EPTWhen will I get used to that new design my God
LotV Balance Update Preview - August 20 - Page 8
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
When will I get used to that new design my God | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On August 21 2015 06:50 [PkF] Wire wrote: Good and bad things in that patch, as usual... 1) Macro mechanics : I'm all for the test, but I really think the autocast is crossing a dangerous line. I wish a more elegant solution was found. Creep is vital enough for Zerg to be an incentive to get queens (plus they're anti-air + ranged and incredibly useful in defence early game) so that I think that having the hatcheries spawning more larvae (and maybe lairs, hives spawning even more) would have been better. 2) Cyclone : my God, at last they're considering nerfing that shitty unit. I still think the upgrade should increase only vs air damage, but this is a start, though the "greatly improves" is definitely worrisome. 3) Zealot charge : LOL. So adepts are overpowered, hence overused, better make chargelots broken as well. Keep zealots as they are, nerf adepts accordingly. Why are you so stubborn ? And why do adept shades STILL go through freakin forcefields ? 4) Warpgate change : I'll be the first one to laugh at all the retards saying "Yay !" to the change when they will die to their 15th warp prism all-in of the day. Warp-in time should be left untouched, because they're basically buffing every all-in that includes a warp prism. I'll say it once again, but splitting energy power and warp-in power was a far more elegant and wise change that achieved the same offensive nerf while keeping the warp prism tame. But they seem adamant that a warp prism should be the most broken thing you can get for 200 minerals, so maybe that's a good change for them... 5) Disruptor redesing : this seems to be a good direction, I'm glad the invulnerability thing is gone. I'm comfortable with that one. 6) Enemy spawn location : lol who cares. Anyway I'm not playing that unstable thing until they reach the fine tuning point (so roughly another month of HotS, which is a more pleasant and solid game anyway imo)... I'm no good tester, and I can't bear playing a game that's so obviously plagued with imbalanced things. Nice response honestly, a few differing opinions from my own but I really like some of yours. Totally agree with the mechanics thing, I definitely want the auto cast removed and refined to something else that benefits top level play, maybe make it a lot cheaper like 25 energy but you only get the 2 larvae instead of the 4 with a 6 larvae max? I'm not sure what the actual max it but I know it's alot, something that still makes macro hatcheries a good option but in the early to mid game if you need extra units and your Jaedong you can have them but no crazy Mutalisk 200/200 remax that makes balance hard as hell to work around. I'm just very excited to see some radical changes to simplify the apm sinks, I do kind of disagree with you on the Warp Gate change though, while it's good to see someone else who recognizes that this change with the Prisms will be broken as with the pick up not being an upgrade it's already kind of OP in my opinion. But I think that both of these changes are going to be like ripping off a big band aid and it's going to hurt balance greatly, but this time when it heals, which it WILL heal, the Koreans are going to set the meta and it's going to evolve just like it always does and that means balance patches WILL be coming out for a long time. Couldn't agree more with you on the Cyclone though, that unit is total garbage, why the hell not just add the damn Goliath for mobile AA, Lurkers and uh.."Disruptors" have already injected so much life into the game, why not just do it for Terran as well, especially if the unit is just trying so hard to fill the same role that the Goliath did, the Cyclone is just so awful and low skill cap. It's not the unit mech needs or deserves. I'm also kind of wondering when Overlord drop is going to be changed to something sensible like OVERSEER DROP. The drop at hatch tech thing just makes it so insanely gimmicky that it's not even funny, ZvZ just sucks, there is no stability without the ability to make a reliable wall off. No other race possesses drop tech at tier 1 for a reason, because it's just OP by nature being able to instantly by pass a wall off. Change drop to an upgrade for Overseers for the same cost and time, that way, if a Zerg player wants to rush for drop tech, they at least have to wait for Lair, but they can still hit fast and Overseers without speed are only moderately fast, kind of sluggish and easy to pick off, but not so much with Overlords which by the mid game will NEVER be able to get a drop off in a defended base. Also, Overseers even with speed upgrades still lack a direct combat involved ability, they are a utility unit only, they would be merely speedy detectors that can spawn scouts (which would be sick to cover drop areas for safety) So it wouldn't be OP to keep them cheap, having good drop options should be available to everybody, don't finally make the big change for Zerg and make it some gimmicky nonsense, give us a mid - late game reliable drop unit, not gimmicks that ruin the mirror match up if they work and are just stupidly useless if they don't. Apologies for hijacking your post it was just nice to hear a level headed response to each change, lately it's just crying about MULES and Chrono lol so I can appreciate. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:12 Naracs_Duc wrote: The cooldowns of units does not change. The only thing that changes is that the first round of units show up 3 seconds sooner--everything else comes in at the same pace as current all ins. Is the first wave showing up 3 seconds sooner that big of a buff to define them as overpowered? I think it's a huge buff to anything that includes a warp prism and lots of gateways, but maybe I'm overreacting. I say for sure it's not elegant, at least far less than warp-in/energy splitting. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
Gosh, I'm a bit nervous about this whole thing. The game's being turned upside down. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:15 Captain Peabody wrote: I really hope that adding back in macro mechanics in some form will still be possible, and will still be considered, after this patch. If this works out wonderfully, fine. But if it doesn't, then I hope that everyone figures that out. Gosh, I'm a bit nervous about this whole thing. The game's being turned upside down. I simply hope that if the test turns out to be just bad or to require too many changes, they'll consider keeping macro mechanics as they are. Just that. But I'll be perfectly happy if the removal turns out to be great, I definitely think this can match the pace of the game and the economy far better since you'll exhaust minerals more slowly. The game being turned upside down is probably not a bad thing per se, but I can't understand why they didn't do those huge changes earlier. I'm pretty sure they aim at a post-Blizzcon release, and time is running out. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the released product will be really bad balance wise and that the first LotV tourneys are going to be absolute jokes (which wasn't really the case with HotS, beginning was awesome and problems began after the oracle patch), I hope they'll accept to be very reactive with patches after release. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why nerf adepts when Protoss is already the underpowered race? Give Protoss some broken toys for the beta too. To match the ravager and tank. Protoss don't seem to know how to play at this point. I've seen really strong Protoss and then I've seen Protoss who fold like tents. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:18 [PkF] Wire wrote: I simply hope that if the test turns out to be just bad or to require too many changes, they'll consider keeping macro mechanics as they are. Just that. But I'll be perfectly happy if the removal turns out to be great, I definitely think this can match the pace of the game and the economy far better since you'll exhaust minerals more slowly. I think i will miss the "mindless apm sink" as people named it. It is just fun to play against the game a bit, not every single interaction has to be with the enemy 100%, at least i don't see why. I think Zerg macro will be boring now, but i guess i should try it first...^^ edit: I agree that macro being slower overall is a good thing though | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Is call supply depot still in the game? They should remove that. yes it is and yes it should | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think i will miss the "mindless apm sink" as people named it. It is just fun to play against the game a bit, not every single interaction has to be with the enemy 100%, at least i don't see why. I think Zerg macro will be boring now, but i guess i should try it first...^^ edit: I agree that macro being slower overall is a good thing though The thing I'm the saddest about is the patch is kinda killing those pristine macro Zergs I'm a huge fan of (Jaedong sometimes, soO). It also limits a lot one of the things I liked the most about Zerg, namely wild tech switches. I think good things can be gotten from that change nevertheless (but don't have autocast queens please). | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On August 21 2015 03:23 Little-Chimp wrote: blizz couldn't resist a medivac buff eh, oh well, lookin good minus that and auto inject medivac power creep since WOL launch to now is pretty wild If they like a reaver style unit, re-use reaver model and name IMO :D | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think i will miss the "mindless apm sink" as people named it. It is just fun to play against the game a bit, not every single interaction has to be with the enemy 100%, at least i don't see why. I think Zerg macro will be boring now, but i guess i should try it first...^^ edit: I agree that macro being slower overall is a good thing though I hope they try what they talked about at some point, namely nerfing the mechanics but keeping them. I think this achieves what we all want, slower macro that fits the game better and more forgiving (or less punishing ?) macro. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
Without playing it, I feel like zerg is going to be super weak in the early/mid game now~ a time when hitting all your injects was the difference between living and dying. | ||
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BraveProbe
36 Posts
What it does do is take away a lot of the prestige and some of the edge of some of the best players that I have been watching religiously for years. These would be very disappointing changes if they do go live. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
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Rollora
2450 Posts
Zergs economy booster got nerfed Terran economy booster got removed completely without a buff. I always thought the mule should help out because you always have several scvs building stuff, therefore not mining. Removing it completely, not removing the others macro booster completely... i see what you did there blizzard. But at least you are trying completely different things and mechanics and its just a beta, so I am really hopeful for LOTV | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:39 Rollora wrote: So Protoss economy got nerfed, but they got a buff Zergs economy got nerfed Terran economy booster got removed completely without a buff. I always thought the mule should help out because you always have several scvs building stuff, therefore not mining. Removing it completely, not removing the others macro booster completely... i see what you did there blizzard How was Protoss macro booster not removed completely? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 21 2015 07:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: The thing I'm the saddest about is the patch is kinda killing those pristine macro Zergs I'm a huge fan of (Jaedong sometimes, soO). It also limits a lot one of the things I liked the most about Zerg, namely wild tech switches. I think good things can be gotten from that change nevertheless (but don't have autocast queens please). It's pretty sad though when you watch a first person view of soO during a combat and what he does is presplit stuff and make a concave and all that cool shit and then the action starts and he a-moves and goes inject. (paraphrasing Teoita from TL Strat Chat) The mechanic is rotten. It has two major problems (that are obviously hugely connected): a) it's too important. Regardless what you are currently doing, if you haven't injected injecting is the proper call. During a battle when you think unit control and all that shit can be shown off, even or rather especially the best zergs go inject instead of microing. having 60% of your production on an ability is just too much and completely irreplaceable by any other form of play. b) the inject cannot be stored or postponed. 40seconds over? Well, gotta go inject right now. There is some battle going on? Sorry, micro comes afterwards, right now is inject time or otherwise I just lose out on this resource called larva. Doing muta harass that is going well? Well, let me park them over there for 5seconds because now is inject time. | ||
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