EPTright now how do you tell the difference between a good support and a great one in meta?
the great one doesnt get bored of lulu janna.
[Patch 7.21] RIP Ardent Censer General Discussion - Page 2
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
right now how do you tell the difference between a good support and a great one in meta? the great one doesnt get bored of lulu janna. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
They may not have the tech to do it Are Riot Indy dev memes meta again? Yo half the supports in the game right now weren't even around in S2/3, you guys are really making stuff up. And playing support felt terrible, you were a walking ward, and spent all your gold on pinks. Only thing I miss is Philo and HoG, never forget stacking those on Amumu jungle to get ahead. And Shurelyas, that item was basically a better Glory. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 25 2017 19:49 DarkCore wrote: Yo half the supports in the game right now weren't even around in S2/3, you guys are really making stuff up. And playing support felt terrible, you were a walking ward, and spent all your gold on pinks. Only thing I miss is Philo and HoG, never forget stacking those on Amumu jungle to get ahead. And Shurelyas, that item was basically a better Glory. It maybe felt shitty for non support mains, and bad supports. but it was a chance to totally outplay the other team for the ones who spent time to learn it. Its far worse to play support in censor meta than back then for those interested in stretching their skill. no skill differentiation past a point now at least not impactful ones, you gotta bail out of censor meta to show how good you are, and then you are just...hurting your team unless you are super going off. but if you are filling support i suppose its nice knowing you just need a keyboard to mash and a list of items to buy. Hell that was one of the complaints from supports at worlds about the meta, that they were struggling to differentiate themselves from their peers. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Didn't matter, I had exp advantage and could roam freely to get more gold elsewhere, or gave our jungle free solo dragons with all the vision. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
On October 25 2017 20:39 Sent. wrote: Not sure if I agree with "more vision means more aggression in solo Q". Most players have terrible map awareness, and usually back off only if they can literally see the incoming gank. One could argue that having deep vision allows you to tower dive safely, but I think tower dives are much rarer than overextended laners. Darkness should make killing them easier, which would be fine in solo q, but it would ruin the competitive play so I'd rather keep the vision easily available. The point is you ward up enemy jungle -> see where opponents are -> either kill them, predict where they'll go next and set a trap or GO IN HARD on the other side of the map knowing that you wont get rekt by late jungle intervention. I can still sometimes do that with double yellow ward but I do miss being able to just buy 2-3 wards every bluepill. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/13e5ef8326099fdeb67461144bdf9393.png) | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 25 2017 19:49 DarkCore wrote: Are Riot Indy dev memes meta again? Yo half the supports in the game right now weren't even around in S2/3, you guys are really making stuff up. And playing support felt terrible, you were a walking ward, and spent all your gold on pinks. Only thing I miss is Philo and HoG, never forget stacking those on Amumu jungle to get ahead. And Shurelyas, that item was basically a better Glory. I meant like how we can't deselect hero to control multiple. Engine was never designed for that. A shared shop may just be something that was never designed for and trying to do it now would be a big undertaking. I like(d) playing pos 5 support in dota. So not really making stuff up. Running around with boots and wards is fine as long as I brought something else to the game. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On October 25 2017 21:25 Ansibled wrote: This galio change... Shhhh. Let me play my assassin/tank in peace. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
But i looked at the galio changes and all they make me think is, what was the damn point of the rework. if he's going back to being an AP mage. Also support champs in S2/3 were so much stronger than they are now. Thresh is still playable but is probably half as strong as he used to be. Sona is weaker, Zyra does so much less damage, Blitz didnt have decaying speed and his hook CD was shorter, his base stats higher, Morg did more damage, her root was longer at early ranks. Alistar still had buffering post headbutt, and had built in AD on his ult, and his cooldowns were shorter. And then all the champs who lose base stats in favor of AP ratios when they started getting supports gold for free. . | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DM_KvI_W0AA3k2v.jpg) I know I posted similar already, but it's just funny to look at.  | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
No one wants to be the Lulu in this clip. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 25 2017 22:42 Ansibled wrote: I know I posted similar already, but it's just funny to look at. Lol that 550 AP also means that galio gets 67.5% plus 8% bonus MR magic reduction and like 40% physical reduction as well. Just why rework the champ away from a mage, only to make him a mage again. On October 25 2017 22:59 GrandInquisitor wrote: Have we really come full circle into pretending that season 3 was a fun time to play support? It was completely degenerate and the most skill required was the willingness to swallow your balls and buy 500 green wards plus maybe boots, because buying even Sightstone meant you were playing suboptimally. It was a shit period in the game's design to have 1/5 of your team have no agency whatsoever. No one wants to be the Lulu in this clip. LOL thats a perfect example of what i mean by skill differentiated. that lulu played that like garbage there and got punished. Tabe was a borderline one trick support. Outside of annie he was terrible in pro play. Notice how leona has no deaths, is 1/0/5, and is like 2k in items ahead because the leona played better, and was rewarded dramatically for it. but lulu played terribly all game, and got beat up on because tabe couldnt adapt. If you are a bad support you shouldnt be at the same gold and xp level of the other support. and if you dominate your opponent you shouldnt be the same censor bot they are. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On October 25 2017 22:59 GrandInquisitor wrote: Have we really come full circle into pretending that season 3 was a fun time to play support? It was completely degenerate and the most skill required was the willingness to swallow your balls and buy 500 green wards plus maybe boots, because buying even Sightstone meant you were playing suboptimally. It was a shit period in the game's design to have 1/5 of your team have no agency whatsoever. No one wants to be the Lulu in this clip. That's a 0/4 Lulu tanking a 5/0/10 Orianna. Same thing would pretty much have happend in current patch. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 25 2017 21:25 Ansibled wrote: This galio change... This doesn't really tell anything because every champion has very high win rates upon completing 3 items. For example Galio's most popular 3-item build was 57% winrate last patch. Even Lucian ADC was 57% winrate if he got to ER / Shiv / IE. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 25 2017 23:08 GrandInquisitor wrote: I'm not talking about just getting one shot. I'm talking about her being literally eight levels lower, half an hour into the game, and still having done literally nothing the entire game except place wards. That is why no one wanted to play support for years. She played terribly and got punished. thats a game tabe blew flash at lvl 1 because he was out of postion. and he kept getting caught in lane. he layed bad got punished. leona stomped got rewarded. as it should be. show me a game from the modern league where a support on one side had 6 kills they got for their team and the other is 0/5/0, where the ahead support is rewarded in any way personally. No, they are like ahead on the ardent or both have it and one has an upgraded coin. There is no reward for doing well on support except your team doing better. No one liked playing support (outside of support mains) because they sucked at it, and couldnt do anything because they sucked. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 25 2017 23:13 PrinceXizor wrote: She played terribly and got punished. thats a game tabe blew flash at lvl 1 because he was out of postion. and he kept getting caught in lane. he layed bad got punished. leona stomped got rewarded. as it should be. I have no idea why you think this is relevant. Lulu played poorly that game and got punished. Bad Lulus today continue to get punished. But no one wants to play a role that is allowed to buy nothing other than wards, because the role has no purpose other than placing wards for the entire game, regardless of whether you're doing well or poorly. On October 25 2017 23:13 PrinceXizor wrote: show me a game from the modern league where a support on one side had 6 kills they got for their team and the other is 0/5/0, where the ahead support is rewarded in any way personally. No, they are like ahead on the ardent or both have it and one has an upgraded coin. There is no reward for doing well on support except your team doing better. This is even more confusing. First you spent all this time extolling the virtues of being able to ward up the entire map to help your team. Now apparently that's not good enough, and you want me to find a game where modern supports are "personally rewarded" - because apparently it was so personally rewarding as a support to be able to back and buy 8 green wards instead of 4 green wards. | ||
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