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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
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Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 10.2: Live on Jan. 22, 2020
Team Fight Tactics Patch 10.2 Live on Jan. 22, 2020
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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The link to the patch notes is a bit messed up. Overall very tame patch.
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I know new season always has spotty matchmaking at times, but man I can't recall it ever being this bad for this long.
I noticed a trend after the first ten games, and since then I've been able to predict the winning team every game starting at op.gg in the loading screen. Am I just unlucky or is it completely out to lunch for everyone? Played like 50 games this season across two different accounts and nearly every game has two teams that have practically an entire league difference in S9 rating. Just bizarre.
I dunno, it's not even unfair, it's just... Awful match making that has low quality games.
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How dare whoever slandered old Olaf in the 10.1 thread do so. They need to bring back that brilliant design. Best champ in lol history.
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With role MMR being implement last season, I'm pretty sure the matchmaking algorithm has become incredibly convoluted. Anyone who deals with systems can tell you that adding variables leads to bigger uncertainties, unintended effects and ultimately a system that doesn't do what it's supposed to. Role MMR isn't being looked at in isolation, otherwise a Challenger mid laner would end up being autofilled support in Silver if they always dodge. But how are you supposed to tell the support role MMR of two Challenger mid laners with similar mid role MMR apart if they don't play it often? Maybe one of them plays it at GM level, and the other just at D1, simply because it fits their playstyle more.
The same thought process fits lower MMR people, who don't play enough to fully support an MMR for all 5 roles. But people are constantly being autofilled, so what does Riot do? Do they loosen the MMR ranges for games to accommodate for the error? Does that overlap with matchmaking expanding the MMR ranges it looks for when the queue time is very long, and cause an additive effect? Won't even bother asking how that interacts with duos and win/loss streaks accelerating MMR changes.
Oh and Riot threw in a soft MMR reset the past two seasons, meaning that there's even more randomness that the algorithm has to take into consideration.
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I mean In season 7 I had a game where I had a challenger adc and a mid with 12 cs@10 on my team at the same time, who didn’t even understand that they were behind because they had a kill, it’s always just been fucked in January.
That being said the way jg difference plays out on this patch is kinda maddening
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On January 25 2020 06:28 Slusher wrote:
I mean In season 7 I had a game where I had a challenger adc and a mid with 12 cs@10 on my team at the same time, who didn’t even understand that they were behind because they had a kill, it’s always just been fucked in January.
That being said the way jg difference plays out on this patch is kinda maddening
Honestly ever since I started playing lol and got a grip on what is going on, I always though that the jungle role is somehow out of place, the jungle itself is like something from a different game, that cannot be fully adapted into league. For example, in Dota 1 the jungle was like part of everything, it was for everyone and was providing for everyone, even in teams with a dedicated jungler, everyone could impact how the jungle will be played and it that sense it did not need balancing, it was just there, part of the flow. But in Lol the jungle is dividing the map and the game in two: jungle and the rest and I dont think this will be ever fixed
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There is way too little gold in the jungle to be like DOTA, but I guess there is also too much to ignore it and just kinda run 2-1-2 with occasional farming. Plus kills are also too strong in LOL for junglers to ignore lanes.
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Am I the only one who absolutely hates the new design of the LoL website. The patch notes are so fucking spaced out for no reason.
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can someone explain the garen q bugfix? does that mean the damage and silence will go through banshees/sivir e/morg e etc?
was this always the intended interaction with garen q? dafuq
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On January 25 2020 18:01 evilfatsh1t wrote:
can someone explain the garen q bugfix? does that mean the damage and silence will go through banshees/sivir e/morg e etc?
was this always the intended interaction with garen q? dafuq
I think because its technically an auto? Not too sure
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I mean, it's Garen so it's not going to make him competitive all of a sudden, but that's a pretty frustrating change when you're the recipient. Especially because the silence goes through a spell shield, that's not exactly intuitive.
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Most auto modifiers get stopped by spellshields. Nasus, Jax, etc. as far as I know they're all stopped, and it's been the normal behaviour for years.
On January 25 2020 13:55 AdsMoFro wrote:
Am I the only one who absolutely hates the new design of the LoL website. The patch notes are so fucking spaced out for no reason.
Doesn't need to be functional if it's prettier, I guess.
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3-1-1 Jungling Pantheon, down 2 CS to the opposing jungle Ekko
I was level 7, Opposing Mid Lane Orianna was Level 11
That's just not acceptable
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Your mistake for not siphoning experience from the lanes. Tax your peasant laners.
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youre not supposed to be able to 1v1 the mid laner. the only people who enjoyed that was people who main jungle. it doesnt make any sense when the role thats traditionally supposed to be a support role with more money is able to keep up with solo laners and consistently win 1v1s against them. no other moba title had this.
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Its scary jungling, especially when the other team has an assassin.
I feel like a lot of laners too dont really understand how bad the XP cuts have been on Junglers. If you have any weird skirmishes and fall behind pace of a standard game as a jungler you lose so much XP its kind of ridiculous. If you have a weird skirmish level 1 and start late, or a weird crab fight or something, its not uncommon to be level 4 when mid is level 6 or even 7. And like... legit you can't even try to gank unless as a champion you bring ridiculous CC because you'll just get 1 shot given that you're such a low level and at this point have spent all your gold on purely machete / talisman.
Or scarier than mid lane, two level 4 bot laners when you are level 4.
Doesn't matter how bad youre lane is going, guaranteed if I tried to gank that Akali, and she 1-shots me with her Ult + ignite w/ Hextech procc it wont improve it.
Its alright, riot has heard jungles plight... talk is they are going to buff XP in the jungle by as much as 2% for junglers between minutes 4-18! Yippie!
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I'm not a jungle main, so can't tell if 2% is a lot.
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On January 28 2020 02:00 DarkCore wrote:
I'm not a jungle main, so can't tell if 2% is a lot.
Its not. Maybe means we hit level 6 a camp earlier. Maybe. Also depends what they mean by increasing jungler experience; are they increasing all experience income by 2% or just the monster kill XP by 2%? Because monster XP is confusing. Jungle item gives a one time 165 XP on kill, then 50 XP per kill always... are these included? IDK.
For reference, 2% is 2.7 to 3.4 extra experience per gromp. Lets call it a clean 3 extra XP per camp, noting that the 2.7 point is for level 1 monsters and no one outside of Riot has monster level data, and noting that gromp is more XP than non buff camps. but slightly less than buffs.
Given that XP buff is to start at the four minute mark, it starts on your second clear. So you have full clear (6 camps, samed XP, + likely a scuttle crab; Thats 830 XP + 7x50 + the one time 165, or 1345 total), then second clear (4 camps; 200 + 485 or 685), then your first buff (1 camp; 115 + 50 or 165). Or a total of 1995 experience. Level 6 takes a cumulative 2400 XP (or 8 waves of minions; 400 + 130, or you hit level 6 at minute 5:30; In jungle you hit 2k XP at 6:45 when you done killing second buff). In order to hit 6 as a jungler, you need an extra 400 XP, or 3 camps, which gives you 495 XP for a total of 2490. In the first 8:30 of the game (which is when you hit level 6 if you only farm your side of the jungle on a strong /fast clearing jungle), you therefore have 2490-1345 = 1145 XP available to be increased. If you take away one camp, thats only 980 XP.
So in order for the buff to even mean you hit level 6 a camp earlier, you need to have that 980 XP be 2400-1345=1055 XP, or an increase of 8% of total experience gained (75 extra XP). If it is just 2% of camp XP and it doesn't include bonus XP from hunters items then your 980 is over 6 camps, meaning you have 680 XP to be increased.
Thus a the 2% XP buff for junglers after four minutes is essentially somewhere in the range of 13.6 to 19.6 XP at the 8:30 mark. 2% likely means you hit level 9, 10 or 11 in one less camp. But jungle XP is too obfuscated at this point in time to have a real feel on that, and Riot has been too vague about the buff. My feel would be that Riot is largely happy with the jungle currently, and just wants to throw an appeasement buff that doesn't change anything.
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On January 27 2020 21:00 evilfatsh1t wrote:
youre not supposed to be able to 1v1 the mid laner. the only people who enjoyed that was people who main jungle. it doesnt make any sense when the role thats traditionally supposed to be a support role with more money is able to keep up with solo laners and consistently win 1v1s against them. no other moba title had this.
Did I say anything about 1v1ing the mid laner?
I was down 4 levels while have a very successful game
That is absolutely stupid
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@s10exp
If you think jungle is bad try being a support that prefer enchanters. You're harming your adc more than helping since you're going to be duolaning much more than braindead champs like Leona or Nautilus. 
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On January 28 2020 06:10 Bladeorade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2020 21:00 evilfatsh1t wrote:
youre not supposed to be able to 1v1 the mid laner. the only people who enjoyed that was people who main jungle. it doesnt make any sense when the role thats traditionally supposed to be a support role with more money is able to keep up with solo laners and consistently win 1v1s against them. no other moba title had this. Did I say anything about 1v1ing the mid laner? I was down 4 levels while have a very successful game That is absolutely stupid
and im willing to bet the opposing orianna was also having a very successful game? shes not going to be 4 levels up on you by being 0/3/0. if she was, then you werent having a successful game at all.
people need to realise now that this season the jungle role is still as important as ever, only for different reasons. the games not about accelerating farm on as many lanes as possible, its about increasing the difference between the junglers so that you can take all the dragons.
stop whinging that the solo laners are eclipsing you in xp and instead get your huge laners to pressure their jungle with you. why do you think counter jungling was brought back to the game?
if you still want to play the s9 jungle role that leads in xp and roams all over the map and sets everything up, switch to mid; because thats essentially what the s9 jungle role was; a mid lane that came online faster
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^ I completely agree. The only times I've seen that massive level differences has been either in stomps or when it's a laner that has been solo splitting for basically the entire game. Junglers need to stop comparing their exp/gold to laners and rather to the enemy jungler instead.
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Still think junglers should be a level down on solo laners for the most part, and a level up on the double lane. Snowballing and denial obviously skew that, but 4 levels is basically an advantage you can't really shut down anymore. You could argue that getting there should be rewarded (enemy must've fed that Ori pretty heavily, most likely killed other lanes/jungle too), but with jungle exp nerfs those situations become more common, a bit too much imo.
Preemptive change list for 10.3, which seems to be a lot of what we hoped. MF, Senna and Aphelios nerfs hopefully make other ADC even remotely pickable, although my bet is that Senna and Aphelios will continue to dominate.
And what do you know, the Sona buff was retarded, who knew  .
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Azir and Corki buffs..... yay
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Senna, the support that everyone plays as ADC, is so fucking busted with her glacial augment..
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How are you supposed to play around Senna's poke in the early game? I don't play a lot of bot/supp recently, but whenever I have to lane against her in the early game I have no idea how to react to her point and click poke. It's like laning against the old Pantheon and having to deal with the constant rain of his Qs, except it's worse because Senna's powerful autos don't cost mana.
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I like Setts kit, and I've been playing him a lot and popping off with him from the jungle, but I think his passive regen mixed with his shield is is OP.
I think they're both fine on their own, because you can outplay big ten with burst, and you can outplay a shield by just not attacking into the shield, but with them both combined Sett wins either way; if you disengage when he pop's W shield he regens a ridiculous amount, if you try and trade through the shield he kills you because he has like 200% eHP. Just too much raw survivability. He gets to kind of have his cake and eat it too.
The jungler in me would tend towards them nerfing the shield, because largely his passive is what makes him work in the jungle along with all the auto resets, but something has to give. I have a feeling riot will nerf the passive, because it makes more sense that the strong parts of the kit be active instead of passive.
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Yeah, csing actually feels bad when playing against her. Usually there's a mini game of going for cs or going for a small trade, but with her you just lose health every time, without necessarily even being able to cs lol.
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His base damage is also quite high, simply because his ultimate and Q scale off the opponent's health, so it doesn't fall off. Same story with the fact he has built in true damage, which is quite difficult to dodge when you're in range for it. Imo either his damage needs to be toned down or his ability animations need to be made slower, because they're not really skill shots with how fast they activate. Probably both.
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On January 29 2020 00:15 Sent. wrote:
How are you supposed to play around Senna's poke in the early game? I don't play a lot of bot/supp recently, but whenever I have to lane against her in the early game I have no idea how to react to her point and click poke. It's like laning against the old Pantheon and having to deal with the constant rain of his Qs, except it's worse because Senna's powerful autos don't cost mana.
yeah I mostly play top but every once in a while I play AD and I have no idea how to lane against Senna lol
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Yeah, I'd agree his base damage is a touch high. A lot of his damage though is in auto resets / his passive. He scales pretty hard. I don't necessarily think it's a terrible thing though, he's kinda slow and easy to kite.
I think his inherent tankiness is more of a problem, but I could be wrong. I've been spamming him and lethality Graves
/ Pantheon though, so I'm used to blowing people up.
On the pbe they're buffing jungle XP from level 1 to 7 by 4.5%. Its a kind of convoluted change though, results in level 5 one camp earlier, level 6 in same camp break point. Strangely, they are buffing blue side note than red side, which is kind of weird because almost all junglers are pretty much just spam clearing Blue side as it is. I thought they said they wanted both sides to be more equal, but they're actually nerfing the first red spawns XP, and Raptors seem unchanged. Kind of bizarre. Krugs are recently buffed, but they still take 3 years to clear.... That Golem spawning time is awful.
And they're buffing crab by about 15xp, which seems heavy, given early game skirmishing junglers are already meta. More Lee + Elise I guess.
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On January 29 2020 00:15 Sent. wrote:
How are you supposed to play around Senna's poke in the early game? I don't play a lot of bot/supp recently, but whenever I have to lane against her in the early game I have no idea how to react to her point and click poke. It's like laning against the old Pantheon and having to deal with the constant rain of his Qs, except it's worse because Senna's powerful autos don't cost mana.
ignoring godlike dodges and reactions because theyre too hard to consistently pull off, your only options are pick a duo that has good all-in or take tp on your ad and just try and go even in lane.
sennas still squishy so a strong duo can 100-0 him with ignite, otherwise you just give priority to senna and farm under tower and wait for ganks
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If you're premade just go Xerath+Brand, both max W and watch her ragequit after ~5 minutes. Her slow attack speed make it nearly impossible to miss W if she has the audacity to hit one of your minions.
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That combo works against most bot lanes, not just Senna. Beating a super poke lane requires both the ADC to dodge 95% of skillshots, and the support knowing when/how to engage. Also having a jungler who doesn't ignore bot lane. Getting all 3 of those players in a game below Diamond is serious luck, you just don't see it because people emulate pro play too heavily.
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On January 29 2020 13:56 Jek wrote:
If you're premade just go Xerath+Brand, both max W and watch her ragequit after ~5 minutes. Her slow attack speed make it nearly impossible to miss W if she has the audacity to hit one of your minions.
Yeah I feel like double mage is great vs Senna
I like Neeko/Veigar
Neeko doesnt really need a lot of gold to function I think she's going to end up being a decent support.
Unless she is I didnt play for like 2 years
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She's not that great of a support because she offers very little to the team besides perma cc. So if you're going to play her bot, it's going to have to be a kill lane. She's very squishy and not that long ranged, there are a lot of reasons you rarely see Neeko anymore.
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Yo I mean I really have no idea but that sounds just about like exactly what you'd want from your support?
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She has good harassment and burst, but she's very squishy and offers no sustain for her ADC. I'd rather pick a tanky all in champ like Leona or Thresh, they have Targons and often build Solari, especially because they're tanky enough to survive through a Neeko combo while the same does not apply in reverse. And in team fights, Neeko's root isn't a good form of peel since it channels in a straight line, while her ultimate is telegraphed. Neeko always has to be the one making the play, she can't deal with enemy engage. Hence a kill lane that kind of needs to snowball.
Other little things that come to mind are Janna ult negating her ult, Janna/Nami/Soraka looking like good picks vs her in general, Naut/Thresh/Leona kill lanes blowing her up etc.
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She’s a Morgana without black shield that needs ap to survive casting her ult
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+ Show Spoiler +
This image has been a game changer for me. Having the frame of reference on travel time let's you eek out they tiny little bit extra presence on objectives / ganks / duels without overstaying. Have always just kind of guessed by feel, and it either worked out or didn't and I kinda just went "well shucks."
It's a skill you use a lot, judging timing by distance. Never thought to time it out and have a quick reference before.
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So I do not understand why ER into IE is the preferred build for ADCs right now.
Can someone explain why this is better than BF Sword item into Zeal item?
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I think it's two things; one meta ADCs at the moment have a ton of ability damage, and they scale from that. Two, top 10 mid lane picks at the moment are Diana, Akali, Talon, Fizz, Qiyana, Yasuo, LeBlanc, Zed, Kassidin, and Katarina; when you can't actually auto attack between running away you might as well make sure your sparse autos you can get off hurt, because AS doesn't do much for you against a Fizz.
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MF gets ER IE because with just upgraded boots she's hitting like 2.00 AS with just 3 points in W at lv 11. Also her ultimate crits. Don't think anyone else really plays with that build, except Aphelios because he has built in AS and his kit basically doesn't care if he delays AS (finally starting to learn this dumb champ).
Wouldn't say it's the presence of bursty champions being viable resulting in AD focused ADC early builds, but rather because Aphelios/Senna/MF/Lucian are all strong if not broken, and they are all fairly ability focused with DPS from AA being a free bonus perk from being an ADC. Xayah/Kai'Sa are still viable and do build Zeal as first/second T3 item.
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On February 01 2020 06:38 DarkCore wrote:
MF gets ER IE because with just upgraded boots she's hitting like 2.00 AS with just 3 points in W at lv 11. Also her ultimate crits. Don't think anyone else really plays with that build, except Aphelios because he has built in AS and his kit basically doesn't care if he delays AS (finally starting to learn this dumb champ).
Wouldn't say it's the presence of bursty champions being viable resulting in AD focused ADC early builds, but rather because Aphelios/Senna/MF/Lucian are all strong if not broken, and they are all fairly ability focused with DPS from AA being a free bonus perk from being an ADC. Xayah/Kai'Sa are still viable and do build Zeal as first/second T3 item.
Xayah was building ER into IE in pro play and Kaisa was going rageblade 2nd
but yeah it was MF, Aphelios and Xayah and they are all so different so i was confused
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Xayah can build ER IE first because of lethal tempo, but I think a lot of times pros prefer Rapidfire because it's safer and also because the long range lets you proc temp early, so that when you actually get into real AA range it's almost charged. Lets you choose your fights, but that's a mechanic that only comes into play when you're really good. I think IE ER gives more DPS though, and is also burstier.
I didn't phrase the last sentence correctly, I should've said AS not Zeal, you're right with Rageblade for Kai'Sa.
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xayah gets ie 2nd because her w is a huge aspd steroid anyway.
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Man what happened to this forum? Is everyone just on reddit now? I feel like the LoL sub reddit is too big to actually have any value. Is there another forum like how this one used to be?
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On February 05 2020 04:34 Bladeorade wrote:
Man what happened to this forum? Is everyone just on reddit now? I feel like the LoL sub reddit is too big to actually have any value. Is there another forum like how this one used to be?
Main issue really is I think when we got split off from TL, we just slowly bleed people who leave and go play other games while not adding a whole lot of people.
Also I'm almost a decade older now than when I first started playing league. I simply can't spend hours every day grinding ranked any more, so I'm significantly less invested in the game.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://mobalytics.gg/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Movement-Travel-Times-1024x988.jpg)
