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MyrionSC
Denmark140 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:39 [PkF] Wire wrote: I wouldn't bash it if splitting warp-in power and energy power didn't achieve exactly the same things on the offensive warp-in nerf side, but without the downsides... I'm not familiar with what you are talking about. How is what you are saying different from what is being implemented? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:39 Dingodile wrote: with auto-inject you have basically zero chance to creep spread. I think you'll be able to set queens on auto-inject. If you don't set a queen on auto-inject, it will just live its peaceful creep spreading / transfusing life. Nevertheless, I hate the autocast "solution" too. Make hatcheries automatically spawn more larvae, it's more elegant and queens are a very useful spellcaster and early game defense anyway. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
Scanner Sweep use is much more common, but because there are so many possible scans available, Calldown: Extra Supplies now has tactical justification. The decision to cast one ability or the other has become rather dynamic, and the constant decisions between these two abilities seem interesting. It cannot be understated how gigantic this nerf to bio play is. I think you will have to go for gas intensive units now. Marine/Maurauder is unlikely to be viable. Also the decision between supply call down and scan isn't interesting at all, but w/e. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:42 [PkF] Wire wrote: I think you'll be able to set queens on auto-inject. If you don't set a queen on auto-inject, it will just live its peaceful creep spreading / transfusing life. ? If you disable the auto-inject, that queen is doing the same job like the current queen/state?! | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3558 Posts
I think there's honestly no reason to cut the Mule if they keep call down supply. Instead they could just nerf it to the ground. Using call down supply, when no scan is needed, will feel terrible as with Orbitals giving 14 Supply there's already not much space to make building walls, with call down supply, it'll hurt this even more and those walls will actually be pretty precious at 16 supply pr. supply depot. Auto inject should instead be the ability to queue up injects I think. The reason auto inject is kept instead of increasing the hatch larvae spawn rate, is so you can still harass and kill off queens. MB auto inject is nice, but have a hard time thinking of a nice implementation of this. Chrono Boost is the easiest to just cut, though if they go back on this at some point, you could also make it able to queue up instead. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:43 Hider wrote: It cannot be understated how gigantic this nerf to bio play is. I think you will have to go for gas intensive units now. Marine/Maurauder is unlikely to be viable. Also the decision between supply call down and scan isn't interesting at all, but w/e. Also Terran's implicit harass resistance. Mules make up for dead SCVs. Turtle mech is going to be much better, especially cyclones. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:40 MyrionSC wrote: I'm not familiar with what you are talking about. How is what you are saying different from what is being implemented? The solution they first came with and which I'm a big fan of : - Pylons provide only energy power, that allows you to build structures (blue circles). They don't provide warp-in power anymore. - Warpgates, Nexi and warp prisms provide usual warp-in power. Warp-in duration is left unchanged. That solution just kills early/mid game attacks that rely on proxy pylons. It also avoids the downsides of the 2/16 sec "solution" : with their solution, the warp prism makes every gateway based all-in basically able to reinforce at an unheard of speed, and I can even see proxy warpgates becoming a thing. I'm pretty adamant it would force a severe adept nerf because of warp prism + adepts all-ins. Besides, that solution is quite confusing... I really see no reason to favor the 2/16 solution instead of the warp-in / energy power split. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:46 Dingodile wrote: ? If you disable the auto-inject, that queen is doing the same job like the current queen/state?! I think so. I'm pretty sure Proleague will forbid queen autocasting by the way, like they did with automatic drones rally at the start. | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
 In order of disappointment... Removal of Inject>Removal of Chrono-boost>Changes to Warp-ins>Removal of Mule. Also, now Warp Prisms are essentially required for offensive attacks as Protoss. I don't really see many aggressive builds forgoing it. Another thing is that they removed a lot of the build strategy in Protoss and Zerg due to the macro reduction changes. Chrono-boost gave Protoss a lot of ways to customize their build, or tweak it slightly for crisp timings in the early game. I thought it was sort of neat. Similar situation with Zerg. Inject timings were a cool part of Zerg openers, at least in ZvZ. But whatever. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8324 Posts
On August 15 2015 03:34 Energizer wrote: Well that was... disappointing I guess. I was kind of hoping for some more changes considering macro mechanics are being removed. I'd be lying if I wasn't at least half-expecting supply costs to be revisited, especially for zerg since they're going to have an even tougher time remaxing after a fight without as much of a larva bank. May as well let zerg have a larger max army to help with trades. Agreed. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually think it's time to revisit one supply roaches. (Note: not two armor, however). | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
What if the orbital calls down an SCV instead of a mule? That would be a interesting change. | ||
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MyrionSC
Denmark140 Posts
On August 15 2015 05:01 Loccstana wrote: Blizzard has to remember that the mule was introduced to compensate for the fact that in early game, Terran must pull scvs from mining to construct buildings. What if the orbital calls down an SCV instead of a mule? That would be a interesting change. That is exactly what it does in starbow  | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
The WG changes are beautiful, really an awesome solution, allow WG to be a tool to defend bases especially against super drops, other super prisms and Zerg drops, Protoss needs to be able to quickly and reliably spread out. Now that that is taken care of, a slew of balance problems are going to exist and Protoss is probably going to be a bit underpowered, but after several balance changes and the Koreans coming into the scene and teaching everyone how to play, I think Protoss will have to go through the rough learning phase while they are redesigned into a more unit control skill cap based race. My only gripes is that there are things that are clear problems in LOTV right now that aren't really an issue of people learning to play. Ultralisks are killing bio play and are stupid and A move, the Ghost and Infestor still are underpowered compared to Templar play, Liberators need to be tuned down, the Reaver change needs to go through for the Disruptor, and the Cyclone still needs to be removed. All in all, as far as major balance and design changes, I am so pleased to finally see Protoss get some fundamental reworking, especially to WG, it's been so problematic for so many years, nice to see a good, sensible, balance friendly solution. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
it's like a slap in the face.. please reconsider auto-cast injects.. i'm no BW purist but this is taking the auto rallied workers and auto mining to the extreme. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On August 15 2015 04:16 Liquid`Snute wrote: Zergs asked for two buttons, one to spawn ground locust and one for air locust, but it never happened. Locust landing AI is clunky and not fun to use. Locusts are Light, a few turrets and a PF with blue flame hellbats next to them completely demolish them. 60 seconds waiting time is still a lot. They move awfully slowly in the air. Feels like a lot of ways to improve the SH without making it utterly broken. Reducing its supply from 4 to 3 is probably the best way since it only affects the later maxed-out stages of the game. Pretty much every caster out there has stated it a million times including on the WCS streams ... "the army is so small" ... But even then, turtle mech players are extremely good at taking close to zero damage from them anyway. It's really impressive to play against players like Happy that position their planetaries, hellbats, turrets etc. well. I've had several scenarios where 10 swarm hosts have only been able to kill one turret and 1-2 hellbats. They're just really weak. Reducing the supply from 4 to 3 is the most important change, but even then this unit has so many issues and a lot of those issues will transfer over to LOTV if they are not fixed, especially not having separate buttons for ground/air and the clunky, un-enjoyable AI with slow air locusts, stutters before landing, premature landing, etc... still there. Actually they could just remove the swarm host and buff infested terrans on hive tech. make the eggs beefy, make the marines do damage, especially vs buildings (PF...). Same purpose, better design in every possible way. I agree 100% Best way is to give upgrades back to Infested Terrans, make FG do bonus damage vs Armored units, longer range. Remove PDD That alone could change the game a bit. It would allow you to do something. Also NP that was never used... that ability could also be a projectile that gives you control of the enemy unit for 12 - 15 sec. There are so many ways to help Zerg vs Mech but i feel David Kim or other people on the balance team have no god damn idea how Zergs even work in Sc2 | ||
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winsonsonho
Korea (South)143 Posts
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Little-Chimp
Canada951 Posts
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Araneae
Norway100 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 15 2015 05:38 Araneae wrote: Can't say I like auto-cast at all, could just remove inject and buff larva spawning from the hatch instead if you are going to make it auto-cast imo. the end result is the exact same except you wouldn't need 1 queen for every macro hatchery | ||
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