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[Patch 7.21] RIP Ardent Censer General Discussion - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL General
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DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
October 27 2017 07:35 GMT
#101
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4186 Posts
October 27 2017 07:46 GMT
#102
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.



Yeah, yesterday, today Riot said that he is getting hot fixed...Riot stuff..
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 27 2017 07:52 GMT
#103
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

Show nested quote +
For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.

Janna has been 55% ish in soloq for 4+ seasons. She has never been a priority pick until ardent meta, and has gone through multiple year-long droughts of almost no play. I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.
Freeeeeeedom
St3MoR
Profile Joined November 2002
Spain3256 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 09:09:54
October 27 2017 09:09 GMT
#104
On October 27 2017 00:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:
That is to say, Lux support has a bad winrate not just because Lux is trash, but because the people who pick Lux support are themselves trash.


Feels bad man :'(. I don't pick her in support role but close enough
Prophet in TL of the Makoto0124 ways
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
October 27 2017 15:24 GMT
#105
A few more riot balance team members need to get gold before season end with galio then they will hotfix it appropriately
I come in for the scraps
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 16:06:28
October 27 2017 16:03 GMT
#106
On October 27 2017 16:46 M2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.



Yeah, yesterday, today Riot said that he is getting hot fixed...Riot stuff..

These statements aren't contradictory. People were speculating that maybe Galio was that strong because of a typo, but rather than take the copout they said that they intentionally but wrongfully made it that strong, and are now correcting it.

On October 28 2017 00:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
A few more riot balance team members need to get gold before season end with galio then they will hotfix it appropriately

Ironically I think this came about because the playtest (not balance) team is exclusively Dia+ players. Based on preliminary stats, it seems that AP Galio had a pretty average winrate in high elo, because even though it did a lot of damage people would just play around it and beat it, like an AP Malphite. Whereas in lower elo, AP Galio had a much higher winrate as people would just keep inting into the Galio, as if the tenth time they got hit by EQW they wouldn't get one-shot.

In retrospect, even if Galio was 50% across all tiers, it's still no excuse for shipping Galio like that, because it's still hella annoying to play against even if he isn't winning most of the time. But if I am correct, it is the first time that I can recall where Riot completely dropped the ball on balancing for lower tiers.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 16:29:43
October 27 2017 16:28 GMT
#107
Low skill players were playing pre buff galio AP as well. where good players were making him tanky. I was watching a lot of people in challenger/masters yesterday playing AP galio exactly the same as you played tank galio. just with no tank stats. Which set him far enough behind that he was needing to scrap back.

one of those rare cases where the bad players had an advantage over the good ones, because they were misplaying a previous iteration of a champ, and then the champ gets changed to reward that misplay instead of what was good.
dsyxelic
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1417 Posts
October 27 2017 16:58 GMT
#108
On October 27 2017 16:52 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.

Janna has been 55% ish in soloq for 4+ seasons. She has never been a priority pick until ardent meta, and has gone through multiple year-long droughts of almost no play. I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.


lets not forget season 4 worlds

janna was played extensively. I think gorilla was the one that started it and then everyone hopped on. zero played it a lot and lustboy/mata played it a fair amount too. yes the ardent meta made her retarded but she is always strong when laning does not matter as much and hyper carries are meta.

she's also decent when splitpush/poke is good, I forget exactly when this was but I remember janna/trundle were super popular around the same time.
TL/SKT
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 27 2017 19:58 GMT
#109
On October 28 2017 01:58 dsyxelic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 16:52 cLutZ wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.

Janna has been 55% ish in soloq for 4+ seasons. She has never been a priority pick until ardent meta, and has gone through multiple year-long droughts of almost no play. I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.


lets not forget season 4 worlds

janna was played extensively. I think gorilla was the one that started it and then everyone hopped on. zero played it a lot and lustboy/mata played it a fair amount too. yes the ardent meta made her retarded but she is always strong when laning does not matter as much and hyper carries are meta.

she's also decent when splitpush/poke is good, I forget exactly when this was but I remember janna/trundle were super popular around the same time.


Yes, I do recall S4 worlds, which I think was really adopted because of Najin's fastpush strategy that won them the gauntlet. That's still just 2 periods separated by 3 years.

Worlds is just a snapshot, but:

S2: 0%
S3: 0%
S4: 68% P/B, 62% WR
S5: 4% P/B, 67%WR (0 In bracket stage)
S6: 0%
Freeeeeeedom
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 20:16:29
October 27 2017 19:59 GMT
#110
I got in 1 game with a Galio pre nerf, I had heard he was a problem already at that point so I picked reksai and camped the living shit out of him, dude legit started the game 0-5. I tried to kill him again after his roa was finished and he 1 combo'd me and spammed the thumbs up emote.
Carrilord has arrived.
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4124 Posts
October 27 2017 20:32 GMT
#111
On October 28 2017 01:03 GrandInquisitor wrote:
In retrospect, even if Galio was 50% across all tiers, it's still no excuse for shipping Galio like that, because it's still hella annoying to play against even if he isn't winning most of the time. But if I am correct, it is the first time that I can recall where Riot completely dropped the ball on balancing for lower tiers.

Ehh, they've done some weird balancing for lower ELO as well in the past. Juggernaut rework immediately comes to mind, especially because those champions were pubstompers already.
dsyxelic
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1417 Posts
October 27 2017 21:00 GMT
#112
On October 28 2017 04:58 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 01:58 dsyxelic wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:52 cLutZ wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.

Janna has been 55% ish in soloq for 4+ seasons. She has never been a priority pick until ardent meta, and has gone through multiple year-long droughts of almost no play. I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.


lets not forget season 4 worlds

janna was played extensively. I think gorilla was the one that started it and then everyone hopped on. zero played it a lot and lustboy/mata played it a fair amount too. yes the ardent meta made her retarded but she is always strong when laning does not matter as much and hyper carries are meta.

she's also decent when splitpush/poke is good, I forget exactly when this was but I remember janna/trundle were super popular around the same time.


Yes, I do recall S4 worlds, which I think was really adopted because of Najin's fastpush strategy that won them the gauntlet. That's still just 2 periods separated by 3 years.

Worlds is just a snapshot, but:

S2: 0%
S3: 0%
S4: 68% P/B, 62% WR
S5: 4% P/B, 67%WR (0 In bracket stage)
S6: 0%


just wanted to correct you since you said never been a priority pick

I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.

also this confuses me in your previous post since Wolf has definitely played janna more than 5 times. It was one of the 'unbeatable' skt champions for each position.

iirc - Marin's maokai, faker's leblanc, bang's kalista, wolf's janna had absurd 90%+ winrates with more than ~20 games at a certain point.
TL/SKT
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9331 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 22:04:34
October 27 2017 22:04 GMT
#113
Am I the only one who keeps missing Eve's Q while jungling due to spamming it like you did on old Eve?
You're now breathing manually
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 22:11:21
October 27 2017 22:10 GMT
#114
On October 28 2017 01:03 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Ironically I think this came about because the playtest (not balance) team is exclusively Dia+ players. Based on preliminary stats, it seems that AP Galio had a pretty average winrate in high elo, because even though it did a lot of damage people would just play around it and beat it, like an AP Malphite. Whereas in lower elo, AP Galio had a much higher winrate as people would just keep inting into the Galio, as if the tenth time they got hit by EQW they wouldn't get one-shot.

Given the balance team's history of juggernaut Skarner, rework Leblanc, rework Janna and now Galio Q I dont have much faith in their actually ability to see what works in the game from both a balance or fun perspective.

PBE forum was literally a spam fest about issues with Skarner, everyone with just a inkling of an idea how to play Janna knew it was going to be a buff, Leblanc and Galio was just looking at numbers to realize it was fucking stupid.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-27 22:59:24
October 27 2017 22:53 GMT
#115
On October 28 2017 06:00 dsyxelic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 04:58 cLutZ wrote:
On October 28 2017 01:58 dsyxelic wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:52 cLutZ wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.

For Janna its not mechanics, its that the way to beat her is proper coordination against her. She's a perfect example of why we need voice chat.


Janna does well in competitive play as well, I don't see how that holds. Voice chat would give her own team better coordination, so the point seems moot.

Janna has been 55% ish in soloq for 4+ seasons. She has never been a priority pick until ardent meta, and has gone through multiple year-long droughts of almost no play. I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.


lets not forget season 4 worlds

janna was played extensively. I think gorilla was the one that started it and then everyone hopped on. zero played it a lot and lustboy/mata played it a fair amount too. yes the ardent meta made her retarded but she is always strong when laning does not matter as much and hyper carries are meta.

she's also decent when splitpush/poke is good, I forget exactly when this was but I remember janna/trundle were super popular around the same time.


Yes, I do recall S4 worlds, which I think was really adopted because of Najin's fastpush strategy that won them the gauntlet. That's still just 2 periods separated by 3 years.

Worlds is just a snapshot, but:

S2: 0%
S3: 0%
S4: 68% P/B, 62% WR
S5: 4% P/B, 67%WR (0 In bracket stage)
S6: 0%


just wanted to correct you since you said never been a priority pick

Show nested quote +
I'd be surprised if, for instance, SKT supports playing with Faker have played Janna more than 5 times before the ardent buffs.

also this confuses me in your previous post since Wolf has definitely played janna more than 5 times. It was one of the 'unbeatable' skt champions for each position.

iirc - Marin's maokai, faker's leblanc, bang's kalista, wolf's janna had absurd 90%+ winrates with more than ~20 games at a certain point.


That is weird that I totally memory-holed that one pick in 2015. The stats show it is correct, I just don't remember it nearly as much as Faker LB, Bang Kalista, Marin Maokai. It is probably because 2015 SKT played it only once in playoffs (and lost), whereas all those other picks I can remember important plays with it.

Also, I've always considered Wolf to be kinda derpy and facechecking things (whence Wolf Alistar being his best pick), so Janna seems very much against my stereotype.

On October 28 2017 07:10 Jek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 01:03 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Ironically I think this came about because the playtest (not balance) team is exclusively Dia+ players. Based on preliminary stats, it seems that AP Galio had a pretty average winrate in high elo, because even though it did a lot of damage people would just play around it and beat it, like an AP Malphite. Whereas in lower elo, AP Galio had a much higher winrate as people would just keep inting into the Galio, as if the tenth time they got hit by EQW they wouldn't get one-shot.

Given the balance team's history of juggernaut Skarner, rework Leblanc, rework Janna and now Galio Q I dont have much faith in their actually ability to see what works in the game from both a balance or fun perspective.

PBE forum was literally a spam fest about issues with Skarner, everyone with just a inkling of an idea how to play Janna knew it was going to be a buff, Leblanc and Galio was just looking at numbers to realize it was fucking stupid.


I don't think the PBE is really a test realm. Its more of a distraction. Reworks have gotten severe negative feedback, they always go through. Even buggy reworks like Morde go through despite being bombarded by information about it. Its more just to tell them if the game is going to explode.
Freeeeeeedom
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 28 2017 00:10 GMT
#116
On October 28 2017 01:03 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2017 16:46 M2 wrote:
On October 27 2017 16:35 DarkCore wrote:
Pack it up boys, Riot says that the Galio Q changes are completely intentional, not a bug.



Yeah, yesterday, today Riot said that he is getting hot fixed...Riot stuff..

These statements aren't contradictory. People were speculating that maybe Galio was that strong because of a typo, but rather than take the copout they said that they intentionally but wrongfully made it that strong, and are now correcting it.

Show nested quote +
On October 28 2017 00:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
A few more riot balance team members need to get gold before season end with galio then they will hotfix it appropriately

Ironically I think this came about because the playtest (not balance) team is exclusively Dia+ players.


According to scarra the balance team member he asked about it told him they reported that is was way too good but ultimately they only make suggestions.
Carrilord has arrived.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 28 2017 03:03 GMT
#117
On October 28 2017 07:04 Sent. wrote:
Am I the only one who keeps missing Eve's Q while jungling due to spamming it like you did on old Eve?


Yeah I miss one at least once a clear.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4186 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-29 17:32:07
October 29 2017 17:31 GMT
#118
Did I miss something about the blue kayn? Every game I see kayn lately, regardless if its in my games or on stream its always the blue kayn and I mean always, I can't remember when was the last time I saw red kayn. Is it just me or whats going on?
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 29 2017 18:33 GMT
#119
He's considered a counterpick into Ezreal jungle, outside of that they're trolling
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
October 29 2017 22:20 GMT
#120
On October 30 2017 02:31 M2 wrote:
Did I miss something about the blue kayn? Every game I see kayn lately, regardless if its in my games or on stream its always the blue kayn and I mean always, I can't remember when was the last time I saw red kayn. Is it just me or whats going on?

Blue Kayn snowballs hard.
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