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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I'd like them to rework it so that the liberator has more of a support role for ground (AA is fine). Maybe a single target stun in area instead of dealing damage? I'm also fine with the model. Better than the cyclone at least, looks like a crossover between a scout and a valkyrie :D And I agree that the huge ranges need to stop. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
Just imagine that when you are stuck with 7rax 1fac 1starport and your opponent Zerg goes Ultra switch WTF are u gonna do? Build fac from scratch? that ain't gonna work. Terran is commited to 1 tech tree, 1 TECH TREE ONLY there ain't no way in hell you can transition outta that. That's why there are multiple units with the same purpose, so stop complaining. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 24 2015 18:35 HallofPain4444 wrote: Terran units need to be a little OP and more cost effective than the other races, especially Zerg. Cuz Zerg has Hatcheries which produces army units, which is the most OP building ever. How bout make Zerg units come out from say Hydra den or Roach warren instead of Hatches that would make the game balanced LOL. Just imagine that when you are stuck with 7rax 1fac 1starport and your opponent Zerg goes Ultra switch WTF are u gonna do? Build fac from scratch? that ain't gonna work. Terran is commited to 1 tech tree, 1 TECH TREE ONLY there ain't no way in hell you can transition outta that. That's why there are multiple units with the same purpose, so stop complaining. Pure bias. First, Terran is not even forced to commit to 1 tech tree. Common TvZ/P matches are Bio into some Mech support. Mech works very well in TvT and TvZ. BioTank is the rule in TvT and involves both Bio and Mech. GumiHo and some Proleague players are even trying approaches to BioMech in TvP. Styles are playable, strong and viable. There is no 1 tech tree committement, specially with new units being designed to be played with Bio. Maybe you are not having a good prespective. Most Terrans say that Terran only has 2 styles: Bio and Mech. Which is false. The only thing you've correctly pointed out is that transitioning out of that is a pain. Most of the strong units you would use in a Mech compo are very limited in production, tied to tech lab and with long build times, compared to the productive strength of Reactored buildings. The fact that production strength is lower and tech switches harder doesn't even mean, not at all, that Terran needs 75DPS 15 range air unit. Because do you know what happens when you have OP units? Deathballs. Maybe we have to rethink the macromechanics for Terran and review the productive strength for Factory/Rax. Or nerf ultras. Not to have a unit that has a mechanic which is 70% Tempest 30% siege tank and has 8 times the power of a Tempest. By the way, Bio is probably the most cost-efficient composition in-game at and quite broken. Consider tech, and structural cost. Don't claim "we need OP units" simply because you can't have anticipation on tech switches or the productive strenght is restricted, which is a deep problem of Terran Mech. Adding more asimetry doesn't help anything and doesn't solve the problem that in fact, you can't have a good production, resulting in inviability of styles and difficulties to combine Bio and Mech. And by the way, Mech is crushing Zerg cost-wise, Bio crushes Zerg cost-wise but it's fairly balanced. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15952 Posts
On May 24 2015 19:17 JCoto wrote: Pure bias. First, Terran is not even forced to commit to 1 tech tree. Common TvZ/P matches are Bio into some Mech support. Mech works very well in TvT and TvZ. BioTank is the rule in TvT and involves both Bio and Mech. GumiHo and some Proleague players are even trying approaches to BioMech in TvP. Styles are playable, strong and viable. There is no 1 tech tree committement, specially with new units being designed to be played with Bio. Maybe you are not having a good prespective. Most Terrans say that Terran only has 2 styles: Bio and Mech. Which is false. The only thing you've correctly pointed out is that transitioning out of that is a pain. Most of the strong units you would use in a Mech compo are very limited in production, tied to tech lab and with long build times, compared to the productive strength of Reactored buildings. The fact that production strength is lower and tech switches harder doesn't even mean, not at all, that Terran needs 75DPS 15 range air unit. Because do you know what happens when you have OP units? Deathballs. Maybe we have to rethink the macromechanics for Terran and review the productive strength for Factory/Rax. Or nerf ultras. Not to have a unit that has a mechanic which is 70% Tempest 30% siege tank and has 8 times the power of a Tempest. By the way, Bio is the most cost-efficient composition in-game and quite broken. Don't claim "we need OP units" simply because you can't have anticipation on tech switches or the productive strenght is restricted, which is a deep problem of Terran Mech. Adding more asimetry doesn't help anything and doesn't solve the problem that in fact, you can't have a good production, resulting in inviability of styles and difficulties to combine Bio and Mech. And by the way, Mech is crushing Zerg cost-wise, Bio crushes Zerg cost-wise but it's fairly balanced. I love it when people discredit other opinions because of supposed bias and then make their own statements which are equally biased. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 24 2015 19:54 Charoisaur wrote: I love it when people discredit other opinions because of supposed bias and then make their own statements which are equally biased. Name any non-splash composition that is better than bio, or more efficient supply and cost-wise, at the same tech level and structural cost. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15952 Posts
On May 24 2015 20:41 JCoto wrote: Name any non-splash composition that is better than bio, or more efficient supply and cost-wise, at the same tech level and structural cost. who said anything about non-splash? your statement was that bio is the most cost efficient composition in the game, not that it's the best non-splash composition. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On May 22 2015 10:57 Spect8rCraft wrote: to complaining about how bad the new design in the patch isI feel like the biggest problem with these updates is that a lot of them are balance updates (as the title implies, obviously), when they really should be design updates; they should finagle with the roles of units directly and more often at this stage of development, and leave the fine-tuning of balancing later down the road, if the beta is really going to be as long as they imply. Change up some old units, give some TLC to neglected units, take the opportunity to fine-tune staple units, etc. They took a big first step with the economy change and the rush of changes in the beta debut, but they seemed to have shrunk back significantly since. On May 23 2015 19:25 Ramiz1989 wrote: @JCoto I know and agree with everything but it is just a Blizzard policy to release something idiotic and imbalanced to be tested and then nerf it to the ground later(Ravagers also comes to mind). The thing is, even with like 5 Nerfs that it should get, upping the supply and cost, reducing damage for AtG, reducing movement speed and maybe health, it is still stupidly designed unit. People complain about these long ranged units that are almost risk-free, like Swarm Hosts and Tempests, and then they add something like this to Terran as well. Got to feel a bit sorry for whoever at Blizzard is doing community management.  | ||
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StalkerFang
Australia68 Posts
On May 24 2015 20:41 JCoto wrote: Name any non-splash composition that is better than bio, or more efficient supply and cost-wise, at the same tech level and structural cost. Oh yeah?!? Well first you name any unit starting with the letter Z which has more DPS than a zergling!!!1! /s Bio is not 'broken' just because it happens to be the most powerful composition in the mid game at a specific tech level. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On May 24 2015 22:52 StalkerFang wrote: Oh yeah?!? Well first you name any unit starting with the letter Z which has more DPS than a zergling!!!1! /s Zealot. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
On May 24 2015 19:17 JCoto wrote: Pure bias. [...] By the way, Bio is probably the most cost-efficient composition in-game at and quite broken.[...] Hahaha :D And where are your facts to underline that your argument is not completely biased? I would say 99% of all posts on TL are biased. There are only a few people who make academic research on specific areas of SC2. Even those might be biased unless the authors are not playing SC2 or play random. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On May 24 2015 18:35 HallofPain4444 wrote: Terran units need to be a little OP and more cost effective than the other races, especially Zerg. Cuz Zerg has Hatcheries which produces army units, which is the most OP building ever. How bout make Zerg units come out from say Hydra den or Roach warren instead of Hatches that would make the game balanced LOL. Just imagine that when you are stuck with 7rax 1fac 1starport and your opponent Zerg goes Ultra switch WTF are u gonna do? Build fac from scratch? that ain't gonna work. Terran is commited to 1 tech tree, 1 TECH TREE ONLY there ain't no way in hell you can transition outta that. That's why there are multiple units with the same purpose, so stop complaining. Don't forget hatchs need queens. A standard Zerg macro vs zerg is 4 expansions + 1 macro hatch, and the queen. So 5 queens (same price than 5 rax), and 1 macro hatch (same than 2 rax), so same price than 7 rax, + 10 supply + injecting 5 times each 40s. Also hatchs way weaker (no repair/no shield regeneration) than other expansion while in fact not really cost effective : 50 for sacrified drone, + the lost of mining time, and add the lower supply from a hatchery, so you have to count the cost of supply. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
Well second thought as long as the super OP parasitic bomb still exists I don't see any air compostion would be viable lol. Not just Terran, Protoss and Zerg as well just can't commit to air cuz one parasitic bomb and it's GG. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On May 25 2015 00:26 HallofPain4444 wrote: Bio-Mech hybrid builds just don't work at high level. Gone are the days when 1-1-1 was viable. Bio and Mech have terrible terrible synergy. Now that there's a new unit in the Air force maybe Bio-Medivac into Air transition works? Well second thought as long as the super OP parasitic bomb still exists I don't see any air compostion would be viable lol. Not just Terran, Protoss and Zerg as well just can't commit to air cuz one parasitic bomb and it's GG. I have once or twice heard about his thing called micro where you don´t stack all of your units and you might get punished if you fail at it. If parasitic bomb is OP i´m sure it will be nerfed to a more reasonable state. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
On May 25 2015 00:32 RaFox17 wrote: I have once or twice heard about his thing called micro where you don´t stack all of your units and you might get punished if you fail at it. If parasitic bomb is OP i´m sure it will be nerfed to a more reasonable state. Micro against seeker missles? yes maybe. Against parasitic bomb? good luck kid. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On May 25 2015 00:59 HallofPain4444 wrote: Micro against seeker missles? yes maybe. Against parasitic bomb? good luck kid. Why is it impossible junior? | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 25 2015 00:32 RaFox17 wrote: I have once or twice heard about his thing called micro where you don´t stack all of your units and you might get punished if you fail at it. If parasitic bomb is OP i´m sure it will be nerfed to a more reasonable state. It's pretty intense. It's like being hit with storm on your mutas, except the storm follows your units and the spell itself tracks to your unit, ensuring it hits. And unlike storm, it stacks, and is casted by another flier, so they can easily manuever to you. | ||
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