EPTProtoss can boost out specific units and control the direction of the game, so it's very good.
Community Feedback Update - August 28 - Page 15
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crazedrat
272 Posts
Protoss can boost out specific units and control the direction of the game, so it's very good. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On August 30 2015 02:15 Charoisaur wrote: The problem with making injects autocast is that it makes zerg production far easier than that of the other races. Protoss and terran have to constantly produce units from their production facilities while zerg could stack larvae and then make a lot of units at once. So zerg other than the other races doesn't have to make units constantly but to balance that out they had to constantly hit injects. Making inject autocast removes that burden from zerg players which completely automates their production. They don't have to worry about hitting production/inject cycles and can just make all units as once. What that means is the only thing zerg has to worry about is making workers constantly the rest is automatic. In other words: a gold/ platin zerg can max out at the same time as soO. this isn't exactly true. zerg have to produce units constantly as well, due to the fact that if you don't spend all of your larva, especially early, you don't get the 3 naturally produced larva from the hatchery. banking larva only benefits zergs later on in the game when they're already maxed. zerg production is by no means automated, you still have to do as much as a terran and protoss player, except now, you have to worry much less about hitting injects when you're dealing with multi pronged aggression and then in addition, spread creep, constantly scout, spread your overlords, etc. to say that a gold or platinum player will have a similar max out time as soO is blatantly exaggerating because there is much more to zerg macro than injecting hatcheries. that would be comparing the fact that chronoboost can be cast on your twilight council constantly to saying that protoss players can now hit the same timings as a player like naniwa who would always manually cast chrono the moment it wore off on the TC. there's so much more to macro than pressing buttons and THAT is what blizzard is trying to highlight with these changes. knowing when to drone or when to produce units is something that a gold, plat, diamond, or even masters player could never compare to when you look at players like soO. anyone that has spent significant time playing zerg knows what it's like to drone up a new expansion only to have the other player's army move out exactly as you spend all of your larva. unlike terran, we can't get those units back. unlike protoss, we can't chrono our gateways or our robos to make extra units come out faster or cast a spell that makes pushing into an under-sized army more risky. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On August 29 2015 23:28 [PkF] Wire wrote: I must be one of a kind, but I actually am a big fan of players that won because "they just had a bit more of everything". When Bomber was great he actually maxed out before anyone on the planet while harassing and keeping on upgrades and could just a-move his way through his opponents. Watching soO's queen energy during some of his GSL runs was fascinating. It seems most people see little to no merit in that kind of feats because they're not spectacular, while everyone is in awe when PartinG keeps picking up an immortal in a warp prism to rack up 80 kills. I've never been impressed the slightest by such "feats". If he does that in a two base all-in, he doesn't have any eco to manage, since he has walled his natural ramp he doesn't have to worry about a counter-attack... So he only has one task to execute, and of course he does it flawlessly, but as much as I can understand people loving it and finding it spectacular, I always thought that was one-dimensional and not very interesting. Multitask is interesting, micro is just one task and I've always thought the warp prism would have far too much micro potential in LotV to not create unstoppable 2 bases all-ins. So yeah, I'd call myself a player who favors macro over micro. But is it shocking ? I think Starcraft games are more about macro, and Warcraft games more about micro. So shouldn't it be this way ? This is why when I read that automated macro mechanics will be good for newer players because they make the game more accessible, I'm as shocked as you would be if I said I think automated marine splits would be good because it would allow players to focus on their macro, make the game more accessible and help bio that struggles in LotV. People who are really good at splitting and want to focus on that can still deactivate autosplit, huh ? Don't get me wrong, I agree macro mechanics are a problem. But I'd favor a nerf of them to make them less important so less punishing to miss for newer players, over that really inelegant automation. So I'll be vocal against these changes because I think they're really bad and hurt the game at its core for many reasons. Don't worry, you are not. I always like, as Zerg, when you had to balance between micro and injections, knowing when is the right time to do it, watching different play style as a function of how the professional zerg balance between the two. Like a Life/Leenock or even Stephano at its prime which puts much more emphasis on the control of the army, setting up a lots of banelings traps that require your constant attention, than DRG/Soo which had incredible injects/creep spread. I hate every-autocast stuff and I don't want to play this kind of game at all. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
kiwikaki + drewbie spamming chat 10 messages per second to try to make people drop (both on stream and to my team when we matched against them) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AEEsz4t.png) | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
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DeepBurrow
49 Posts
On August 30 2015 04:27 crazedrat wrote: The APM mechanics are unchanged from the current patch. Its just a community update for now. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
I think some of the arguments for it make sense. What I am a fan of is making the strategic choice to do one thing or another. For example, spread creep early game or inject is an impactful choice on strategy. Autocast mules don't offer any strategic choice, so I'm not a fan (I get the argument is for an early eco boost, but is it really that bad for terran right now? It doesn't seem so to me, but I could be wrong). Adding auto cast to protoss gives them very legitimate strategic choices, so it is a very cool option for them, but imo its really just for them and I'm not a fan of that either. Overall I'm not a fan of this patch. Seems like, "Lets take this thing away... a couple weeks later, let's now put it back." Idk, I wasn't a fan of removing macro mechanics and I haven't really played with it enough to have a good opinion on the subject, but I would like to see people have more time with it before we half-revert. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
I like how removing the mechanics affected the overall feel of the game (harass was to strong but that was what they should have tweeked) and I liked the "skill check" the mechanics gave. But now we don't have the skill check and they will still be there affecting game. I starting to find it pretty hilarious how different my and blizzards views are :p | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24236 Posts
On August 30 2015 05:48 Gullis wrote: I feel like making these things automated is taking the worst thing of both worlds. Kinda. Lower players will still feel frustrated because they won't be able to cope with the "mindless clicks" needed to spread creep or to switch the chronoboosts, while hardcore players will probably don't like the change because it takes away strategic depth and skill differentiation possibilities. I'll say it again, I was fine with the idea of balancing around a total removal, a lot more than I am with the current build. And yeah, I hate the warpgate change. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
I think overlords should be made from drones instead. That way zerg have to go back to the base and plop down an overlord egg (same size as pylon/supplydepot) like terran/protoss does. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
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Hotshot
Canada184 Posts
I think they should just keep the old mule/inject/chrono and keep this auto cast nonsense out of the game. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
All I hear is casuals this and pros that, back when DKim was in gamescom I really liked his idea (I still do btw) back then he said since LotV is a much harder and faster game than HotS (still is) he wanted to make changes to switch the focus from macro to micro and control, since LotV already had more difficulties since you had to expand earlier, defend more bases sooner and deal with more harras at all time he wanted to make things easier in some aspect and other to be harder so the same level of skill is needed in HotS but with a different focus. So I don't understand if the people that talk about casual and how pros would hate these changes either don't read/listen what DK says or if I'm the only odd one that got the message backwards. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
So here's a suggestion. Make it like widow mine: it's auto-cast in practice, but the icon isn't auto-cast, it's a passive. Happy? Or make the Orbital give a passive buff on SCVs in it's radius to mine faster. As for chrono, that needs to be removed and changed again, the new version is harder to use optimally than the old. | ||
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