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On August 17 2015 02:06 ohmylanta1003 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 02:00 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 17 2015 01:17 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:50 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:43 NKexquisite wrote:
Zerg ez-mode now with auto-inject. Wonder why queens don't auto-creep spread too Yes. Because pressing a button every some odd seconds made Zerg that much harder. Zerg is the busy race... even Incontrol who is a protoss know this. Injecting every 40 sec, while creep spreading, while having a blance of when to drone and make units is much harder then any other race. Zerg is the macro race. sure zerg is/was more macro oriented, didn't make it harder though Oh boy. I hate talking about "easy race, hard race". Everyone thinks their race is the hardest for reasons X, Y, and Z. It's stupid to even try to get into an argument about it.
there's no argument, I didn't say zerg was easy, I said it wasn't harder than other races, every race is different, requires different focus, no race is harder overall really, you're either good at starcraft or you're not
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On August 17 2015 02:04 ohmylanta1003 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 01:17 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:50 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:43 NKexquisite wrote:
Zerg ez-mode now with auto-inject. Wonder why queens don't auto-creep spread too Yes. Because pressing a button every some odd seconds made Zerg that much harder. Zerg is the busy race... even Incontrol who is a protoss know this. Injecting every 40 sec, while creep spreading, while having a blance of when to drone and make units is much harder then any other race. Zerg is the macro race. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying I don't understand how people can say Zerg got SOOOOO much easier because of autoinjects.
Most people think that auto-inject will allow the zerg to always look at his army, without seeing his base ever during the game.
Its a false statment by far tho.
On August 17 2015 02:00 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 01:17 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:50 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:43 NKexquisite wrote:
Zerg ez-mode now with auto-inject. Wonder why queens don't auto-creep spread too Yes. Because pressing a button every some odd seconds made Zerg that much harder. Zerg is the busy race... even Incontrol who is a protoss know this. Injecting every 40 sec, while creep spreading, while having a blance of when to drone and make units is much harder then any other race. Zerg is the macro race. sure zerg is/was more macro oriented, didn't make it harder though
You havent played LBM or playing vs Mech....
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
On August 16 2015 21:41 MyrionSC wrote:Just realized this will make blink stalker all-ins much weaker. I'm sure terrans will be glad of that atleast  wasn't that fun to watch anyway, seemed a little too strong
It shouldn't, because they nerfed blink and warpgate into balance by anticipating the researches being chrono boosted half a dozen times and increasing the research times. Not by short amounts either*. Without chrono, the research times will be made shorter again so that aggression around research times will still be possible
*Blink went from 110 seconds to 170
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Just separate mech upgrades and that will alleviate much of the problem.
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On August 17 2015 02:08 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 02:06 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 17 2015 02:00 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 17 2015 01:17 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:50 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:43 NKexquisite wrote:
Zerg ez-mode now with auto-inject. Wonder why queens don't auto-creep spread too Yes. Because pressing a button every some odd seconds made Zerg that much harder. Zerg is the busy race... even Incontrol who is a protoss know this. Injecting every 40 sec, while creep spreading, while having a blance of when to drone and make units is much harder then any other race. Zerg is the macro race. sure zerg is/was more macro oriented, didn't make it harder though Oh boy. I hate talking about "easy race, hard race". Everyone thinks their race is the hardest for reasons X, Y, and Z. It's stupid to even try to get into an argument about it. there's no argument, I didn't say zerg was easy, I said it wasn't harder than other races, every race is different, requires different focus, no race is harder overall really, you're either good at starcraft or you're not
So you flat out disagree with Blizzard's claim after the pro summit (presumably reinforced by pro feedback) that Protoss is the easier race to master?
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
So when is this patch going live?
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What if they kept the mule but just changed its purpose? For instance, make it more like an SCV, have it able to build, no time limit on it, maybe returns as much as a gold patch(7 minerals right?), or maybe something like being able to build a bit faster?
As far as the Disruptor goes, I've been saying since it came out, The design of it makes it an absolute nightmare to balance. Might just need a new unit design, curious what changes there thinkin of though.. Heres my idea of redesigning it, change the look of it a bit but consider it work like this. It hovers like it does then you activate it, it plants itself into the ground and a ball turret rises from the middle. Its like a mobile turret but you could come up with any amount of clever firing options. It could fire a beam at a couple targets simultaneously or maybe have it shoot somethin like a under powered Reaver shot, that would be some cool nostalgia but need to be balanced correctly. It would give the protoss some cool advancing and retreating options, PvP might not end in a single 5 second battle as much. It would also add some fun micro
Ghost snipe ability - I think it would be cool if the shot went through its target and hit anything directly behind it, maybe going through a couple, dealing less damage to each subsequent target. Hell its a huge rifle, call it a armor piercing shot or somethin..Not through massive units though. 3 seconds is still too long, but if theres going to be any delay before it fires, its gotta have more value. Probably would still be fine with no delay
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It's crazy to me that this game has been out for like 5 years and just now, at the 11th hour just before LotV comes out, they decide to start making these huge gameplay changes? People have been complaining about warp gate since release. Where was the warpgate change when XNC was a map, or when 4gate was the most common PvP build?
I really think changes like these warrant more than a month of testing at the least
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
I agree, we're 4 months into the LOTV beta. Why did they sit for the last 3 months making very few serious changes with little beta activity at all before deciding that they're actually going to do the changes that people have been asking for, but only have ~4 weeks to balance them?
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As a protoss player, I really don't like these warpgate changes. The 2/16 sec differential seems so gimmicky. Also, stop buffing the warp prism and look at other units. HOTS basically forced all toss players to get a MSC, and now it seems that LOTV is trying to do the same thing with warp prisms.
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Glad to hear there is some progress...still kind of disappointed they're still wanting to change the macro mechanics. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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On August 17 2015 08:12 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 02:08 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 17 2015 02:06 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 17 2015 02:00 ROOTFayth wrote:On August 17 2015 01:17 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:50 ohmylanta1003 wrote:On August 16 2015 23:43 NKexquisite wrote:
Zerg ez-mode now with auto-inject. Wonder why queens don't auto-creep spread too Yes. Because pressing a button every some odd seconds made Zerg that much harder. Zerg is the busy race... even Incontrol who is a protoss know this. Injecting every 40 sec, while creep spreading, while having a blance of when to drone and make units is much harder then any other race. Zerg is the macro race. sure zerg is/was more macro oriented, didn't make it harder though Oh boy. I hate talking about "easy race, hard race". Everyone thinks their race is the hardest for reasons X, Y, and Z. It's stupid to even try to get into an argument about it. there's no argument, I didn't say zerg was easy, I said it wasn't harder than other races, every race is different, requires different focus, no race is harder overall really, you're either good at starcraft or you're not So you flat out disagree with Blizzard's claim after the pro summit (presumably reinforced by pro feedback) that Protoss is the easier race to master?
given that nobody has mastered a race yet, how can this be possible
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On August 17 2015 11:32 TheFish7 wrote:
It's crazy to me that this game has been out for like 5 years and just now, at the 11th hour just before LotV comes out, they decide to start making these huge gameplay changes? People have been complaining about warp gate since release. Where was the warpgate change when XNC was a map, or when 4gate was the most common PvP build?
I really think changes like these warrant more than a month of testing at the least
I'm worried that this is a last minute change to throw a bone to the player base that is asking for changes, only for them to change it back at the last second because they realize proper balance will be harder to tweak.
Which would suck because I think the macro changes are the best for the game in the long run (save for auto-inject, just give hatches more larva and change the role of the queen), and they had 3 months to try this out and tweak it.
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I really don't get the mule removal. Nerfing it to the point the 3 abilities on the cc are meaningful would be a nice change. What happens now? They just replaced the APM sink with another one, supply drop. Save 100 minerals when you have scans? sure! Of course, the other impact is that terran will scan more, don't think its an improvement the game. The price? rebalance everything terran. There is no fine tuning ahead, changing the mineral/gas ratio changes everything, its a full redesign.
Protoss without chrono and with the slow production will become very hard to fix too, Many HotS and WoL strategies relied on chrono boost on production, others on warp gate, probes or upgrades. Chrono is such an interesting, meaningful, fun macro mechanic that is not hard to use to begin with. Why mix in the same "boring" bag with larva injects? To make it fair? Everything must be reworked anyway!
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I never found inject boring. I worked really hard to get good at it, hours of practicing nothing but injects and the fact that I could inject like a pro player was an incredible feeling . Selecting my larvae and having hundreds available felt very zerg as I re maxed instantly.
I really hate that they removed it, people who spent time working on being mechanically sound are being punished because some people have said it's boring , perhaps they just aren't very good at it.
At the moment they removed inject but have provided no alternative mechanic that can separate good players.
If I wanted to play a game where all I do with my apm is micro my units I would play wc3 or a moba.
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On August 17 2015 17:49 KelsierSC wrote:
I never found inject boring. I worked really hard to get good at it, hours of practicing nothing but injects and the fact that I could inject like a pro player was an incredible feeling . Selecting my larvae and having hundreds available felt very zerg as I re maxed instantly.
I really hate that they removed it, people who spent time working on being mechanically sound are being punished because some people have said it's boring , perhaps they just aren't very good at it.
At the moment they removed inject but have provided no alternative mechanic that can separate good players.
If I wanted to play a game where all I do with my apm is micro my units I would play wc3 or a moba.
Creep spread will separate good player from bad players... burrow micro, overlord drops, multitasking. harassing.
Choosing when to make units since you will have limited larva.
When and where to make macro hatches.
If anything... Zerg will be harder on micro side but a bit easier on macro side.
Speaking of macro hatches... if a zerg opens up with 2 hatches and a macro hatch ( closer to the cliffs )... it might stop the canon rushes forever.
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On August 17 2015 18:00 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:
If anything... Zerg will be harder on micro side but a bit easier on macro side.
If it hasn't arrive to you yet, this is the main point people are complaining about. Some want to maintain the hard macro mechanics, rather than moving the hard parts over towards micro and other categories.
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On August 17 2015 18:40 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 18:00 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:
If anything... Zerg will be harder on micro side but a bit easier on macro side. If it hasn't arrive to you yet, this is the main point people are complaining about. Some want to maintain the hard macro mechanics, rather than moving the hard parts over towards micro and other categories.
But this isnt minecraft... just my opinion.
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Really don't like the direction this is going, sounds like they're not even considering to test alternate economical approaches. Also I'd rather see inject removed as well as it being auto-cast.
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Does anyone have any information about the release date?
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EPT
