Here is a build I made for PvT. Basically you get 4 gates and a proxy warp prism, drop 4 adepts and warp in 4 adepts. I have some unreasonably high win rates with it, if others are interested in abusing it here is the build / tutorial:
I have been trying to use this build to show how imba adepts are against terran in the early game. They shred marines and almost kill a marauder 1 on 1. Since protoss production is front loaded it's unrealistic to have 8 marauders out in time (3:40). Adepts do not die to a mine shot. With prism micro, you can pick up hurt ones and roll them back like blink. This also cancels the lock on attack from a cyclone, rendering them quite useless.
Against my terran friends who are also low masters, this build and variations of it are pretty notorious. None of them have found a way to hold it which is NOT kill the prism before it happens. Since you have about 20 marines max when this hits (3 rax openers) you cannot cover even a single side of your main fully. If the warp in goes through, the game is over.
Now, I posted this a battle.net and had a good number of people say "what about this what if that" and believe me we have tried most everything. Still however I have been challenged to beat some terrans much better than myself in HOTS to really prove it is imba. I tried to find gm HOTS terrans (or currently gm LOTV) on battle.net but no one volunteered to play. If someone here wants to try it out, we should play a few.
There is no way to hold it partially because adepts have too many flat stats on them right now.
I went over this on my stream but adepts have more health/shields than blink stalkers, mobility with no upgrade required, an upgrade to make them even tankier, and even cost less than a stalker.
I'm pretty sure blizzard will change them soon, their stats are completely messed up at the moment. Pretty much every single TvP in beta at the moment is adept abuse and also being able to expand + afford an oracle and you have a free lead because Terran has to overdefend vs two threats that require entirely different responses.
Turret b4 ebay would help out a lot vs oracles...except the problem is adepts themselves too.
I am a HotS "high" master terran and I played around 50 games LotV so far - I definitely have to agree on your analysis!
Adepts basically destroy all viable terran early game units (marines, hellions, reaper) due to their bonus damage vs light units. Marauders don't go down immediately, but I would not consider them as particular "good" against adepts (no bonus damage etc.). You also need really early techlabs to produce them and you will be in trouble against any early air aggression such as mothership core harass or oracle play. Please keep also in mind that you definitely have to wall-in against adept play because they can easily bypass your bunker with their ability.
I also think that adepts are way too "tanky" in protoss mid- and lategame army compositions
you can hold it with 1/1/1 if you continiously make marines off reactors, cyclone off factory and banshee on starport, and make 2 bunkers in base and at front if you see protoss at one base and get 1-2 cyclones out while delaying.
Problem is that you can swap between stalker and adepts with it, which gives problem since cyclones are bad vs followup after this if they produce immortal+stalkers as cycloens do not do well vs cyclones at all until you get upgrades due to expense and slow build time- you need to open siege tanks against stalkers and if protoss decides to swap midway through, its gets pretty bad as stalkers and adept require 2 different responses from factory.
Bio openers are fine with it if you open marauders instead of marines- that seems to be way to go nowdays.
On July 28 2015 17:06 StaN.de wrote: I am a HotS "high" master terran and I played around 50 games LotV so far - I definitely have to agree on your analysis!
Adepts basically destroy all viable terran early game units (marines, hellions, reaper) due to their bonus damage vs light units. Marauders don't go down immediately, but I would not consider them as particular "good" against adepts (no bonus damage etc.). You also need really early techlabs to produce them and you will be in trouble against any early air aggression such as mothership core harass or oracle play. Please keep also in mind that you definitely have to wall-in against adept play because they can easily bypass your bunker with their ability.
I also think that adepts are way too "tanky" in protoss mid- and lategame army compositions
Adepts are incredibly strong early game and when shield timing hits for sure, but lategame not all that great as advertised. Its just another protoss gateway meatshield with poor damage except it has 280 or so hp
Basically this. Why did they remove it, again ? Was bad for the diversity of the game ? After 3 years, can we allow the terrans to actually play during the early game without risking to GG because they left the mineral line ?
On July 28 2015 17:07 jinjin5000 wrote: you can hold it with 1/1/1 if you continiously make marines off reactors, cyclone off factory and banshee on starport, and make 2 bunkers in base and at front if you see protoss at one base and get 1-2 cyclones out while delaying.
This looks like a really really useful and viable opening against protoss. I like the "banshee & 2 bunkers" part the most :D #JustKidding
On July 28 2015 17:07 jinjin5000 wrote: you can hold it with 1/1/1 if you continiously make marines off reactors, cyclone off factory and banshee on starport, and make 2 bunkers in base and at front if you see protoss at one base and get 1-2 cyclones out while delaying.
This looks like a really really useful and viable opening against protoss. I like the "banshee & 2 bunkers" part the most :D #JustKidding
I usually reaper expand and then grab the other gas if i see protoss going adept or 1 basing and make bunkers instead of making cc with factory and starport. You can squeeze it out barely and maybe come out bit ahead or little bit behind depending on how much scvs adept killed when you pull it.
You need to identify if its 1 base blink or adept and then make siege tank or cyclone depending on it. Siege tanks are horrid vs adept but needed vs blink stalker/or whatever immortal push they do. You need cyclones against adept but its bad vs non-adepts
cyclones are NOT very good against adepts when there is a warp prism involved. The lock on is immediately ruined if the protoss drop micros well. The base DPS is not very good for the cyclone. The adepts struggle to kill them quickly but the thing with a very long fight is too many scvs will die. Like yes you can kill all the adepts with 2 banshees, but you will have exactly zero scvs alive after
On July 28 2015 17:02 avilo wrote: There is no way to hold it partially because adepts have too many flat stats on them right now.
I went over this on my stream but adepts have more health/shields than blink stalkers, mobility with no upgrade required, an upgrade to make them even tankier, and even cost less than a stalker.
I'm pretty sure blizzard will change them soon, their stats are completely messed up at the moment. Pretty much every single TvP in beta at the moment is adept abuse and also being able to expand + afford an oracle and you have a free lead because Terran has to overdefend vs two threats that require entirely different responses.
Turret b4 ebay would help out a lot vs oracles...except the problem is adepts themselves too.
On July 28 2015 17:02 avilo wrote: There is no way to hold it partially because adepts have too many flat stats on them right now.
I went over this on my stream but adepts have more health/shields than blink stalkers, mobility with no upgrade required, an upgrade to make them even tankier, and even cost less than a stalker.
I'm pretty sure blizzard will change them soon, their stats are completely messed up at the moment. Pretty much every single TvP in beta at the moment is adept abuse and also being able to expand + afford an oracle and you have a free lead because Terran has to overdefend vs two threats that require entirely different responses.
Turret b4 ebay would help out a lot vs oracles...except the problem is adepts themselves too.
Who would have thought that a unit that has better stats than all other units that can be fielded at the same time and comes of the warpgate could cause problems?
On July 28 2015 16:43 Goat_sc wrote: Here is a build I made for PvT. Basically you get 4 gates and a proxy warp prism, drop 4 adepts and warp in 4 adepts. I have some unreasonably high win rates with it, if others are interested in abusing it here is the build / tutorial:
Did you ever loose with this build, if yes, what was the T player defense?
the only win I get against this was due to 2wm that shot down the prism before it can drop anything, otherwise I always loose too many scv, mainly due to the fact that adept can over pass bunker and go to your mineral line or your production buildings.
I see no point in making guides for imbalanced units that are going to get patched soon, this Video was a prime example of how Adepts are just over powered. No offense, but there wasn't really much to learn from this video guide, except that Adepts are OP.
On July 28 2015 16:43 Goat_sc wrote: Here is a build I made for PvT. Basically you get 4 gates and a proxy warp prism, drop 4 adepts and warp in 4 adepts. I have some unreasonably high win rates with it, if others are interested in abusing it here is the build / tutorial:
Did you ever loose with this build, if yes, what was the T player defense?
the only win I get against this was due to 2wm that shot down the prism before it can drop anything, otherwise I always loose too many scv, mainly due to the fact that adept can over pass bunker and go to your mineral line or your production buildings.
I lost 2 games on ladder so far. One was the same, I fumbled the prism near a mine. The mine not only killed the prism (with marines helping) it also killed 4 adepts while warping in. The other a player managed to delay me from landing for long enough that his natural paid off and he could kill the adepts with bio + cyclone. My rate with the build is in the 90's I believe, yet my overall win rate is still near 50% due to losing to zergs rip
On July 29 2015 06:24 GGzerG wrote: I see no point in making guides for imbalanced units that are going to get patched soon, this Video was a prime example of how Adepts are just over powered. No offense, but there wasn't really much to learn from this video guide, except that Adepts are OP.
I say in the like my 3rd sentence I am using this build / vid as evidence that they are OP against terran. Did you not read that? The goal is much more to convince people that terran needs help with adepts more so than to actually teach people something.
I'm getting the feeling more people here believe adepts are too strong against terran compared to other places I have posted this, but elsewhere I was getting a ton of resistance to the idea
EPT
