EPTLegacy of the Void Feedback Update – June 17 - Page 5
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Bannt
United States73 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On June 18 2015 11:42 Plexa wrote: I've channeled a lot of my life into BW and now SC2 but now whenever I think about LotV I just feel dejected. Bingo. I didn't play or follow BW, but I had more fun with WOL than any other game. I feel like the real issue here is that Blizzard thinks they can just add or subtract spells and units and their game will be great. But the fundamentals are broken. The economic system is clearly worn out, and the proposed LOTV economy is forced when it doesn't have to be. Positional play has been dead forever in nearly every match up. Mobile units are far too strong, there is far to many counters to positional units (Vipers, Raven HSM, ect), and the maps are too big. Early aggressive play is dead. The number of viable playstyles is very limited. The game is boring. And the Liberator is such a slap in the face to everyone who likes the Siege Tank. Such a slap right in the face. First Blizzard nerfed the hell out of the Siege Tank and made maps huge so the Tank sucked while adding in units like Immortal to crush Tanks. Then David Kim said Siege Tanks promoted "boring" play shortly after releasing the Swarm Host. Then we got the Viper with so many spells to screw over Tanks it is ridiculous. And now they want to do the same thing to they Siege Tank they did to the Carrier when they released the Tempest: make a unit with similar abilities. Such a slap in the face. They should have fixed the Carrier for HOTS instead of releasing the Tempest, and it took them until the LOTV Beta to realize this. Now just fix the Tank already, and remove all the spells that destroy positional play. On June 18 2015 14:51 jotmang-nojem wrote: - Many high-profile personalities such as Artosis, Day9, etc have left the scene - Casters deride the design of SC2 on their personal streams. Even the korean casters sometimes say, "Did you see that DK?" on the official live stream! - Many progamers have retired - Ax.Crank said on his stream he and many other progamers will retire if the game comes out like this, it's just not fun - View numbers are in the shitter - SC2 has been dropped from many high-profile tournaments All you Blizzard apologists should stop deriding the community and lay the blame where it belongs. See above is the proper response when someone says that we shouldn't be negative, ect... Regardless of how you feel about how good or bad LOTV is, those things are happening and that is bad. Also, no one is streaming LOTV. When the HOTS beta came out, people switched over very quickly and at this time during the HOTS beta just about every stream was for HOTS. At the moment I write this, there are two people streaming LOTV with 7 viewers. That isn't because LOTV is the greatest game to come out of Blizzard. And the final slap in the face to fans in general is all this talk about their "internal discussions." They should open their discussions to community, though I'm not sure how much that will help because what is abundantly obvious is they think the battles should come down to LoL micro with the Viper, Ravager, Disruptor, ect... strategy be damned. SC2 needs a new design team. | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
On June 18 2015 15:47 Bannt wrote: It's not about people being brainless wankers. It's about the large group of kids posting who have no perspective. Right. I'd argue that defending SC2's design team for the sake of "maturity" is the chief attitude that lacks perspective here. How can anyone who's played the game since release still approve the direction the devs are taking? We've got to make noise now, if ever. | ||
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Bannt
United States73 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
That doesn't mean that the attitude the community takes is in the slightest justified. The hopeless negativity that plagues it contributes absolutely nothing. What has the continuous complaining done apart from turn people away from this community and the game? The attitude that things are bad, and therefore I'm justified to join the hate bandwagon to make things worse is one of the most harmful things to the game. Going around calling the devs. retards isn't going to make anything better. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote: What has the continuous complaining done apart from turn people away from this community and the game? And where has logical and level headed constructive criticism gotten us with Blizzard? I'm not saying people need to be toxic, but to argue that it somehow sets us back is totally wrong. Blizzard doesn't listen to us no matter how logical and constructive our ideas are. The TL strategy purposed economy (double harvesting) is the clearest evidence of this. | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:10 Bannt wrote: Making noise is fine. Making good arguments is fine. But alot of stuff being thrown around is garbage. Guess there's not much that can be done about it though. I just wish people would think before they post. Most of the posts I see on TL aren't garbage. One could argue the more agressive ones lack diplomacy but really, these days, Blizzard deserves the outrage. This DKim update is nothing short of revolting. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:19 BronzeKnee wrote: And where has the logical and level headed constructive criticism gotten us? I'm not saying people need to be toxic, but to argue that it somehow sets us back is totally wrong. Blizzard doesn't listen no matter how logical and constructive the idea is. Let's assume that Blizzard doesn't listen to us no matter what, as you seem to think. What is your complaining for then apart from turning people away from the game? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Let's assume that Blizzard doesn't listen to us no matter what as you seem to think. What is your complaining for then apart from turning people away from the game? Cathartic release for me. That is exactly what it is. I don't complain because I hate SC2 or the community, I complain because I love SC2. | ||
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Bannt
United States73 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:19 BronzeKnee wrote: And where has the logical and level headed constructive criticism gotten us? I'm not saying people need to be toxic, but to argue that it somehow sets us back is totally wrong. Blizzard doesn't listen to us no matter how logical and constructive the idea is. The TL strategy purposed economy (double harvesting) is the clearest evidence of this. Let's say i'm a random guy who used to play who is thinking about getting back into it for LotV. I decide to go to TL and check out some threads about how the game is progressing. What do I find? A community that is filled with people complaining and talking shit! Oh no! the game must be horrible, the community has shriveled into a toxic mess. I have to dig to find any good discussion. Guess it's not worth my time, and I certainly don't want to try and join this community. When in reality, it'll probably be a pretty good/fun game. Maybe not an all time great game, but a pretty damn good game, this is blizzard after all. The community is VERY important for a game, if we don't strive to keep the community positive and constructive then the game dies that much faster, and the game gets less and less support from blizz/tournament hosting/community figures. Arguing that a toxic community "doesn't set us back" is a slippery slope, let's not go down that road. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:23 BronzeKnee wrote: Cathartic release for me. That is exactly what it is. I don't complain because I hate SC2 or the community, I complain because I love SC2. I hope you understand the price of your catharsis then. | ||
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curutcis
San Marino284 Posts
On June 18 2015 14:58 insitelol wrote: Am I the only one who freaking expoldes with anger when i see another blizzard post about "being deeply concerned with your opinion" followed by imbecile comment on how they *cough.. * "designed" liberator with the help of the community. Fucking what? "We made liberator with ground weapon only but suddenly realised (due to feedback (!!!!!) that it overlaps with siege tank (fuck yes you need ~100k people to provide feedback on fucking obvious things, next time they will need feedback to realise they live on earth) and deсided to make it (!!!!!) a valkyrie (what?). This is just pathetic. Some mental desorder is clearly an issue here. The question is how can one design RTS with such a disease. Dude , you just need to relax.. and just accept that Blizz is doing ok-ish in terms of game development.The fact that they are providing some transparency should be only meet with a pozitive attitude.They don't have to do this....and still they are doing it...for us...the community. IMO LotV will be a great game with or without the negativity that some of us point on Blizz.I don't give a fuck if the Liberator overlaps with the siege tank, or that now it seems "pretty similar" with a valkyrie....it's fucking BETA!!!! From what i've seen from people who where fortunate to have LotV, the game is way more fun than HotS, cause of the insta action you get from the first minute of the game (multiplayer mode). BTW this "mental disorder" you talk about broght you Broodwar,WoL and HotS.The question is how can one(you) play games designed by developers who all suffer from a mental disorder? PS.What if LotV BETA have a ladder system?.......What if? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
This sums up the attitude of the SC2 devs perfectly imho. They still haven't understood it. It hasn't clicked that they're making the game for these people, for their audience. Not for themselves This 100%. Remember all the times David Kim has said Forcefields are fun because they take skill and you can "counter" them by predicting where they wil be casted!. Meanwhile most players want it gone. That's not to say that community members actually know exactly how to balance protoss in a better way, but they know what's fun and what isn't, and David Kim should listen to that and try to make changes that the target group will enjoy. The difference between working on a mod (like Starbow or something similar) and being lead designer for an AAA company is that the former can make the make the game he would like to play while the latter is paid to make a game that's enjoyable for the audience (not him self). David Kim clearly hasn't understood that concept. | ||
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
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gkts
Germany56 Posts
On June 18 2015 03:24 Charoisaur wrote: I've never heard so much stupidity. So the solution to encourage players to go bio is making mech even worse so nothing else than bio is viable. brilliant! What the fuck is wrong with you? Finally the community gets a response and the first reply in the thread on TL is an insult. So is the third. No wonder Blizz replies only on reddit and their own forums if they just get bullshitted on TL. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:50 gkts wrote: What the fuck is wrong with you? Finally the community gets a response and the first reply in the thread on TL is an insult. So is the third. No wonder Blizz replies only on reddit and their own forums if they just get bullshitted on TL. Wait , what? Pointing out something that really doesn't make any sense at all, is now an insult? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On June 18 2015 16:38 Hider wrote: This 100%. Remember all the times David Kim has said Forcefields are fun because they take skill and you can "counter" them by predicting where they wil be casted!. Meanwhile most players want it gone. That's not to say that community members actually know exactly how to balance protoss in a better way, but they know what's fun and what isn't, and David Kim should listen to that and try to make changes that the target group will enjoy. The difference between working on a mod (like Starbow or something similar) and being lead designer for an AAA company is that the former can make the make the game he would like to play while the latter is paid to make a game that's enjoyable for the audience (not him self). David Kim clearly hasn't understood that concept. David Kim should understand this because of his Computer Science background: As a developer you can assess the feasibility and cost of various implementation schemes and you might have the necessary skills to execute them. This means you can offer critical feedback to domain experts that desire certain things from your product and help provide guidance to give their requests concrete shape. However, you do not assume to know better than them because you are the developer and they are just the user, that's a faux-pas. If people don't like forcefield you don't tell them they are wrong for disliking it and you're going to ignore their requests, you should search for solutions instead. To be honest, the fact Blizzard proved largely incapable of this makes me believe that we are not their constituency and they are not accountable to us. (that or incompetence) | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 18 2015 06:06 ObamaToss wrote: Jesus the sense of entitlement among some of the SC2 community is unbelievable. Compare LOTV's development to many other games. A publically traded company is delaying the release of the game for a year+ while letting players play for free(I realize the open beta is a ways off, but still). They're being incredibly transparent about their thought process and taking a ton of feedback into account. I don't have beta but LotV already looks like a great, fun, exciting game to watch and play. 90% of other companies would have released a half baked game after a 1 month beta with a day 0 patch plus withhold 25% of the content for a paid DLC pack. I for one really appreciate the way bliz handling LotV. I wanted to say this, but you said it better so I just quote you  I have beta access and rarely play HotS anymore because when I have time for Starcraft, I prefer LotV. Even though I get rekt almost every match, it is so much fun. Because of the faster start, having a match is not such a time investment anymore. And it feels great to almost immediately build structures once the game has been started. One has to get rid of the mindset "How I see/play the game is the correct way". I have much more fun in it to play around with the tech choices and units I have to figure out how to play best for my style, instead of asking Blizzard to change the game to cater to my style. On June 18 2015 16:33 curutcis wrote: PS.What if LotV BETA have a ladder system?.......What if? Some player would me more concerned with their rank than bother to try out new things. | ||
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Bannt
United States73 Posts
One has to get rid of the mindset "How I see/play the game is the correct way". I have much more fun in it to play around with the tech choices and units I have to figure out how to play best for my style, instead of asking Blizzard to change the game to cater to my style. This is a good sentiment. It would make a lot of people better gamers even outside of the context lotv design. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 18 2015 17:42 Grumbels wrote: If people don't like forcefield you don't tell them they are wrong for disliking it and you're going to ignore their requests, you should search for solutions instead. To be honest, the fact Blizzard proved largely incapable of this makes me believe that we are not their constituency and they are not accountable to us. (that or incompetence) I hate force fields as well. I don't like to play with them, against them, or see them in pro streams. There still could be good arguments in favour of it, even though I am not liking them. It could be that force fields provide the uncertainty required to keep matches tense even if a player is on the losing side, maybe he can get back with some very good force fields or maybe the other player can lose his lead if he builds sentries but places forcefield badly. I don't know if that is the case. But having the community liking something or not, is not the only argument to be made when designing a game. Let's assume, force fields get cut and Protoss gets rebalanced. Then other things which are disliked, get into the focus. There will be always some things which are disliked. Remember the time when Protoss disliked the marauders? | ||
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