Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk.
I imagine oracle + warpprism disruptor harass. Place a stasis ward, than attack some scv's to aggro the terran marines. Lure them into the stasis ward, drop the disruptor and time his explosion with the end of the ward. Good times.
What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adpept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Again, I understand you can micro against those new units/mechanics to some degree, but imo, they should go the other direction. That would be adding more simple, rts-like, basic stuff that would promote macro over micro.
I'm excited about LotV anyways, can't wait for beta to start.
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
On March 20 2015 19:03 deacon.frost wrote: Another question - stasis ward applies for ground unit only? In the hype video it was used against Hydras, but damn this could be cool against Mutalisks
yeah, I bet you are getting all hard just thinking about running a Templar there trying to unleash your stormy passion all over my defenseless mut-muts
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
I'd love it if the Adept (or any other Protoss ground unit) was actually fast. At least the mothership core allows for 1-2 warps, but the general lack of mobility and the comparatively slow movement speed of everything except blink stalkers makes me sad.
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
It looks like that's the role of Adept. It depends where in the tech tree it will be, this is what we don't know, but as it looks right now it has a "splash" damage, it has "blink" and it is not the slowest unit out there(greetings from Overlord, Templar). How do you defend your precious drones against this menace? We will know more once the tech tree is revealed
On March 20 2015 19:03 deacon.frost wrote: Another question - stasis ward applies for ground unit only? In the hype video it was used against Hydras, but damn this could be cool against Mutalisks
yeah, I bet you are getting all hard just thinking about running a Templar there trying to unleash your stormy passion all over my defenseless mut-muts
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
I guess San-gate? *shrug*
I want toss to be able to macro. What kills this race is that ( due to a lot of design choices ) we're kindda forced into all-ins in a lot of situations. If nydus at early timings can't be addressed by a macro build in LotV, don't complain that toss are always doing all-ins. Give us options..
On March 20 2015 19:03 deacon.frost wrote: Another question - stasis ward applies for ground unit only? In the hype video it was used against Hydras, but damn this could be cool against Mutalisks
yeah, I bet you are getting all hard just thinking about running a Templar there trying to unleash your stormy passion all over my defenseless mut-muts
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
I guess San-gate? *shrug*
in hots 3h before pool is the best build vs san gate.
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
2hatch and 3hatch before pool are not giving you a real advantage against a Nexus first so there doesn't need to be a build that punishes it. And then regardless of whether forge expand is a viable macro build or not, builiding a forge would still be a viable BO-win against 3hatch before pool so you could still punish it. Also proxy gates.
Though all of that of course is moot to discuss with the 12worker start in LotV.
On March 20 2015 19:12 Everlong wrote: What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Again, I understand you can micro against those new units/mechanics to some degree, but imo, they should go the other direction. That would be adding more simple, rts-like, basic stuff that would promote macro over micro.
I'm excited about LotV anyways, can't wait for beta to start.
There's a difference between being able to outplay your opponent to avoid the damage and learning a trick to be able to always avoid / nullify an ability independent of the skill level of your opponent. If you go to the other extreme, i.e. always being able to deal damage, then clearly that's more acceptable because it at least gives the ability a reason for existing. So that's why guaranteed damage exists and is often a safe design choice, it allows you to get at least some use out of it.
Psionic storm is a good example. Some people say that there should be a second delay to the spell with some graphic to warn you, but clearly that leads to storm being useless at high levels except for zoning. This is going into a mindset more reminiscent of playing vs AI where you can learn its behavior and eventually familiarize yourself sufficiently with it to the point it ceases to be a threat.
Let's look at the mechanics you mentioned: If the disruptor was not invulnerable then it would always die before dealing serious damage, unless you tweaked the stats to the point that it would become a baneling. If the viper spell did not deal guaranteed damage you would simply spread out your air units and it would be a waste of gas spent on your viper, but now it forces the death of at least one air unit. The tempest deals guaranteed damage, but it has to risk itself to cast the ability and if it was too easy to outheal or avoid the spell then trying to cast disintegration would be a pointless suicide mission unless again they tweaked the stats to make it much higher range. And the adept would just be useless in most situations (still some uses though) if you could immediately snipe the images.
On March 20 2015 19:03 deacon.frost wrote: Another question - stasis ward applies for ground unit only? In the hype video it was used against Hydras, but damn this could be cool against Mutalisks
yeah, I bet you are getting all hard just thinking about running a Templar there trying to unleash your stormy passion all over my defenseless mut-muts
...What?
On March 20 2015 19:24 Nyast wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:22 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:59 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: Have they talked about whether the battlecruiser ability would require you to cast it for each individual bc or if you could control + click a group and select a point to warp them all to? If its individual (meaning you need to click a new location for each bc) I can't help but feel like the ability will be near useless. Though if you can warp all at once I think it would be awesome to use with ravens. Spend a few PDDs to keep them safe during the teleport and then warp them all to one location
The problem with BC warp will be, even if executed ... what will the BCs accomplish once they warp in? They are still hard countered by Vikings / Voids / Stalkers / Corrupters. And if you warp in 50 supply of BCs without the rest of you army, they will fare just as badly. Maybe you can warp out and let the rest of your army (Ravens / Vikings) die. If the warp in costs more than Yamato, then a huge portion of the utility of the BC goes away when you use that warp in. And you also cant use warp in to quickly reinforce newly built BCs (which would be the best thing you could possibly do with this ability).
I'm talking about something more akin to mamma core + a few voidrays come in and snipe a base. Except instead of recall you use a PDD and warp out. Worst case you trade a raven for whatever you get, best case you trade energy.
On March 20 2015 09:05 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 09:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:56 ZAiNs wrote:
On March 20 2015 08:43 Elentos wrote: Can we stop complaining about the invincible nydus worm already? When reacted to appropriately, it's not going to do more than it does currently and it's still going to die a horrible death.
The concern is about Nydus all-ins mainly against Protoss who barely have anything out when Nydus hits; and the players in that video weren't taking it seriously at all >_>.
Yes but for that to happen you need to: -miss the Nydus Network in the Zerg's base when scouting -miss the Overlord giving vision to the Zerg player at the edge of your base -miss the Nydus Worm emerging inside of your base for 20 seconds
If all of that happens, I might as well kill you with Overlord drops.
How are you meant to kill the Nydus Worm when you opened Forge expand and have a Zealot, Stalker and MSc? I think the worker change could change the timings so you just about have enough if your units stay at home and don't wander off on the map.
Don't open forge expand. If its a case of balance it will be fixed, but if its a case of "muh build won't work anymore" then LotV will have a bunch of new openers
It's true in theory, but if a quick forge isn't viable anymore, then how does toss punish a Zerg that goes fast 3 hatch before pool ? Or even 2 hatch before pool, while getting stuck on a standard 1 gate expand ? Then playing behind in eco from the rest of the game...
So yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, it's too early to tell, but I certainly hope that on the flipside, greedy Zerg builds can be punished.
I guess San-gate? *shrug*
in hots 3h before pool is the best build vs san gate.
Well, interesting, I wouldn't know that, I just Terran things <.<
Adept Imo this unit wont add anything it is a slow stalker that cant shoot up -.- I think it would be better if they added a robo unit that actually could be a strong fighter (non aoe). Honestly it should be a really "boring" unit without any gimicky abilities to provide some stability to protoss.
Disruptor Problably to most intresting addition to protoss. I think it will add some interesting micro. I really hope this unit will make the colossus redundant.
Immortal Good change!
Oracle It is really hard to say anything about the stasis ward without seeing how it plays out in a game.
Tempest I played some on the custom Lotv thing and I really hope this don't stay for long. It will make it pointless for zerg/terran to ever build anything expensive because protoss will just tag it and kite. With this change the tempest will be even worse than the swarm host is now.
Carrier Anything to make the tempest redundant. Hopefully this will make carriers a legit transisiton.
Cyclone It looked super imba in the first previews and I dont really like the move and shoot at the same time thing but this unit can fill a very big hole in mech anti air so while it may not look very interesting it definitly adds something.
Battlecruiser AMAZING SCAN AND TELEPORT!? wtf this is just stupid.
Siege tank Siege tank does need some love but this change does not add anything to the essence of mech play.
Zerg I like all of the changes. Not sure about the corruptor change but they do need something extra.
12 Worker Super good! Removing dead time and stupid cheeses is appriciated!
Economy change Super good! The best change overall imo.
On March 20 2015 20:18 Gullis wrote: Adept Imo this unit wont add anything it is a slow stalker that cant shoot up -.- I think it would be better if they added a robo unit that actually could be a strong fighter (non aoe). Honestly it should be a really "boring" unit without any gimicky abilities to provide some stability to protoss.
Disruptor Problably to most intresting addition to protoss. I think it will add some interesting micro. I really hope this unit will make the colossus redundant.
Immortal Good change!
Oracle It is really hard to say anything about the stasis ward without seeing how it plays out in a game.
Tempest I played some on the custom Lotv thing and I really hope this don't stay for long. It will make it pointless for zerg/terran to ever build anything expensive because protoss will just tag it and kite. With this change the tempest will be even worse than the swarm host is now.
Carrier Anything to make the tempest redundant. Hopefully this will make carriers a legit transisiton.
Cyclone It looked super imba in the first previews and I dont really like the move and shoot at the same time thing but this unit can fill a very big hole in mech anti air so while it may not look very interesting it definitly adds something.
Battlecruiser AMAZING SCAN AND TELEPORT!? wtf this is just stupid.
Siege tank Siege tank does need some love but this change does not add anything to the essence of mech play.
Zerg I like all of the changes. Not sure about the corruptor change but they do need something extra.
12 Worker Super good! Removing dead time and stupid cheeses is appriciated!
Economy change Super good! The best change overall imo.
Or a strong dragoon that can only be beuilt from a normal gateway.
On March 20 2015 19:12 Everlong wrote: What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adpept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Yes I think so, too.
Additionally Zerg and Protoss now have abilities to zone Terran players out:
- Ravenger zones out into Banelings or Baneling mines - Oracle uses Stasis ward and freezes for 30 (!) seconds (and force fields)
Furthermore I expect to see a ton of new allins, thanks to the start with 12 workers. Zerg can go for early pool with speed or even pull drones with lings. Protoss 1 base will be insanely strong since you can easily get 2 gas early on.
The game will definately be more gimmicky and we will see less macro games I think.
On March 20 2015 20:18 Gullis wrote: Adept Imo this unit wont add anything it is a slow stalker that cant shoot up -.- I think it would be better if they added a robo unit that actually could be a strong fighter (non aoe). Honestly it should be a really "boring" unit without any gimicky abilities to provide some stability to protoss.
Disruptor Problably to most intresting addition to protoss. I think it will add some interesting micro. I really hope this unit will make the colossus redundant.
Immortal Good change!
Oracle It is really hard to say anything about the stasis ward without seeing how it plays out in a game.
Tempest I played some on the custom Lotv thing and I really hope this don't stay for long. It will make it pointless for zerg/terran to ever build anything expensive because protoss will just tag it and kite. With this change the tempest will be even worse than the swarm host is now.
Carrier Anything to make the tempest redundant. Hopefully this will make carriers a legit transisiton.
Cyclone It looked super imba in the first previews and I dont really like the move and shoot at the same time thing but this unit can fill a very big hole in mech anti air so while it may not look very interesting it definitly adds something.
Battlecruiser AMAZING SCAN AND TELEPORT!? wtf this is just stupid.
Siege tank Siege tank does need some love but this change does not add anything to the essence of mech play.
Zerg I like all of the changes. Not sure about the corruptor change but they do need something extra.
12 Worker Super good! Removing dead time and stupid cheeses is appriciated!
Economy change Super good! The best change overall imo.
Or a strong dragoon that can only be beuilt from a normal gateway.
Not a bad idea If they could bring back dragoons with same graphics as in broodwar that would be awesome. I think dragoons looked much better then stalkers in battles, even with their stupid AI. Bring back the blue blood!
Also the option to actually use your gateways in normal mode later in the game to get better units from them is nice. You surrender some defensive / offensive options to get a better army. Switching between gateway / warpgates should have a cooldown ( like 1 minute ) so once you make the change you have to stick with it for a while or you will have downtime on your production buildings.
Opponents noticing the change to gateways will have 1 minute and some seconds of easier harass.
On March 20 2015 19:12 Everlong wrote: What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adpept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Again, I understand you can micro against those new units/mechanics to some degree, but imo, they should go the other direction. That would be adding more simple, rts-like, basic stuff that would promote macro over micro.
I'm excited about LotV anyways, can't wait for beta to start.
The "shade" I can understand but man get that disruptor out of here. Seems like a terrible design.
On March 20 2015 20:18 Gullis wrote: Adept Imo this unit wont add anything it is a slow stalker that cant shoot up -.- I think it would be better if they added a robo unit that actually could be a strong fighter (non aoe). Honestly it should be a really "boring" unit without any gimicky abilities to provide some stability to protoss.
Disruptor Problably to most intresting addition to protoss. I think it will add some interesting micro. I really hope this unit will make the colossus redundant.
Immortal Good change!
Oracle It is really hard to say anything about the stasis ward without seeing how it plays out in a game.
Tempest I played some on the custom Lotv thing and I really hope this don't stay for long. It will make it pointless for zerg/terran to ever build anything expensive because protoss will just tag it and kite. With this change the tempest will be even worse than the swarm host is now.
Carrier Anything to make the tempest redundant. Hopefully this will make carriers a legit transisiton.
Cyclone It looked super imba in the first previews and I dont really like the move and shoot at the same time thing but this unit can fill a very big hole in mech anti air so while it may not look very interesting it definitly adds something.
Battlecruiser AMAZING SCAN AND TELEPORT!? wtf this is just stupid.
Siege tank Siege tank does need some love but this change does not add anything to the essence of mech play.
Zerg I like all of the changes. Not sure about the corruptor change but they do need something extra.
12 Worker Super good! Removing dead time and stupid cheeses is appriciated!
Economy change Super good! The best change overall imo.
Or a strong dragoon that can only be beuilt from a normal gateway.
Not a bad idea If they could bring back dragoons with same graphics as in broodwar that would be awesome. I think dragoons looked much better then stalkers in battles, even with their stupid AI. Bring back the blue blood!
Also the option to actually use your gateways in normal mode later in the game to get better units from them is nice. You surrender some defensive / offensive options to get a better army. Switching between gateway / warpgates should have a cooldown ( like 1 minute ) so once you make the change you have to stick with it for a while or you will have downtime on your production buildings.
Opponents noticing the change to gateways will have 1 minute and some seconds of easier harass.
Adepts have splash dmg for example and rely on gimmicks. A strong dragoon like immo hp with splash dmg and decent movement speed would achieve the same thing and give protoss another option/way to play. Kinda like mech terran. They can switch their composition to be more beefy and hit harder in exchange for losing agressive or quick defensive options. Also it is a shame that there is an entire production building basically unused for protoss.
On March 20 2015 19:12 Everlong wrote: What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Again, I understand you can micro against those new units/mechanics to some degree, but imo, they should go the other direction. That would be adding more simple, rts-like, basic stuff that would promote macro over micro.
I'm excited about LotV anyways, can't wait for beta to start.
There's a difference between being able to outplay your opponent to avoid the damage and learning a trick to be able to always avoid / nullify an ability independent of the skill level of your opponent. If you go to the other extreme, i.e. always being able to deal damage, then clearly that's more acceptable because it at least gives the ability a reason for existing. So that's why guaranteed damage exists and is often a safe design choice, it allows you to get at least some use out of it.
Psionic storm is a good example. Some people say that there should be a second delay to the spell with some graphic to warn you, but clearly that leads to storm being useless at high levels except for zoning. This is going into a mindset more reminiscent of playing vs AI where you can learn its behavior and eventually familiarize yourself sufficiently with it to the point it ceases to be a threat.
Let's look at the mechanics you mentioned: If the disruptor was not invulnerable then it would always die before dealing serious damage, unless you tweaked the stats to the point that it would become a baneling. If the viper spell did not deal guaranteed damage you would simply spread out your air units and it would be a waste of gas spent on your viper, but now it forces the death of at least one air unit. The tempest deals guaranteed damage, but it has to risk itself to cast the ability and if it was too easy to outheal or avoid the spell then trying to cast disintegration would be a pointless suicide mission unless again they tweaked the stats to make it much higher range. And the adept would just be useless in most situations (still some uses though) if you could immediately snipe the images.
Brood War storm had a delay and attack animation. It also didn't have smart cast and nobody in their right mind would call it useless in a pro game. EMP also has a small delay in sc2, its still usefeull.
Adept Another irritating kind of play from protoss. The video plays it up be we all know it will be warped right in front of ur face with little you can do about it till they appear. Doesn’t seem like a bad idea but it looks like its guaranteed to do damage. Wheres the counter or block for this?
Disruptor Sensing a pattern already, guaranteed to do damage, cant stop it or can we? Its of course unclear how this works, cant trust the mod maps they might have it wrong but again looks like an annoying unit
Warp Prism Well threes a charm, micro with this may become unstoppable, with the prism out of range it seems absurd, because it could be microed well enough in the early game against AA that you will all that and get the warp in for free Warp in In constrast to the above. Thank fuck
Immortal Good idea but only if the unit essentiall stays the same, if it gets to a point where they make the shield tank more than before, and the prism, thell just be lifted when duration passes and or stuttered micro bringing in recharged imms from the back.
Oracle Right now we are seeing some really excessive use of this unit and its scary. Make it more scary. Its good that the units when in stasis tho cant be killed but for 30 seconds . . . you can get across most maps in that time, what if you have 6 oracles, indefinite freeze? Macro for the best part of 10 mins and then doesn’t matter one froze forever froze? Not sure about this at all
Tempest Not bad, makes the unit more interesting
Carrier Late game unit so not expecting to see much of this
Terran Cyclone Seems like another annoying unit which will dominate the early game, no other unit seems it can stand a chance until ling speed, concussive shells or blink are done
New Terran Unit I think it should be something help dealing with balled up armies, ground and air a unit which snares a unit or grp of unit and brings them to the floor, kind of like an infester but this unit is something you mix in with ur army for utility. Not sure what else terran could have, they seem to have the lot covered
Battlecruiser Meh, good scouting wont make this an issue
Siege Tank Welcome to hell. I can see the good drop player just laughing all there way to a gsl title with this, accompanies with boost and dualing 2-3 vacs, even with 1 tank . . . . wont surprise me if this gets cut
Lurker Its just a short range sh but u cant at least kill the projectiles, it was good in bw, another siege slow unit, not sure where this would fit in Ravager This is a good unit. Ability to at least fight with the army you built rather than being map edited out of it by toss. The projective is so slow I cant see it actually being used successfully in the higher leagues, army splitting is too good these days and makes the ability sill unless u are getting through walls or fields. This may be the best unit added to the game
Corruptor With darks over use of them, this unit is getting much more love . . .and now they make it useful after its cleared ur air. What can u say, seems a great counter to all air in the game, even against itself!
Swarm Host Hmmm, the more I watch late game the more I feel zerg needs this unit. Yes it forces stalements, yes its boring but larva is a resource you have to keep up with and over the fights you don’t. zerg needed some retention in its army as the other races can warp in or drop on to the eco and take everything away. This unit at least made the opposition a little scared. The gas cost is too much. With the rate of minining and expanding the gas hasn’t been affected and its hard to go into too many gas heavy units, zergs have to pick 2 at most and mix in other units like this over time, id like a compromise of 150/150 plz
Nydus Worm
Like the toss units, its only going to work if ur sneaky. Depending on how big the area in the bases are going to be on the new maps this is going to become annoying if you don’t get full vision of your own bases. Terran may be sensor towering every map . . I fear for toss with this
Viper This unit has way too much utility. Give it more! Seems like this is going to be a staple unit in all compositions
EPT
