EPT[Patch 7.21] RIP Ardent Censer General Discussion - Page 10
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Darius is partly just league design issue as a whole. You can't make melee damage dealers work unless you give them a shitton of mobility. Darius is some kind of attempt to make an immobile melee damage dealer which just didn't quite come together. He's either oppressive or not great. Don't see anything wrong with him being good against melees since that's kind of his purpose. The whole reset thing is a bit silly though. Makes it even harder to make him balanced. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
On November 03 2017 22:59 DarkCore wrote: They are very creative and interesting characters, they just don't fit the game's balance. He'd be better working at Valve making Dota, because pretty much all his champions have been staple meta picks and annihilate old champions. That flash orb collecting for example looks like it would dump on skill shot reliant champions, which make up like 75% of the champ pool. It only dumps on skillshot reliant champions if other people around, and I'm assuming it's relegated to Zoe's enemies, use their Flash. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On November 03 2017 23:19 Alaric wrote: They had to nuke every single skill on Thresh's kit to make him not better than pretty much anyone else save for super specific scenarios. ^ This is my problem with CertainlyT champions, they get released with pretty busted mechanics. Again, I am not denying his champions are fun and interactive, I just don't like the way they push 50% of the champions pool out of reasonable pro/high elo competition. They also almost all have some bs mechanics to them: + Show Spoiler + -Kalista's whole kit lulz, she's god tier at Worlds for a reason. -Zed ult has seen numerous nerfs to it. His shadows in general used to be quite toxic, although I think he is balanced decently right now, just not a meta champ. - Zyra was just bonkers when they released her, I remember trying her out in mid and dumpstering a Lux. The plant range nerfs and other tweaks moved her to the bot lane, where the introduction of Spell Thiefs made her a solid pick. She is still an extremely strong support in the right hands, and shuts down low mobility melee champs super hard. - Yasuo has one of the dumbest abilities in the game, his Windwall. It's a mechanics that revolves solely around the skill of the Yasuo, and has no counterplay for his opponent when used flawlessly. Back in the day, Dade was showing us just how ridiculous the champ could be. Add in his E and Yasuo is only being held back in the pro meta because they can play around him as a team. Individually though, Yasuo can beat most champions in lane, and all those OTP mains I see on high elo streams support that. - Darius post-juggernaut is not a good example, all those reworks were a failure. As it stands, Darius is top tier in 3vs3 because when he gets a kill reset he dominates small skirmishes, but on Summoner's Rift he is just a low elo destroyer. - Thresh defined the support meta for like 3 seasons. He's the Lee Sin of supports, Riot would hit him down with nerfs but he'd keep getting back up. His kit is still extremely strong on paper, it's just the Ardent meta left him totally out. I expect the tank support meta will also exclude him, but that's only because the next best option is still Ardent despite the nerfs. Again don't see the issue if Thresh is just 90% more interesting than most of the other supports. I'd have thresh perma over the bullshit that was Janna shield wars. They nuked most of his numbers but he still has his 4 core skills. I realize that our whole arguments are built on different premises, but did you really enjoy seeing Thresh every single game? Back when his numbers were a lot better, he was preventing people from even playing the likes of Janna because with one hook he could practically kill her, he would zone lanes harder than Leona because he had the leisure of choosing when to go in. And his single champion peel was/still is incredibly strong, it just isn't instant shielding like Janna/Lulu. Now he does pretty little damage, and his all in is almost non existant in tank support matchups like Ali or Taric, they just turn around and kill him when he goes in. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
@Kongoline - The whole fun to play vs unfair/unfun to play against is so weird. It's not a strict line but instead moves depending on the individual playing. Losing to something isn't fun for most people. Ultimately I feel it's more enjoyable if everyone is able to do "unfair" stuff to each other. You don't see heroes being played that aren't "unfair" in some regard. It's just an alternate way of looking at it. Instead of trying to make the negative experiences lesser, make it so there's more room for them to experience the positives. I'd rather them keep trying to make fun and interesting experiences to play at the cost of possibly meaning a % of the player base find it unfun to play against. You can't please everyone, trying to just makes a bland unfun experience. edit: I'm not saying some of his stuff hasn't been crazy over the top. Just that I enjoy the effort and think it's good to keep pushing cool stuff like he does. He needs someone being the more reasonable voice along with the balance team being faster to bring them to more reasonable levels. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
(Ive been on cer-T train since day 1) | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4100 Posts
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loSleb
Austria1389 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
Xypherous' champions on the other hand are all besides Orianna a pile of cancerous rage inducing bullshit. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On November 03 2017 23:06 Numy wrote: Darius Thresh Zyra Yasuo Kalista Zyra is his best, I think the balance team has done her pretty well. Thresh is the next best, and my only problem with him is since every skill is so powerful they chose to make him feel pretty weak. I'd have preferred if they made a small tweak to lantern instead: A) Let enemies take the lantern; or B) If an enemy clicks the lantern first it fizzles. A) Would obviously be my preference. Darius is IMO lame, but fine. A champion that the balance team needs to keep its eye on and nerf whenever needed. Actually think his release design was better than the rework, so thats not on him. Yasuo, for me, is a big no. Windwall is super dumb, it should have a cast time like Gragas barrel. His passive shield is dumb. The defense I'd have for Yasuo is, if you keep him really nerfed, he can occasionally pop up in pro games as a counterpick and that is kinda hype. Meta Yasuo is terrible for the game though, just like meta Kalista, which I don't think needs discussion. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On November 04 2017 05:03 Jek wrote: I love CertainlyT's champions, they all have unique and rewarding abilities. I actually like Darius' reset mechanic, if you allow a juggernaut to do their thing then they should do their thing - tear shit apart. Xypherous' champions on the other hand are all besides Orianna a pile of cancerous rage inducing bullshit. Which champions did he make? Legit curious, I've never heard of the guy. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 04 2017 00:16 DarkCore wrote: I realize that our whole arguments are built on different premises, but did you really enjoy seeing Thresh every single game? Back when his numbers were a lot better, he was preventing people from even playing the likes of Janna because with one hook he could practically kill her, he would zone lanes harder than Leona because he had the leisure of choosing when to go in. And his single champion peel was/still is incredibly strong, it just isn't instant shielding like Janna/Lulu. Now he does pretty little damage, and his all in is almost non existant in tank support matchups like Ali or Taric, they just turn around and kill him when he goes in. yes. Good threshes won games. bad threshes were embarrassing. Skill determinant supports are good for the game. full stop. Stuff like Rakan, Thresh, Pre nerf and rework Alistar (when it was tougher to combo, and he could auto post headbutt), pre rework zyra, Tahm Kench. should be the norm for supports. the champs should be stronger than other roles, to make up for not having items all the time. But now that supports get free gold, they have to be dumbed down and weaker so they dont take over. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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