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[Patch 9.24] Aphelios Release General Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
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Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
December 17 2019 02:12 GMT
#21
On December 15 2019 06:32 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2019 05:39 Sent. wrote:
On December 14 2019 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I say this as someone who has only seen his Champion Spotlight and hasn't played with or against him yet, but what's the point of Aphelios? Does he fill an adc 'role' that other champions don't? For example Cait/Trist are siege champs, Vayne/Kog/Twitch are hyper carries, Lucian is an early game skirmisher type, Corki has his hybrid damage, etc.

Nothing about his kit seems to show me why someone would pick Aphelios over anyone else, contrast that to most new champions that at least in my opinion are immediately identifiable as what their niche is. I should mention I mean specifically in pro play, obviously if the champ is fun he'll see play in soloQ


What about bottom carries like Jhin or Varus? I don't know how to describe their niches, but they're both viable competetively


Depending on the meta both are Lethality/Poke champs. I guess my point overall wasn't to describe every adc and put them in a bucket, it was that I don't see Aphelios fitting into any bucket that currently exists, but I also don't see what new bucket he makes. I contrast this to the releases of Pyke and Qiyana. On release Pyke was obviously a "new bucket" and was obviously an AD support. It was very easy to understand from his Kit what he was doing. Qiyana from her kit was obviously not making a "new bucket" and was very clearly in the assassins bucket.

I just don't see why Aphelios exists. What does he do that makes me choose him, from a professional standpoint.

Aphelios' bucket is he change bucket constantly. With the right two weapons he's borderline S-tier (if not S+) in one of the different traditional ADC roles. Gravaton and Flamethrower are the best example. He has periods where he is Ashe, periods where he is Jinx and even periods where he is both.

I expect him to contested in pro simply because he is so versatile.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8641 Posts
December 17 2019 15:03 GMT
#22
he should straight up be removed from the game. so cancerous to play against at the moment
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
December 17 2019 19:46 GMT
#23
On December 18 2019 00:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:
he should straight up be removed from the game. so cancerous to play against at the moment




You can feed horribly with the champ and then he suddenly turns around and starts blowing up people. And 10 people in the game don't understand his abilities.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-17 23:23:55
December 17 2019 23:23 GMT
#24
On December 18 2019 04:46 DarkCore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2019 00:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:
he should straight up be removed from the game. so cancerous to play against at the moment


https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteDreamyHabaneroMcaT

You can feed horribly with the champ and then he suddenly turns around and starts blowing up people. And 10 people in the game don't understand his abilities.


what the fuck did I just watch

On December 17 2019 11:12 Jek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2019 06:32 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On December 15 2019 05:39 Sent. wrote:
On December 14 2019 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I say this as someone who has only seen his Champion Spotlight and hasn't played with or against him yet, but what's the point of Aphelios? Does he fill an adc 'role' that other champions don't? For example Cait/Trist are siege champs, Vayne/Kog/Twitch are hyper carries, Lucian is an early game skirmisher type, Corki has his hybrid damage, etc.

Nothing about his kit seems to show me why someone would pick Aphelios over anyone else, contrast that to most new champions that at least in my opinion are immediately identifiable as what their niche is. I should mention I mean specifically in pro play, obviously if the champ is fun he'll see play in soloQ


What about bottom carries like Jhin or Varus? I don't know how to describe their niches, but they're both viable competetively


Depending on the meta both are Lethality/Poke champs. I guess my point overall wasn't to describe every adc and put them in a bucket, it was that I don't see Aphelios fitting into any bucket that currently exists, but I also don't see what new bucket he makes. I contrast this to the releases of Pyke and Qiyana. On release Pyke was obviously a "new bucket" and was obviously an AD support. It was very easy to understand from his Kit what he was doing. Qiyana from her kit was obviously not making a "new bucket" and was very clearly in the assassins bucket.

I just don't see why Aphelios exists. What does he do that makes me choose him, from a professional standpoint.

Aphelios' bucket is he change bucket constantly. With the right two weapons he's borderline S-tier (if not S+) in one of the different traditional ADC roles. Gravaton and Flamethrower are the best example. He has periods where he is Ashe, periods where he is Jinx and even periods where he is both.

I expect him to contested in pro simply because he is so versatile.


So basically he's a master of all trades, capped by the RNG of actually having the right pair?
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
December 18 2019 02:36 GMT
#25
Yeah I don't think that's a balanced ability. I don't think any other champ has the opportunity to one shot an entire team with one skill (even ultimate) that aren't even that close together. It needs decreased damage for multi-hits, and more reaction time as well. The instantaneous damage is just a little bit much.

Closest I can think of is like an ultrafed annie or vlad and even then they need to be close to the team, and super fed to do something like that. Not off the screen and press a single button.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
December 18 2019 04:21 GMT
#26
reminds me of this clip

Carrilord has arrived.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8641 Posts
December 18 2019 06:12 GMT
#27
On December 18 2019 04:46 DarkCore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2019 00:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:
he should straight up be removed from the game. so cancerous to play against at the moment


https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteDreamyHabaneroMcaT

You can feed horribly with the champ and then he suddenly turns around and starts blowing up people. And 10 people in the game don't understand his abilities.

yeah exactly this. what the fuck is that
even by riots standards this is some bullshit. thing is hes not even that weak early game; good range, good setup, good damage.
atm im just perma banning him every game i dont even care if my teammate wants to play him. just a disgusting champion to have in the game regardless
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 18 2019 10:04 GMT
#28
Aphelios seems to miss the mark as a high skill floor champion for me. It just doesn't really seem like he's got any ability options where you look at it and it's a bad choice. If anything he's the opposite.

His kit has some of the worst readability for his opponents. 5 different guns to get accustomed too, 5 walking cycles and attack animations, trying to tell his offhand gun by his back, his numerous marks his guns apply. Hes a visual mess. Not only is it a lot for an opponent to take in, his visual cues are hard to read and have poor contrast all on their own. Yet while he has 25 ways to beat you that are all different, they're all good. Just watch his champion Spotlight, he had 3 identical teamfight set ups with completely different weapon combinations and he just pop's off identically in all three.

Played against him a number of times and even if you could easily read what guns he had and what they did, there is never a moment where you're like "aha! You have these two guns, you have no kit synergy at the moment so you're worthless and I'll punish you!" Seems like the biggest hurdle is trying to figure out if he's able to exploit you or not more than of he's vulnerable; can he one shot my whole team at the moment? Is he harder to catch than Lucian with red buff at the moment? Does he have Ezreal style poke at the moment?

Invoker has such significant difference in his spells like AoE, slows, mana burn, split pusher minions, invisibility, tornado, meteor etc. All these spells have very clear differentiations and usage. One can't just equip any two spells and expect the same damage and general efficacy. Aphelios just feels like he's always good; feels like less a potential Jack of all trades out outsmarting you and more like you're just already on Dexter's table waiting for him to decide whether he wants to do the deed with a scalpel, a grinder, or a hatchet.

The feel could just be a numbers thing, largely, though I do think fundamentally he needs more exaggerated weaknesses / poor combinations. But I really don't like his lack of visual clarity. Kind of unacceptable from a company like Riot at this stage of their game, tbh. His visual cues remind me of old Karthus with more speed and less contrast.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
December 18 2019 10:05 GMT
#29
The irony of the clip is that he was 2/8 at some point in the game and had no idea how to use his abilities. Then suddenly Aphelios came online and started blowing everything up, granted this was a viewer game (NoWay is GM/Challenger but basically ignored macro and the game was a fiesta) but the setup of the clip is something you will see even in high MMR. Even 3 people insta dying there would have meant an instant win.

His ult clearly needs a hard nerf, but then it becomes a lackluster ult ability, so I'm expecting heavy reworks for his kit by midseason.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9183 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-18 15:47:02
December 18 2019 15:46 GMT
#30
Another option is that Riot will never try to rework Aphelios' kit and will instead balance him like Blitzcrank, Tahm or maybe Corki. I mean that they'll try to keep his strong aspects strong and nerf everything else to be as useful as Ahri's W.

I think they won't want to touch his kit for the same reason they don't want to make new Zyra skins. Too much effort.
You're now breathing manually
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
December 18 2019 16:31 GMT
#31
A Rioter stated last season that they prefer to release overtuned champions and nerf them, rather than vice cersa, because its easier to balance by removing features rather than adding them. So if his number nerfs next patch aren't enough, he most likely will see parts of his kit removed.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9183 Posts
December 18 2019 16:40 GMT
#32
Sooo four guns instead of five?
You're now breathing manually
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
December 18 2019 21:05 GMT
#33
I said this when the spotlight came out, by not giving the player agency on gun selection, the guns will have to all be too generally good, making him either op or trash
Carrilord has arrived.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
December 19 2019 02:08 GMT
#34
On December 18 2019 08:23 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2019 04:46 DarkCore wrote:
On December 18 2019 00:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:
he should straight up be removed from the game. so cancerous to play against at the moment


https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteDreamyHabaneroMcaT

You can feed horribly with the champ and then he suddenly turns around and starts blowing up people. And 10 people in the game don't understand his abilities.


what the fuck did I just watch

Show nested quote +
On December 17 2019 11:12 Jek wrote:
On December 15 2019 06:32 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On December 15 2019 05:39 Sent. wrote:
On December 14 2019 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I say this as someone who has only seen his Champion Spotlight and hasn't played with or against him yet, but what's the point of Aphelios? Does he fill an adc 'role' that other champions don't? For example Cait/Trist are siege champs, Vayne/Kog/Twitch are hyper carries, Lucian is an early game skirmisher type, Corki has his hybrid damage, etc.

Nothing about his kit seems to show me why someone would pick Aphelios over anyone else, contrast that to most new champions that at least in my opinion are immediately identifiable as what their niche is. I should mention I mean specifically in pro play, obviously if the champ is fun he'll see play in soloQ


What about bottom carries like Jhin or Varus? I don't know how to describe their niches, but they're both viable competetively


Depending on the meta both are Lethality/Poke champs. I guess my point overall wasn't to describe every adc and put them in a bucket, it was that I don't see Aphelios fitting into any bucket that currently exists, but I also don't see what new bucket he makes. I contrast this to the releases of Pyke and Qiyana. On release Pyke was obviously a "new bucket" and was obviously an AD support. It was very easy to understand from his Kit what he was doing. Qiyana from her kit was obviously not making a "new bucket" and was very clearly in the assassins bucket.

I just don't see why Aphelios exists. What does he do that makes me choose him, from a professional standpoint.

Aphelios' bucket is he change bucket constantly. With the right two weapons he's borderline S-tier (if not S+) in one of the different traditional ADC roles. Gravaton and Flamethrower are the best example. He has periods where he is Ashe, periods where he is Jinx and even periods where he is both.

I expect him to contested in pro simply because he is so versatile.


So basically he's a master of all trades, capped by the RNG of actually having the right pair?

Yes. His weapons are all good but the right weapons in the right situation are down right broken.

What I dislike the most about him is how perfect the first rotation of weapons fit for the duration of first back.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
December 19 2019 17:24 GMT
#35
Ardent Censer self procs, people are starting to run the item on Diana lmao.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-21 02:21:03
December 21 2019 02:19 GMT
#36
I think Ardent Censer self proccing makes sense.

That being said, not sure it makes sense on a shield that is only for yourself. Janna / Raka / Nida / Ivern / Sona / Yuumi / Karmia / Ori / Kayle / Thresh / Taric / etc self proc ardent makes sense.

Diana / Kaisa / Viktor / Ekko / Morde / Sylas etc self proc seems un-intended at best.

Does ardent proc with Locket?
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
December 21 2019 03:58 GMT
#37
I don’t know but it works with redemption
Carrilord has arrived.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
December 21 2019 15:17 GMT
#38
I like the self proc concept too, it's a cool niche strategy that player's found so I hope Riot doesn't hard impose their balance ideas and reverts it. That said, Conquerer Diana is just too strong with it right now, you rush Ardent into Nashor's Tooth and basically dominate all small skirmishes because you do crazy burst and DPS. Since her late game was nerfed, it seems to be the ideal build.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-26 08:57:40
December 26 2019 08:53 GMT
#39
I cant find any official KeSPA cup thread so I hope it's alright I throw a commet here.

DRX vs KeG game:
+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's only one game but damn Keria looks like a monster support, so confident, accurate and decisive. If this is his usual form watch out LCK Keria is out for blood. :O

Not that much of a surprise but Deft's mechanics are actually insane.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
December 27 2019 02:41 GMT
#40
On December 26 2019 17:53 Jek wrote:
I cant find any official KeSPA cup thread so I hope it's alright I throw a commet here.

DRX vs KeG game:
+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's only one game but damn Keria looks like a monster support, so confident, accurate and decisive. If this is his usual form watch out LCK Keria is out for blood. :O

Not that much of a surprise but Deft's mechanics are actually insane.


Remember that DRX were playing against amateurs
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