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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
time as in travel distance, having you production wherever you want at any point completely negates reinforcement time and counter play, limiting mobility options. what I'm saying that you can fit this cog into the machine, but it breaks the machine, theres tons and tons of band-aid fixes everywhere, along with plenty of other things besides warpgate, that are the reason to how one-dimensional this game is. | ||
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hefa
Finland22 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On July 23 2015 16:47 Musicus wrote: It completely depends on the phase of the game, but yeah in the late game chargelots from a warpprism are the best harassment and often do a lot of damage I think. At least in PvZ. Just yesterday we saw it in code A (Symbol vs Hurricane). The point is that zergling run-bys are still more powerful. Zealot harassment was working because Zerg bases often have no defence even at pro level, whereas every Protoss base will have extra investment in wall-offs and other defences because otherwise zergling run-bys are game-ending. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
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pzlama333
United States282 Posts
Protoss gateway units are not strong by themselves. They have more HP than their counterpart but much lower DPS. But a battle between 10 stalkers and 5 zealots against 10 marines +3 marauders or 10 lings+10 roaches is always favored by Protoss. However, once Terran and Zerg got enough units, Protoss must retreat and wait for higher-tech units. | ||
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fenix404
United States305 Posts
does anyone else think that doesn't sound all that great? protoss taking a third on almost all of the current maps is pretty tough as is, imo. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 23 2015 21:12 fenix404 wrote: did anyone else catch the part about buffing zergling harass? does anyone else think that doesn't sound all that great? protoss taking a third on almost all of the current maps is pretty tough as is, imo. I'm pretty sure David Kim is talking about overlord drops and the increased damage from adrenalin glands here. | ||
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Sosuka
Germany13 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 23 2015 21:27 Sosuka wrote: Well nerfing the warpin abillity whould break the balance completly. Its not fact that early warpins are to strong. It is fact that zealots, adepts and the mothership core are just super strong in early game. I dont think that in midgame any of this is an issue vs zerg. And terran laughs about every gateway unit (apart from the adept anyway). So the only right thing to do is to balance the adept and you are good to go. To do so the most logic way whould be to give adepts an extra upgrade that is required to make them stronger combat units. This way they whouldn't be that strong in phases of the game where they cant be countered accordingly. For example: early game ZvP adepts have no counter and can freely move in mineral lines. Why is that? Because roach tech is expensive and puts you behind economicaly, zerglings are weak vs high amount of adepts and in general adepts have to much HP and it takes to long to kill them. Conclusion reduce their attackspeed or dmg and give them an upgrade that has long research time so the zerg has a bit more time to prepare. This might also help terran in early game, where adepts just are to good currently. Yeah I agree they come too strong too early but are interesting. I don't know what can be made to need an upgrade so that Protoss can still use adepts early game but they're not too strong. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada951 Posts
On July 23 2015 11:15 ffadicted wrote: I don't understand. I thought it was overall agreed that protoss is doing terrible in the beta, and this is a Protoss update that mostly only talks about nerfing Protoss? This is quite dishearting as a player to read. Protoss, in my opinion, is a broken race right now and it's quickly headed into the "unplayable" category for me, and all we get is updates on how to nerf the good parts of the race. Is there a source on this? I can't recall reading much about protoss being underpowered, save for maybe an artosis blog from like 6 months ago. | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On July 23 2015 22:00 Little-Chimp wrote: Is there a source on this? I can't recall reading much about protoss being underpowered, save for maybe an artosis blog from like 6 months ago. Look at the tournaments if you don't trust the personal experience of people on here. PvZ right now is almost at a stage were Protoss either all-ins or looses, and thanks to the Adept the all-ins got a lot more powerfull, so maybe it is actually close to beeing 50% winrate, but that itself is not a good thing, because Protosses only option right now, basically is to all-in which is not all that fun =3 | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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KT_Elwood
Germany1202 Posts
Warp In Zealots, set waypoint (=Movecommand) and attack other location. They will come from an unexpected angle and force the other player into Multitasking or losing a Line of Workers. They also Honeybadger PFs (Hold command in the minerals line) and Bunkers, and everythng above 4 zealots will clear some spines and Queens NP. If zealots are send in to the front, its no run by. If they are shift-clicked around, there is a possibility they will be spotted. Zealots are super-effective instant reproduce Throw-away units for harassment. If it works, great, if not...meh. At least the other player is occupied for some seconds, has to split attention and army to find the Pylon. Splitting Warpinpower and Pylonpower is weird and complicated. Change warpgames, make the Zealot and High templar the only units that can be warped in. HT is not instant effective and Zealot is a core unit. for that you need the Archon-morphtime significantly longer. Almost all aggressive Moves, that are not considered Cheese in protoss play involve and Army that could guard a building pylon against the opposing force already. If the protoss decides to Moveout, he most likely leaves a trace of Pylons anyway. So warp/power pylons would only make things...strange Make the zealot the only unit that can be warped with Warpgate. Add the "Observatory" that unlocks observers and has an upgrade "Advanced Warp-Capacitor" that allows the Warpin of all gateway units. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 23 2015 22:12 Arvendilin wrote: Look at the tournaments if you don't trust the personal experience of people on here. PvZ right now is almost at a stage were Protoss either all-ins or looses, and thanks to the Adept the all-ins got a lot more powerfull, so maybe it is actually close to beeing 50% winrate, but that itself is not a good thing, because Protosses only option right now, basically is to all-in which is not all that fun =3 Yeah this is all-in before brood lord infestor is reached all over again. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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lDragonn
4 Posts
All of u people need to understand something first: Stop looking by ur race issue and start thinking o the general game problem. So, lets think: Why the currently state of WG needs a nerf? Is every Toss winning by just simply making the offensive pylon? Im sure that is not. If u nerf WG, keep in mind that TOss u have no other choise than just play on defense until reach 200/200. Looks like the game producers just stop making game tests and let this to the players. We do agree that Blizz take the rigth way when they listen to te players, but they need to assume control of the situation and stop doing a "every week test". Common, do u guys have an internal team of producers that acctually play the game? In another words, wold be so much better if they do a ton of internal tests before closing the eyes and just post your thougts. Please keep in mind that u cannot mess the scent of the game, beacuse TOss is the technollogical race, so needs a demonstration of this. Im the currently state, Terran are so far away in tech than Toss, looking that they just prepared for war, as long toss looks like a race who dont have war strategy. Make the units of Toss looks like warriors, not such babyes that it is. The zelot, that is the icon of Toss, just look like a suicide unit that aways say: "We cannot hold"??!! *on BW he says: "My life for aiur" Resuming, TOss dont need any nerf, they need a war logic, like terrans and zerg, who have a struture like MMM, ling/bane/muta. Toss have Zealot/stalker/(....)? So, whit this, no matter if u add HP or AP, the unnity design (functions) that has to make sense in terns of mobilit/power. So, please Blizz, u have the power to make the game a legend, to raise then at the top of E-sports, please, dont waste the chance. Put ur guys to work and to think. PS. Sorry about my bad english. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On July 23 2015 19:54 Meavis wrote: your bias is showing, you expect terran to deal with an army on top of their production any better than protoss? instead of having their production cycle out of place, it's simply dead because they can't produce anywhere on the map. time as in travel distance, having you production wherever you want at any point completely negates reinforcement time and counter play, limiting mobility options. what I'm saying that you can fit this cog into the machine, but it breaks the machine, theres tons and tons of band-aid fixes everywhere, along with plenty of other things besides warpgate, that are the reason to how one-dimensional this game is. The game is designed like that on purpose, where races have particular strengths. Hence timings are worked out based on these strengths and weaknesses. ie. PvT - Terran being strong in the midgame. | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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