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Community Feedback Update - August 28 - Page 13

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
445 CommentsPost a Reply
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rockslave
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Brazil318 Posts
August 29 2015 13:06 GMT
#241
Well, there goes the good feeling of having 10 hatcheries again.

I wish they'd just cut the macro mechanics.
What qxc said.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 13:29:45
August 29 2015 13:26 GMT
#242
STOP WITH THOSE SHITTY AUTOCASTS DAMN

The chronoboost thing sets my teeth on edge ! No ! No !!!! It doesn't even help newer players because there are situations where chronoboosting probes will be detrimental... This is downright stupid, but I guess we shouldn't expect less retardedness from DK.

Stop trying to be clever with the macro mechanics because you've already proved so many times you aren't. Keep them as they were but nerfed. Stop trying to bring your unique snowflake flavor to this game because you are ten times more incompetent than Dustin Browder and that is saying something.
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
August 29 2015 13:27 GMT
#243
I found this in other thread and represent a lot about the feeling of people who actually understand RTS as not only "microing an army"

On August 28 2015 00:34 travis wrote:
This reminds me of the difference between, say, mtg and hearthstone.
It looks like blizzard is taking this approach again.
Sc2 is the hearthstone to starcraft 1.

Why even mine resources? Why not just be given 1000 minerals and 300 gas per minute per macro building? Then you can *really* focus on just strategy.


btw, side note: I've played games that work like what I just suggested. That mechanic was always terrible.

Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3379 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 13:34:01
August 29 2015 13:30 GMT
#244
On August 29 2015 22:06 rockslave wrote:
Well, there goes the good feeling of having 10 hatcheries again.

I wish they'd just cut the macro mechanics.

I agree, since automated Inject/Mule add nothing to the game other than not needed complexity, working as an entry barrier for new players.

If you want to keep macro mechanics there are two ways to make it easier.
1) Make Inject/Chrono stackable, if a building is already Injected/Chronoed it queues up the next one, for when the other is done. Queen does Inject animation immediately, but actual timer only starts when the other timer finishes.
2) Chrono Boost approach, do the same for Inject, Queen sits and channels Inject indefinitely, increasing the spawn rate of the Hatchery, you can stop the Queen at any time.

As for the Mule, I don't think that this spell is actually made easier from this new patch. You have to be adamant about floating your CC's into range of the new Mineral Field in order for the Mule to be possible. Also no one would want to keep Muling the same Mineral Patch as it would just run out, so I think this is just a bad implemented Mule. You also removed the energy, which WAS the decision part of the Mule, in favour of just making it useless added complexity that don't add much to the game. It's pretty much as bandaid as your gonna get, simply because you don't wanna balance the game around not having the Mule, or having a nerfed Mule.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 13:40:17
August 29 2015 13:32 GMT
#245
On August 29 2015 03:36 purakushi wrote:
Bandaid after bandaid. This is what happens when the core game does not have a good foundation.

Precisely. This is getting silly.

Please please Blizzard : if it turns out at the end of the month that the version without macro mechanics or with those imbecile autocasts is not more solid than what we had a week ago, revert those changes. Just guarantee that because if you just stubbornly build upon mistakes and unsufferable design, you'll just kill the game.

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

I was very hopeful and genuinely interested in the game at the beginning. Since a month or so, I definitely feel exactly the same as you.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
August 29 2015 13:44 GMT
#246
On August 29 2015 22:32 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 03:36 purakushi wrote:
Bandaid after bandaid. This is what happens when the core game does not have a good foundation.

Precisely. This is getting silly.

Please please Blizzard : if it turns out at the end of the month that the version without macro mechanics or with those imbecile autocasts is not more solid than what we had a week ago, revert those changes. Just guarantee that because if you just stubbornly build upon mistakes and unsufferable design, you'll just kill the game.
Show nested quote +

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

I was very hopeful and genuinely interested in the game at the beginning. Since a month or so, I definitely feel exactly the same as you.

many people thought macro mechanics like mules etc were the problematic design....
people need to chill and actually see how it goes.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
August 29 2015 13:58 GMT
#247
On August 29 2015 22:44 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 22:32 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On August 29 2015 03:36 purakushi wrote:
Bandaid after bandaid. This is what happens when the core game does not have a good foundation.

Precisely. This is getting silly.

Please please Blizzard : if it turns out at the end of the month that the version without macro mechanics or with those imbecile autocasts is not more solid than what we had a week ago, revert those changes. Just guarantee that because if you just stubbornly build upon mistakes and unsufferable design, you'll just kill the game.

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

I was very hopeful and genuinely interested in the game at the beginning. Since a month or so, I definitely feel exactly the same as you.

many people thought macro mechanics like mules etc were the problematic design....
people need to chill and actually see how it goes.

I'm sure macro mechanics are indeed a problem with the way LotV eco develops. But they get a lot of bash for the automation of injects and what do they do ? Autocast on everything ! Seriously this is just downright stupid, something I don't even want to see tested.

It's not even like it's useful. For instance, sometimes it's good as P to have many chronos stacked so as to boost one full gateway cycle. With the current build Nexi will always be at 0 energy so it won't be possible unless you have as many Nexi as warpgates, which is unlikely. I don't even understand how they can come up with such ideas.

I have to say most of the other changes make sense, but they're ruining the core of the game.

But yeah, let's chill and relish the bright outlook, because clearly negativity is affecting Blizzard's work in a bad way. You're doing good Blizzard, you're so bold and so smart keep it on. Fuck it I'm done.
Araneae
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway100 Posts
August 29 2015 14:11 GMT
#248
Not even going to concider buying lotv before the macro mechanics is not auto-cast anymore...
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
August 29 2015 14:16 GMT
#249
What if we think outside the box and bring in MORE macro mechanics, and other ways to boost macro? Preferably with less clicks too, but I don't mind.

Blahhh
Cheeseling
Profile Joined March 2012
Ukraine132 Posts
August 29 2015 14:23 GMT
#250
Legacy of The AutoCast?
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
August 29 2015 14:28 GMT
#251
I must be one of a kind, but I actually am a big fan of players that won because "they just had a bit more of everything". When Bomber was great he actually maxed out before anyone on the planet while harassing and keeping on upgrades and could just a-move his way through his opponents. Watching soO's queen energy during some of his GSL runs was fascinating.

It seems most people see little to no merit in that kind of feats because they're not spectacular, while everyone is in awe when PartinG keeps picking up an immortal in a warp prism to rack up 80 kills. I've never been impressed the slightest by such "feats". If he does that in a two base all-in, he doesn't have any eco to manage, since he has walled his natural ramp he doesn't have to worry about a counter-attack... So he only has one task to execute, and of course he does it flawlessly, but as much as I can understand people loving it and finding it spectacular, I always thought that was one-dimensional and not very interesting. Multitask is interesting, micro is just one task and I've always thought the warp prism would have far too much micro potential in LotV to not create unstoppable 2 bases all-ins.

So yeah, I'd call myself a player who favors macro over micro. But is it shocking ? I think Starcraft games are more about macro, and Warcraft games more about micro. So shouldn't it be this way ?

This is why when I read that automated macro mechanics will be good for newer players because they make the game more accessible, I'm as shocked as you would be if I said I think automated marine splits would be good because it would allow players to focus on their macro, make the game more accessible and help bio that struggles in LotV. People who are really good at splitting and want to focus on that can still deactivate autosplit, huh ?

Don't get me wrong, I agree macro mechanics are a problem. But I'd favor a nerf of them to make them less important so less punishing to miss for newer players, over that really inelegant automation. So I'll be vocal against these changes because I think they're really bad and hurt the game at its core for many reasons.
Roblin
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden948 Posts
August 29 2015 14:33 GMT
#252
having the macro mechanics on autocast is in my opinion equivalent to not having them at all (since both cases require practically no player attention), except for the fact that there is a mandatory investment required for terran and zerg. I can't see the mandatory investment as a good thing, but I can see this version of the macro-mechanics as a harmless thing.

I consider this version of macro-mechanics to be largely equivalent to to the no-mule, no-chrono, 2-larvae-auto-inject version, with the one major diference that the balance will be a little closer to pre-macro-mechanics-removal version.
I'm better today than I was yesterday!
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 14:38:49
August 29 2015 14:36 GMT
#253
On August 29 2015 22:58 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 22:44 ETisME wrote:
On August 29 2015 22:32 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On August 29 2015 03:36 purakushi wrote:
Bandaid after bandaid. This is what happens when the core game does not have a good foundation.

Precisely. This is getting silly.

Please please Blizzard : if it turns out at the end of the month that the version without macro mechanics or with those imbecile autocasts is not more solid than what we had a week ago, revert those changes. Just guarantee that because if you just stubbornly build upon mistakes and unsufferable design, you'll just kill the game.

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

I was very hopeful and genuinely interested in the game at the beginning. Since a month or so, I definitely feel exactly the same as you.

many people thought macro mechanics like mules etc were the problematic design....
people need to chill and actually see how it goes.

I'm sure macro mechanics are indeed a problem with the way LotV eco develops. But they get a lot of bash for the automation of injects and what do they do ? Autocast on everything ! Seriously this is just downright stupid, something I don't even want to see tested.

It's not even like it's useful. For instance, sometimes it's good as P to have many chronos stacked so as to boost one full gateway cycle. With the current build Nexi will always be at 0 energy so it won't be possible unless you have as many Nexi as warpgates, which is unlikely. I don't even understand how they can come up with such ideas.

I have to say most of the other changes make sense, but they're ruining the core of the game.

But yeah, let's chill and relish the bright outlook, because clearly negativity is affecting Blizzard's work in a bad way. You're doing good Blizzard, you're so bold and so smart keep it on. Fuck it I'm done.

negativity does as little as positivity without even trying it out.

The auto cast is most likely to get rid of stack energy and boost everything which mid to late game tend to have.
it's not like auto cast = bad. Someone suggested in reddit that you can have queen tethered to hatchery for auto inject and that's an interesting auto macro mechanics

I mean look at sc2 history, only bomber can seperate themselves for having more stuff (and fruitdfealer i guess). it's not like the original were having players identifying themselves as great macro player.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10076 Posts
August 29 2015 14:49 GMT
#254
i dont like this update, imo they are rushing with decisions because they have until "Fall 2015" to realease the game and because of that the most notable changes arent being tested enough. I dont like the auto cast things, for me is all or nothing in this case, or we have HotS macro mecanics or we dont, this middle point or the way its being implemented doesnt sound good, i could be wrong but thats my opinion regarding the developers post.

On August 29 2015 09:49 [Phantom] wrote:
I think the one mistake Blizzard is making is releasing this stuff before a patch. They should just release these thoughts alongside a new patch and say "ok here we did this bexause X, now try it out". Because releasing stuff this way just causes a lot of speculation, pretty pointless disscussion and angry people complaining about changes they haven't even tried.


i was on the hype train with the no macro mechanics patch and playing LotV whenever i could, now with this patch idk if i would be playing until next week :/
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3110 Posts
August 29 2015 14:54 GMT
#255
This is a step in the right direction. Autocast, as people have pointed out, is an odd and perhaps inelegant mechanic to have here (does anyone else feel that this new chrono boost might be more frustrating to use than the old one?), but it's possible that it could work out to some degree. In any event, it's probably worth testing. I would still tend, on the balance, to favor simply weakening macro mechanics but keeping them more as they were. We shall see.

Personally, I enjoy the macro side of the game generally more than the micro side. I enjoy chrono-boosting different things. I'm glad that chrono boost isn't gone completely. But the devs are obviously trying to find a different balance regarding mechanics, macro, and micro than HotS, and that's probably a good idea. Macro, however, is a core part of SC2, and it needs to stay there.

My two cents, anyway.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
August 29 2015 14:54 GMT
#256
so, to be clear..they mean that they are going to go through with the adept cost at 75/50?
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
suddendeathTV
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden388 Posts
August 29 2015 15:03 GMT
#257
Lowering the skillcap even more only serves the fact that no player is really 'the best player'. With a lower skillcap we're going to keep seeing different winners at every tournament. No player will be able to take the spot as the best sc2 player, which is a really bad thing to me. Oh well.
Information is everything
gh0st
Profile Joined January 2010
United States98 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-29 15:05:54
August 29 2015 15:05 GMT
#258
On August 29 2015 23:54 BluemoonSC wrote:
so, to be clear..they mean that they are going to go through with the adept cost at 75/50?



No they are not. They never implemented it publicly, but I guess they tested the adept nerf internally and didn't like it. Which is absurd because it plainly needs some nerf, otherwise PvT will be utterly broken. They must address adepts or prisms. Bringing back a nerfed mule won't fix it.
cabal]
Profile Joined January 2013
Belgium37 Posts
August 29 2015 15:05 GMT
#259
do what you want with terran and protoss but don't let spawn larva autocast- you force good players and bad players to have the SAME macro and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Players cannot show the skill anymore in this area of the game
RaFox17
Profile Joined May 2013
Finland4581 Posts
August 29 2015 15:06 GMT
#260
On August 29 2015 23:28 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I must be one of a kind, but I actually am a big fan of players that won because "they just had a bit more of everything". When Bomber was great he actually maxed out before anyone on the planet while harassing and keeping on upgrades and could just a-move his way through his opponents. Watching soO's queen energy during some of his GSL runs was fascinating.

It seems most people see little to no merit in that kind of feats because they're not spectacular, while everyone is in awe when PartinG keeps picking up an immortal in a warp prism to rack up 80 kills. I've never been impressed the slightest by such "feats". If he does that in a two base all-in, he doesn't have any eco to manage, since he has walled his natural ramp he doesn't have to worry about a counter-attack... So he only has one task to execute, and of course he does it flawlessly, but as much as I can understand people loving it and finding it spectacular, I always thought that was one-dimensional and not very interesting. Multitask is interesting, micro is just one task and I've always thought the warp prism would have far too much micro potential in LotV to not create unstoppable 2 bases all-ins.

So yeah, I'd call myself a player who favors macro over micro. But is it shocking ? I think Starcraft games are more about macro, and Warcraft games more about micro. So shouldn't it be this way ?

This is why when I read that automated macro mechanics will be good for newer players because they make the game more accessible, I'm as shocked as you would be if I said I think automated marine splits would be good because it would allow players to focus on their macro, make the game more accessible and help bio that struggles in LotV. People who are really good at splitting and want to focus on that can still deactivate autosplit, huh ?

Don't get me wrong, I agree macro mechanics are a problem. But I'd favor a nerf of them to make them less important so less punishing to miss for newer players, over that really inelegant automation. So I'll be vocal against these changes because I think they're really bad and hurt the game at its core for many reasons.

I agree with you. Taking out much of the depth of SC2 is not something i want. Nerfing the macro boosters is better way to go. I wan´t SoO to have more stuff than random GM.
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