 7 solid good maps. | ||
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:12 Big J wrote: Well, the last thing I want is to replace inject with a different form of inject that is mechanically similar, yet I have to learn it anew. But yeah, the toning down has always been a major part of what I liked about the original changes. Toning down is the only thing I liked, Toning the speed of the game down is crucial now because of the stupid 12 worker change that no one seems to realizes how awful it is for the phases of the game, we usually see the most interesting micro in low economy situations. I prefer going back to 6 workers with a DH economy but I fear that's too late to get them to push for, I still hope 12 workers will be reverted. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Before we know it minerals get buffed again, Swarm Host reverted back to siege unit and then whoops.. This is the last expansion Blizzard, it's THE time to try out stuff... Are we already at the half-assing phase that HotS had before its release? | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
I don't know why injects need to be made more forgiving. Zergs aren't the ones wallowing in bronze. The punishment for mismacro on the Protoss/Terran side is having to build more production structures to catch up. It should be similar for zerg. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:38 KeksX wrote: Already going back to HotS mechanics? Before we know it minerals get buffed again, Swarm Host reverted back to siege unit and then whoops.. This is the last expansion Blizzard, it's THE time to try out stuff... Are we already back to the half-assing phase that HotS had before it's release? I think they realized that that WAS the time to try out stuff. Balancing the game and making it suitable for competitive play isn't going to happen like that and the release date they're going to reveal is going to have them bound to it. So I think they're going to stay very safe. There is no denying those changes should have been tried at the beginning of the beta though. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On September 11 2015 04:38 Big J wrote: How do you control that? I have a 50energy queen, but I don't want to buy 1 larva for 25energy, fuck me? It's essentially a noob-trap and a punishment more than a help to anybody. You don't want to buy 2more larva 33seconds from now for a transfuse or 2 creep tumors. I am not sure you understood me well, if so I apologize for my poor writing. If you have a queen with 50 energy, you inject normally and you get the usual amount of larvas (whatever the number of larvas they decide). But the idea is that if you miss inject for a while and that you queen has 75 energy, when you inject you'll get one normal inject+1 extra larva at the additional cost of 25 energy, so the queen's energy goes back to 0. Basically it's just a way to makes missing injects cycle less punishing. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:40 [PkF] Wire wrote: I think they realized that that WAS the time to try out stuff. Balancing the game and making it suitable for competitive play isn't going to happen like that and the release date they're going to reveal is going to have them bound to it. So I think they're going to stay very safe. There is no denying those changes should have been tried at the beginning of the beta though. Thats what I'm fearing as well and I think it's the wrong approach. Design is more important than balance atm, especially with HotS being the preferred game for at least a couple of months more. I personally think LotV is not different enough from HotS at this stage, especially if they revert back the macro mechanics. It's more fun, definitely, but the higher the level of play the closer it is to HotS. | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:17 Ovid wrote: Toning down is the only thing I liked, Toning the speed of the game down is crucial now because of the stupid 12 worker change that no one seems to realizes how awful it is for the phases of the game, we usually see the most interesting micro in low economy situations. I prefer going back to 6 workers with a DH economy but I fear that's too late to get them to push for, I still hope 12 workers will be reverted. I very firmly believe that all the 12 worker start does is it cuts out the first X seconds of the game and very slightly adjusts early game timings. It does not change the economy in the big picture, and has negligible effect on the mid and even the early game. It does obviously remove some strategies such as 6 Pool and proxy Gate, etc, but other than that, it does not speed up the game and does not suddenly change low-econ situations into high-econ ones or vice versa. What does change it is the new half mineral patches, which I highly dislike, by the way. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:42 Vanadiel wrote: I am not sure you understood me well, if so I apologize for my poor writing. If you have a queen with 50 energy, you inject normally and you get the usual amount of larvas (whatever the number of larvas they decide). But the idea is that if you miss inject for a while and that you queen has 75 energy, when you inject you'll get one normal inject+1 extra larva at the additional cost of 25 energy, so the queen's energy goes back to 0. Basically it's just a way to makes missing injects cycle less punishing. I think I understood you. But do you mean like, a secondary inject-button, so you can choose between normal injects and your injects? Regardless, I think it is a noob-trap. Noone should actually use it because the other two abilities are just plainly better than 1larva for 25energy. It only makes bad players spend their energy-resource badly. | ||
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On September 11 2015 05:44 Sholip wrote: I very firmly believe that all the 12 worker start does is it cuts out the first X seconds of the game and very slightly adjusts early game timings. It does not change the economy in the big picture, and has negligible effect on the mid and even the early game. It does obviously remove some strategies such as 6 Pool and proxy Gate, etc, but other than that, it does not speed up the game and does not suddenly change low-econ situations into high-econ ones or vice versa. What does change it is the new half mineral patches, which I highly dislike, by the way. I've said a concept before in an old thread. The concept I was saying was "smooth build orders" my definition for a smooth build order is a build where you make production facilities and workers concurrently without cutting one for the other, this is what has been the economic standard in Hots. A smooth build order for zerg in lotv has 3-4 more workers than a SBO in Hots whilst maintaining the same infrastructure that's roughly 122 Minerals per minute (Hots minute) extra to be spent, it's pretty apparent that will accelerate the game. | ||
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