EPT
.Community Feedback Update - August 14 - Page 6
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Our current plan is to continue exploring various large-scale changes for roughly one additional month, and then (assuming things are sufficiently finalized) we can shift our focus towards balance changes for the remainder of the beta. Design changes will still be considered after this period, but we will be trying to reduce them to things that are absolutely needed so that we can focus on balance tuning before the release of the game. This is the most disappointing part for me, that probably means there won't be any changes to economy, high ground, pathing, tier changes (hydra tier one for example), or even some new upgrades which would maybe improve the game (let's be honest, additional upgrades would be sweet) Oh man, as i said before, Blizzard only doing the absolut minimum (ok a little bit more maybe) :/ Beware people, the LOTV gameplay you see in one week will be pretty much the game we will play till the next big rts, sigh -.- | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On August 15 2015 08:42 The_Red_Viper wrote: This is the most disappointing part for me, that probably means there won't be any changes to economy, high ground, pathing, tier changes (hydra tier one for example), or even some new upgrades which would maybe improve the game (let's be honest, additional upgrades would be sweet) Oh man, as i said before, Blizzard only doing the absolut minimum (ok a little bit more maybe) :/ Beware people, the LOTV gameplay you see in one week will be pretty much the game we will play till the next big rts, sigh -.- i was literally just writing a post on the exact same thing, but now it doesnt make sense since you mentioned it; i completely agree, it feels rushed. When giving such a deadline, ideally many (70% maybe?) of the core design changes would have been tested and approved. This feels like a management decision from above, they just have to stick to the deadline and there is nothing they can do about it. Realistically in a month at this rate of testing, there is room for a last batch of core changes, after the one on thursday; then only fine tuning and release; the community better help with quality feedback and quick feasible ideas, as time is rapidly running out. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 15 2015 08:56 xtorn wrote: i was literally just writing a post on the exact same thing, but now it doesnt make sense since you mentioned it; i completely agree, it feels rushed. When giving such a deadline, ideally many (70% maybe?) of the core design changes would have been tested and approved. This feels like a management decision from above, they just have to stick to the deadline and there is nothing they can do about it. Realistically in a month at this rate of testing, there is room for a last batch of core changes, after the one on thursday; then only fine tuning and release; the community better help with quality feedback and quick feasible ideas, as time is rapidly running out. One month would be okish if they actually would be fast with these core changes and tests. Let's say we use one week per change, that would probably be doable to see if a change is good or bad for the game design (balance is almost unimportant). But that obviously won't happen, i don't even see ONE more big thing being changed tbh. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
Oh look another TvT final the 3 one so suprising... not really. I hope beatyqt reads this post like he did last time... | ||
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Tosster
Poland299 Posts
Also, Terran can still mule/depo, Zerg has creeps and larva (though auto), and Toss has?.... mcore i guess :/ | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On August 15 2015 06:35 Steelghost wrote: Macro Mechanics? We are really getting ahead of ourselves, why not fix things like the overlapping disruptor, viper etc? i think such changes are considered ahead of others because of the "game too hard, make it more approachable for newcomers" argument; this seems to be top priority now, increasing player base (which i agree is necessary, but maybe there are ways to do this other than simply dumbing down the game mechanics) | ||
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sdnnvs
Brazil33 Posts
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FaiFai
Peru53 Posts
On August 15 2015 08:38 DeadByDawn wrote: Wow, more protoss, bullshit, cheesy builds incoming. Protoss players love proxying Stargates, now they will proxy gateways instead, then bang - 2 second warp in. With Adepts supporting the pylon and Stargate they will never lose them and the game will become unplayable for 1/3 of match ups. Try to catch them out of position and PO and defensive 2 second warp in will get them out of jail - mothership core out of position just recall and defend. How about a change that would make Protoss players have to scout? Or be aware of the map? Or any of the other stuff that real players have to do? you mean that are moving from forcefield bullshit to another bullshit?. | ||
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nottapro
202 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Temeter
37 Posts
They make inject automatic, making zerg alot easier by removing the one punishing thing about it (and one of the few reasons to even look at your base). Zerg, which is already the race which had the last two years less players in bronce and silver than protoss and terran, meaning it is easier already in low leagues. 23.6% bronce, 27.6% silver, 32.4% gold and more zerg above: nios.kr Then you remove chrono for protoss, which is busywork, but also can be forgiving when you forgot upgrades or lost workers. Worst of all, they remove mules for terran, which are incredibly easy to use and the simplest part of terran macro, you'll automatically see all mules while building SCVs anyway. Instead we'll use supply drops now, which will actually take a miniscule amount of more aiming. Supply drop will make the early game actually more punishing since people can just go for sniping high supply depots to cause hardcore supply-blocks! And did I mention how inbase expands are nerfed by having them to fly out earlier (with less incentive for orbitals)? How you can't mule on fewer bases? How terrans are going to get less orbitals, weakening their natural tools against cloaked units? So the general 'easement' of macro will make the most accessible race more accessible and don't ease anything about terran at all, but instead making it slightly harder despite simplifying build-orders. Anyone else seeing the error? | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On August 15 2015 10:27 Temeter wrote: Not a fan. It's such a bizarre reasoning: They make inject automatic, making zerg alot easier by removing the one punishing thing about it (and one of the few reasons to even look at your base). Zerg, which is already the race which had the last two years less players in bronce and silver than protoss and terran, meaning it is easier already in low leagues. 23.6% bronce, 27.6% silver, 32.4% gold and more zerg above: nios.kr Then you remove chrono for protoss, which is busywork, but also can be forgiving when you forgot upgrades or lost workers. Worst of all, they remove mules for terran, which are incredibly easy to use and the simplest part of terran macro, you'll automatically see all mules while building SCVs anyway. Instead we'll use supply drops now, which will actually take a miniscule amount of more aiming. Supply drop will make the early game actually more punishing since people can just go for sniping high supply depots to cause hardcore supply-blocks! And did I mention how inbase expands are nerfed by having them to fly out earlier (with less incentive for orbitals)? How you can't mule on fewer bases? How terrans are going to get less orbitals, weakening their natural tools against cloaked units? So the general 'easement' of macro will make the most accessible race more accessible and don't ease anything about terran at all, but instead making it slightly harder despite simplifying build-orders. Anyone else seeing the error? You have some good points. I think after testing things will be back to normal. I think a better nerf (if at all required, it isn't imho) - would be to nerf macro boosters by 25%. This will slow their effect and put more emphasis on micro engagements as you will have less money to throw away. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
1) less economy early. that means that zergs cannot play greedy anymore and really have to think about what units they are producing, especially before they get an additional macro hatch..which also means that they're sinking 300/450 minerals, which could have been something else, into macro hatches/queens to reach similar levels of production 2) zergs can no longer bank as much larva as they used to be able to off of 3/4 base. which means if you kill a drone line, thats twice as devastating for zerg as it was before. it also means that if you wipe out an army, your counter attack will be much stronger as well since they will have less larva. previously, zergs were punished if they missed injects or lost a queen to save something from harassment..thats production/larva that they can never get back whereas mules and chrono bank and can be spammed out. now terran get to spend energy on more intel via scans, and can more regularly supply drop which saves 100g and keeps a worker mining..thats so huge. protoss will also get naturally faster tech which is pretty neat too, you don't have to choose to spend chrono on either tech or warp-ins (especially with the quicker defensive warp ins). all in all i think this is positive especially with the new units requiring all races to baby sit and micro more | ||
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AdrianHealeyy
114 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On August 15 2015 11:02 BluemoonSC wrote: i dont understand why people are complaining about the zerg inject auto cast for 2 reasons 1) less economy early. that means that zergs cannot play greedy anymore and really have to think about what units they are producing, especially before they get an additional macro hatch..which also means that they're sinking 300/450 minerals, which could have been something else, into macro hatches/queens to reach similar levels of production 2) zergs can no longer bank as much larva as they used to be able to off of 3/4 base. which means if you kill a drone line, thats twice as devastating for zerg as it was before. it also means that if you wipe out an army, your counter attack will be much stronger as well since they will have less larva. previously, zergs were punished if they missed injects or lost a queen to save something from harassment..thats production/larva that they can never get back whereas mules and chrono bank and can be spammed out. now terran get to spend energy on more intel via scans, and can more regularly supply drop which saves 100g and keeps a worker mining..thats so huge. protoss will also get naturally faster tech which is pretty neat too, you don't have to choose to spend chrono on either tech or warp-ins (especially with the quicker defensive warp ins). all in all i think this is positive especially with the new units requiring all races to baby sit and micro more Yeah, the problem with all of that is, we haven't gotten to the balance patches yet. The point of cutting macro mechanics isn't to change the meta, it's to make the game smoother for newbies, therefore I have to assume that Blizzard will do everything in their power to minimize the meta-impact of these changes. "Less economy early" - so they'll just reduce costs on early Zerg structures/units and there won't be a difference. "Zergs can no longer bank as much larva" - first of all, Zerg will have more Hatcheries in LOTV so this is already a grey area; second, Blizz might just buff Zerg units to make up for less larva. All of that is up in the air. What we know for a fact is that the macro of a race that wasn't micro-intensive to begin with just got a hell of a lot easier. | ||
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omeGA.
8 Posts
We've seen a few questions about the upcoming patch and so we wanted to clarify: The Disruptor changes will be in the next LotV beta balance patch The next beta balance patch is currently planned for Thursday, August 20th Hopefully that helps answer some of your questions! ~Arkitas " | ||
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Agh
United States1042 Posts
Mules should have never made it into the game. This will have a nice impact on the TvZ matchup, hopefully they let it play out a bit before making any changes to units. It will hopefully get rid of the ultra turtle style which lotv is trying to get rid of. The speed at which creed recedes seems like the obvious area to fix. It may add an incentive for players to get overlord speed as a way to regain their creep spread after removal. The list for build time changes for protoss units and upgrades is going to be huge | ||
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