I think that Tempest values are incorrect in the Mod.
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?.
It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed.
BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair.
I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself.
On December 10 2014 23:57 JCoto wrote: I think that Tempest values are incorrect in the Mod.
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?.
It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed.
BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair.
I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself.
it's more like if irradiate did 500 damage and vs buildings or units, and didn't need biological target either. ANNNNND doesn't cost mana or require an upgrade.
Shit's as broken as it gets.
So what can we say about nerfing this instead of bitching though?
First of all, nerf the speed and range of the tempest. Give it equal tank range and make it's vision like the tank as well. Take the speed down to like 2, or 2.25 MAX. These bitches are way too fast for having that much HP and being a capital ship. It doesn't even look right. It looks silly when they swoop around all quick. (although they are fun as fuck to micro like that). It can be compared a lot to the Broodlord as well as far as tech tree, cost, etc. It's like a mechabroodlord.
As far as the ability, require an upgrade at the fleet beacon. 150/150 - 200/200 or something like that. a tempest cost 200/300 iirc.
Make the tempest have a mana pool. 200 max, 125 to cast it imo.
I think that might be perfect as far as balance could ever be with this thing.
Some might argue that the ability still does too much damage, or has too many possible targets. Well then perhaps only allow it to hit massive targets, or perhaps do not allow it to hit structures and non psionic units maybe (because queens). Or reduce the damage (175?) it has a more specific role of targets it's used for. Yea, I think 175 is the best one there.
Disruptors don't damage each other, but do friendly fire damage to other protoss units (similar to widow mines afaik). I don't see why that's necessary. The disruptors have immunity while charging, so if you take a group of disruptors and activate them all at once they could still all be immune to damage the exact moment they're charging. That seems like a better implementation. (this might require a tiny extension on the immunity)
The disruptor reminds me a lot of the shredder, I don't know if they will make it through testing in this state.
I think it's pretty balanced with the 30 second cool down honestly. If you miss at all they become completely useless for another 30 seconds in which if someone comes and fights you... 30 seconds is a huge timing...
They might need some small tweaking, but overall I think it's actually a good step forward. I like how it forces the protoss to micro specifically them in battles and that means terran will specifically be microing their bio -> visible micro battles -> more hype. While the disruptor is charging forward it also adds an huge amount of suspense to the battle, just like a reaver shooting a scarab.
I like it very much.
I don't know if they're overpowered (they can be balanced by cost) but they seem a bit punishing versus bad players, which Blizzard apparently doesn't like. They're not that difficult to use: you take three disruptors, activate charge, right click on your opponent's army, and then his army is gone. There isn't that much counterplay: you can't kill the disruptors and you can't run away. You can split, but that's more difficult to execute. And yes, it did cost you 900 gas, but those costs aren't as relevant for low level players. I see potential for the unit to be either useless or broken at various levels of play.
On December 10 2014 23:57 JCoto wrote: I think that Tempest values are incorrect in the Mod.
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?.
It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed.
BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair.
I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself.
it's more like if irradiate did 500 damage and vs buildings or units, and didn't need biological target either. ANNNNND doesn't cost mana or require an upgrade.
Shit's as broken as it gets.
So what can we say about nerfing this instead of bitching though?
First of all, nerf the speed and range of the tempest. Give it equal tank range and make it's vision like the tank as well. Take the speed down to like 2, or 2.25 MAX. These bitches are way too fast for having that much HP and being a capital ship. It doesn't even look right. It looks silly when they swoop around all quick. (although they are fun as fuck to micro like that). It can be compared a lot to the Broodlord as well as far as tech tree, cost, etc. It's like a mechabroodlord.
As far as the ability, require an upgrade at the fleet beacon. 150/150 - 200/200 or something like that. a tempest cost 200/300 iirc.
Make the tempest have a mana pool. 200 max, 125 to cast it imo.
I think that might be perfect as far as balance could ever be with this thing.
Some might argue that the ability still does too much damage, or has too many possible targets. Well then perhaps only allow it to hit massive targets, or perhaps do not allow it to hit structures and non psionic units maybe (because queens). Or reduce the damage (175?) it has a more specific role of targets it's used for. Yea, I think 175 is the best one there.
Well, what you've saying is to make it overcomplex and nerfed in many ways. The tempest is already very epensive for its use, if you make it that way it will become a latelatelate game unit with obvious counters (Raven, Corruptor, Fungal, Marines, EMP, Feedback...)
I feel that the tempest is in the exactly same spot as the ravager. Not bad unit, covering some empty spots in the needs of the race, but getting a really OP ability/spell. Well, if the problem is not the unit, maybe we should focus on adequating the ability.
Corrosive bile is too OP? nerf damage and splash, maybe make ravager a low energy pool unit, like medics in BW. They are early in the tech tree, so energy/spell countering is hard but can be used in mid-late game, which is not a bad idea to diversify compositions.
Tempest ability is too destructive because gives free picks? Lower the damage a lot, diversify uses. After thinking it for a while, acting like the Corruption ability or applying an armor penalty debuff is fairly more tactical than a big snipe shot. If you want it to siege buildings, give it bonus damage vs it. It's not that difficult to fit a unit in their intended role. The tempest ability is gonna dictate if we have it as an AG unit only or AA too again, which wouldn't be bad.
Range should change if we want to change interactions with other units and some counter mechaincs. LotV is aiming to introduce micro and fancy abilities and uses, but in some cases aren't reviewing many unit interactions. And then tempest will counter tanks and thors even harder, protoss sentries will be hardcountered by ravagers and Hercs (because they weren't fragile enough), the terran biodrops would be even stronger in PvZ (warp-in nerf, marauder damage still wasting structures, even stronger banshee openers... Also things start overlapping, like Hellbat/Widowmine/Herc, New Swarmhost/Broodlord, Broodlord/new corruptor (because of damage) Colossus/Disruptor, somewhat VoidRay/Tempest......It's funny to observe that Lurkers and banes aren't overlapping but complementing quite decently (one sieges and defends and zones, the other one raids and flanks).
Herc damage + splash is not really needed. Maybe a multishot/piercing shot with lowered damage(damaging alimited number of enemies in line)or something that blocks the movement (damaging alimited number of enemies in line) would be more interesting.
Broodlord stats, (speed, armor, range) may need a tweak, and maybe even a soft air attack, if we don't want it to disappear into oblivion.
And they are for exemple forgetting the muta problem in ZvZ, which could be even worse with frenzy, (hell Zerg needs a new air unit or some love to Infestor/ new corruptor AA mechanic)
They should have a big coffee at Blizz headquarters and start making the game not only more complex but also more flexible. Protoss would still benefit from a new gateway unit, mobile, light (to be countered by banes/hellions) with decent AA or even AA mainly. Also a brained rework for Nexus, MSC and Warpgate. Lots of things pending.
I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random.
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random.
Straight up 6 mineral patches with 1500 would be better. More reason to expand, slower mining out. But it's up to Blizz.
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random.
Just need to adopt to new economy. Expand earlier and be more active
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random.
Imo it's a great change, but the maps need to change now to. Bigger maps with more expansions are going to be needed, which hopefully blizzard does
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random.
Imo it's a great change, but the maps need to change now to. Bigger maps with more expansions are going to be needed, which hopefully blizzard does
That's also an issue. I've played a number of FFAs with an overabundance of bases. In that instance, it feels like there are too many bases and you are spread too thin with slower units/tech/races.
Imho, the base change feels like the right track. Makes me feel like I'm playing BW again, although they need to make some tweaks to it.
The bases should have the same minerals, but mine it out faster. Either that, or just reduce the cost of everything by a percentage (which would be harder and silly).
Watching this video, I'd want to say, that Archon Mode really can give some sort of new way of playing 1v1.
Custom announcer voice problem solved also. In Archon Mode YOU will be a race announcer. "Expand here!" "Build workers!" "Save those Vikings!" "Micro medivacs!"
On December 13 2014 00:51 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: yeap, same way you change hotkeys normally. just go to the hotkeys menu while ingame
It should be noted that you can also change the LotV hotkeys after having played too, the Hotkey menú is bugged in the sense that when you play X game mode you will not be able to edit the hotkeys before, only meanwhile you are ingame and after having played the game.
What's the point of the protoss' new unit? It seems like it's quite useless against mech (especially when tanks are well spread) and effective against bio, but so are the colossi. The new unit was supposed to only take a part of a colossus' role while the colossus is weakened so the colossus won't be an all around unit. However, it looks like the new unit does the same thing as a colossus plus worker harassment.
On December 13 2014 02:11 swissman777 wrote: What's the point of the protoss' new unit? It seems like it's quite useless against mech (especially when tanks are well spread) and effective against bio, but so are the colossi. The new unit was supposed to only take a part of a colossus' role while the colossus is weakened so the colossus won't be an all around unit. However, it looks like the new unit does the same thing as a colossus plus worker harassment.
Yes, it does the same thing as Colossus but it is more micro intensive and has a higher cost, better at harassment and can do more damage than Colossus when properly controlled, which just means that it doesn't do the same thing as Colossus...
There will be a ton of changes in the beta, but if nothing changes, Tempests are even better against Mech now when they are a lot faster and have Disintegrate, Carriers are greatly buffed and Immortal shields are weaker against just Tanks but still can soak up quite a bit of damage when activated at the right time, and not just against Tanks but against everything else as well.
On December 13 2014 02:11 swissman777 wrote: What's the point of the protoss' new unit? It seems like it's quite useless against mech (especially when tanks are well spread) and effective against bio, but so are the colossi. The new unit was supposed to only take a part of a colossus' role while the colossus is weakened so the colossus won't be an all around unit. However, it looks like the new unit does the same thing as a colossus plus worker harassment.
Well, that is partly true, they overlap a bit, but in the same way as Herc and Hellbat: completely different micro and uses, oriented towards the same effect. We'll need to wait for beta testing and changes to state that they truly overlap. I feel that then can still achieve a differentiation in the roles of the Colossus and the disruptor. The colossus could be reworked with same range, more speed and higher cooldown, being a walking siege unit that can abuse terrain with lower damage efficiency, while the disruptor can take the role of main AoE killer/antiballs with huge damage potential. I see that it could be problematic in PvP, but tempests would be a reliable counter against them, and with lowered damage efficiency they could be far less intimidating.
That could make the colossus play more micro friendly and less deathball oriented. I thhink that nerfing its range by one is not gonna change interactions at all, simply being more easy to counter because of the range advantage of Vipers and Vikings. It's a basic nerf, not a rework.
Preliminar LotV changes aren't showing a deep logic by now. They can make units very interesting changing very few values without them feeling really different in essence.
On December 10 2014 23:57 JCoto wrote: I think that Tempest values are incorrect in the Mod.
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?.
It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed.
BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair.
I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself.
it's more like if irradiate did 500 damage and vs buildings or units, and didn't need biological target either. ANNNNND doesn't cost mana or require an upgrade.
Shit's as broken as it gets.
So what can we say about nerfing this instead of bitching though?
First of all, nerf the speed and range of the tempest. Give it equal tank range and make it's vision like the tank as well. Take the speed down to like 2, or 2.25 MAX. These bitches are way too fast for having that much HP and being a capital ship. It doesn't even look right. It looks silly when they swoop around all quick. (although they are fun as fuck to micro like that). It can be compared a lot to the Broodlord as well as far as tech tree, cost, etc. It's like a mechabroodlord.
As far as the ability, require an upgrade at the fleet beacon. 150/150 - 200/200 or something like that. a tempest cost 200/300 iirc.
Make the tempest have a mana pool. 200 max, 125 to cast it imo.
I think that might be perfect as far as balance could ever be with this thing.
Some might argue that the ability still does too much damage, or has too many possible targets. Well then perhaps only allow it to hit massive targets, or perhaps do not allow it to hit structures and non psionic units maybe (because queens). Or reduce the damage (175?) it has a more specific role of targets it's used for. Yea, I think 175 is the best one there.
Broodlord stats, (speed, armor, range) may need a tweak, and maybe even a soft air attack, if we don't want it to disappear into oblivion.
I'd like to see them fire 3 Broodlings at once with the first shot, but have a recharge rate even slower than what they currently have, so that they'd have to stall for a bit before regaining full attack strength. This would encourage poking and prodding with BLs more, and discourage sitting in one ball, trying to brute force through a direct engagement. It would be cool if they moved quicker with fewer Broodlings as well, so it would make that type of micro more rewarding, but not make it too easy to just zoom them across the map.
EPT
