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Bjerg head coach? That seems like a poor choice. If Bjerg was some sort of pick ban genius or had major motivational or management credentials he'd be utilizing them as the mid laner already.
Fact is though, TSM usually loses draft and usually struggles to be consistent performers; which would be kind of a deathblow to the idea that perhaps Bjerg is a pickban genius. I think competent management, even if they wanted to transition Bjerg to coach and not waste money, would tend to at best hire him in an associate / assistant role there first while having him shadow a well known and previously successful coach. Although... given that TSM has had bad pick ban and inconsistent performance for years now, I dont think it would be fair to assume TSM has competent management, either.
Be interesting to see what happens mid. Hard to imagine a world where TSM doesn't have a marquee midlaner. I wonder if with rumors of Perks wanting to play mid... dare I say it.... TSM Perks?
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Head Coach doesn't have to be responsible for PB, you have analysts for that. Head Coach is more of a managerial position, you're responsible for making sure the team has everything they need to win. It's good to have a knowledgeable Head Coach though, and I think Bjerg fits that.
If Perkz goes to NA, I will eat a shoe.
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I've gotten the feeling that Bjerg has been undermining the head coach for many years, it's the easiest explanation why they consistently have the same problems when he is the one constant. This is exactly why I dislike the move so much
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TSM Uma Jan would be hilarious. If Jiizuke and PoE could find success in NA, so can Perkz. To a degree, it even makes sense, considering Perkz won't find better conditions anywhere in Europe and G2 won't let him trade positions with Caps again. I think it's more likely than Fnatic Perkz. I just can't imagine him in their jersey.
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I think headcoach certainly falls a lot on the headcoach. Analysts might have a large amount of say into the starting points and priorities of a teams draft (IE what they think are strong picks, what are good counterpicks, and what they think a priority is in the draft; Lane Strength vs teamfights strength, etc), but its the headcoach and players that go out on stage and ultimately makes the picks.
Also as a general rule taken from Sports, typically the most talented players tend to be awful coaches; Just ask Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan. Most good coaches are usually yeoman type veterans that could barely hack it playing the game at all, or people that didn't play at all.
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On October 25 2020 05:02 Sent. wrote:
TSM Uma Jan would be hilarious. If Jiizuke and PoE could find success in NA, so can Perkz. To a degree, it even makes sense, considering Perkz won't find better conditions anywhere in Europe and G2 won't let him trade positions with Caps again. I think it's more likely than Fnatic Perkz. I just can't imagine him in their jersey.
I really hope that does not happen. I care less and less about NA and dont want more players to disappear there.
Maybe the wage gap between NA and EU closes somewhat since LCS teams should realize their wages are unsustainable and dont lead to corresponding success.
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Mata and Zinedine Zidane are good counter points to your argument, I don't think every great talent would be a good coach but it depends on the person. Bjerg also isn't some savant, from his interviews it's always been clear he can express himself.
I will give Bjerg the benefit of the doubt, think he's a decent man for the position.
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On October 25 2020 05:23 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2020 05:02 Sent. wrote:
TSM Uma Jan would be hilarious. If Jiizuke and PoE could find success in NA, so can Perkz. To a degree, it even makes sense, considering Perkz won't find better conditions anywhere in Europe and G2 won't let him trade positions with Caps again. I think it's more likely than Fnatic Perkz. I just can't imagine him in their jersey. I really hope that does not happen. I care less and less about NA and dont want more players to disappear there. Maybe the wage gap between NA and EU closes somewhat since LCS teams should realize their wages are unsustainable and dont lead to corresponding success.
I don't think Fnatic Perkz would work out and I think it's possible that G2 could be better with a different adc (notice how this year's Perkz didn't bring any must-ban AP bot laners). With all that in mind I wouldn't mind Perkz moving to NA to increase the level of play there, just like the other EU mids I mentioned did.
I also don't think NA wages are unsustainable. Only thing the constant complaining about NA salaries being too high can achieve is that the said money will go to team owners' pockets instead of players. It's not NA players' fault that their region's league is much more attractive to sponsors than Europe. The wage gap might close in the future, but that will because of the European scene(s) improving, not because of NA orgs lowering its allegedly inflated numbers.
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On October 25 2020 05:36 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2020 05:23 Redox wrote:On October 25 2020 05:02 Sent. wrote:
TSM Uma Jan would be hilarious. If Jiizuke and PoE could find success in NA, so can Perkz. To a degree, it even makes sense, considering Perkz won't find better conditions anywhere in Europe and G2 won't let him trade positions with Caps again. I think it's more likely than Fnatic Perkz. I just can't imagine him in their jersey. I really hope that does not happen. I care less and less about NA and dont want more players to disappear there. Maybe the wage gap between NA and EU closes somewhat since LCS teams should realize their wages are unsustainable and dont lead to corresponding success. I don't think Fnatic Perkz would work out and I think it's possible that G2 could be better with a different adc (notice how this year's Perkz didn't bring any must-ban AP bot laners). With all that in mind I wouldn't mind Perkz moving to NA to increase the level of play there, just like the other EU mids I mentioned did. I also don't think NA wages are unsustainable. Only thing the constant complaining about NA salaries being too high can achieve is that the said money will go to team owners' pockets instead of players. It's not NA players' fault that their region's league is much more attractive to sponsors than Europe. The wage gap might close in the future, but that will because of the European scene(s) improving, not because of NA orgs lowering its allegedly inflated numbers.
Well you are implying that this money actually comes from sponsors. I rather think it is for the most part from investors which is why I think it is unsustainable. I think the biggest difference between NA and EU is the availability of venture capital, much more than sponsors. But at some point even that capital runs out.
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Good luck trying to pay low wages in streamerland.
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Meta and Zidane, sure. I do think they are the exception rather than the rule though. I'd say it's more common for a guy like Ralph Krueger to come from nowhere and be a successful coach.
At least for Hockey, I would say nearly all of what I would consider the best NHL coaches of all time (or atleast, the last 30 years) are coaches that more or less were bad hockey players. NHL hall of fame coaches like Scotty Bowman, Punch Imlach, Pat Burns, Ken Hitchcock, Barry Trotz, Mike Keenan, John Tortorella and Glen Sather all never played the game professionally. Guys like Al Arbour, Joel Quenville, Bob Hartley, Pat Quinn, Dave Tippet, Todd McLellan, Peter Laviolette, Alain Vigneault, and Don Cherry all were more or less replacement level players or worse. You combine those two lists and its more or less the top 30 best coaches in NHL history.
In fact, the only good NHL coach i can think of that had any real success as a player is Jacques Lemaire. The only good exNHL player right now out of 31 NHL coaches is Rodd Brindamour, and as much as he was a star player, he was not the most talented fellow. More a huhi level talent than a Bjergson level talent.
American Football is notorious for guys that couldn't cut it being top coaches; guys like Tomlin or Belichek. I can't think of a single successful pro basketball player that is a successful NBA coach. Hell, even top boxing coaches like Cus D'Mato (never boxed professionally) and Freddie Roach (a top 10 contender for about a year in the worst boxing association) were mediocre boxers.
Even if you narrow the field and only look at eSports; all the good coaches have been bad players. kKoma couldn't make an LCK team in S1. Reapered was replaced immediately. Yamato was not a good player. Jatt had to cheat to see success as a player. I can't think of a single prolific starleague coach that was a good player. Grabbz never played pro LoL. Zefa was a LCK sub. Crescent was always an LPL sub. cvMAX was never more than a sub in the LCK. Homme was a sub in the LCK. YoungBuck was never a really prolific player, and was an assistant coach for years prior to becoming head coach. Thats basically all the top contending coaches at worlds this year.
Idk, I think that its possible Bjerg could be an exception, but the overwhelming trend is that those who are good at executing aren't the best at coaching, thinking, or leading. And think about it; if the execution is natural to you, you don't need to think about it. You don't need to achieve a fundamental understanding, you just do it because it comes natural to you; when it is natural to you, and you dont need to think about it to achieve it, how do you explain and teach that to someone else? The answer is usually that you can't; atleast not as well as the people who needed to understand and try damn hard to barely cut it.
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Another thing to take into account is that western players are incredibly dismissive of coaches they think don't know the game well enough, something that isn't the case with Bjergsen.
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5 more years of jungler solo invading 2nd blue to his death 
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On October 25 2020 08:28 Gahlo wrote:
Another thing to take into account is that western players are incredibly dismissive of coaches they think don't know the game well enough, something that isn't the case with Bjergsen.
As much as I like Berg (the only player I like on TSM). Making him head coach doesn't make sense. This falls under the old boys club and I agree with the person above. Just because you're a good player doesn't mean you will make a good coach.
Also to the guy saying top 3 mid in NA. That doesn't mean much when you are lifting the rest of your team on your back 80% of the time.
I admire guys who call it quits when they are still good.
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On October 26 2020 02:33 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2020 08:28 Gahlo wrote:
Another thing to take into account is that western players are incredibly dismissive of coaches they think don't know the game well enough, something that isn't the case with Bjergsen. As much as I like Berg (the only player I like on TSM). Making him head coach doesn't make sense. This falls under the old boys club and I agree with the person above. Just because you're a good player doesn't mean you will make a good coach. Also to the guy saying top 3 mid in NA. That doesn't mean much when you are lifting the rest of your team on your back 80% of the time. I admire guys who call it quits when they are still good.
Just because he's a good player doesn't mean he's going to be a bad coach either. I know that dynamic is *generally* true in traditional sports, but I don't think it matter anywhere near as much in esports.
Considering how hard he was carrying the team in general when he was given the lowest counterpick % in the entire world, still being at least top 3 in the region says a lot.
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On October 26 2020 02:55 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2020 02:33 StarStruck wrote:On October 25 2020 08:28 Gahlo wrote:
Another thing to take into account is that western players are incredibly dismissive of coaches they think don't know the game well enough, something that isn't the case with Bjergsen. As much as I like Berg (the only player I like on TSM). Making him head coach doesn't make sense. This falls under the old boys club and I agree with the person above. Just because you're a good player doesn't mean you will make a good coach. Also to the guy saying top 3 mid in NA. That doesn't mean much when you are lifting the rest of your team on your back 80% of the time. I admire guys who call it quits when they are still good. Just because he's a good player doesn't mean he's going to be a bad coach either. I know that dynamic is *generally* true in traditional sports, but I don't think it matter anywhere near as much in esports. Considering how hard he was carrying the team in general when he was given the lowest counterpick % in the entire world, still being at least top 3 in the region says a lot.
This is how I feel as well, the short answer is we don't know how good of a coach he will be. Numerous players have transitioned to coaching positions, especially the early veterans who fell off when LoL really started becoming big:
- Rapidstar went to C9
- Woong was on HLE (but that was a crappy team)
- Krepo was on G2 and VIT until he fucked up
- PDD is a successful owner who supposedly has a good eye for talent (i.e YM jungle gods)
- Cain coaches TL
- Clearlove coaches EDG
These are just the people from S2 Worlds, there's a lot more examples
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So the rumors are starting to come true.
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Article said that Fnatic were in the bidding race, do people consider him better than Bwipo? Or is Bwipo leaving? Would be huge.
Tbh, with Alphari leaving, the OG roster looks pretty lackluster outside of Upset and Xerxe, so I hope they find better teams too. I'm hoping that the top EU talent condenses into 3-4 teams this year,, MAD and RGE need better top laners and FNC needs a better midlaner. Personal wish is to see Perkz move to FNC mid, and Upset replaces him in G2.
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I'm really happy Alphari found a top tier Org after being shafted, but I definitely wish he'd stay in LEC where he could be on a truly world class team instead of NA, even if he's on one of the best in NA
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EPT
