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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Ornn, the Fire Below the Mountain, will be released during patch 7.17!
Patch 7.17: Live on Aug. 23rd, 2017
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Maybe I'm just stupid and haven't seen it, but where can I find the effects of the buffed items Ornn gives?
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On August 23 2017 03:54 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid and haven't seen it, but where can I find the effects of the buffed items Ornn gives?
Item +1k gold
Sunfire: +200HP, +30Armor, +100% burn vs minions and monsters
Abyssal: +200HP, +35MR
IE: +30AD
Cleaver: +150HP, +20AD
Deathcap: +55AP
Triforce: +10AD, +10%AS, +3%MS, +100HP, +100Mana
Item + 500g
Redemption: +100HP, +100%HP Regen, +50%Mana Regen
Locket: +15Armor, +15MR
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For the new thread, if you are going to be at pax and are willing to sell your Sivir code, please pm me.
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Also if you think Janna solo q win rate is an indicator of how op censor is you are pretty new to the solo q win rate game
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So, doing the math on IE only, Orn's upgrade is about as gold-efficient as BF sword in AD translations (technically BF would give 30.7 AD at 1k Gold). This makes it an interesting upgrade for lategame when you are item capped, or a midgame convenience item when you don't have the extra 300 for a Dragon/Baron (and you probably don't mind the space for wards).
Maybe some of the other ones are better goldwise and could offer interesting powerspikes, but I'll let the nerds decide.
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Sunfire stands out immediately to me, as uniquely useful, with the extra waveclear speed, though if that is a mistake and isn't a buff to the burn damage to minions then its just meh. and Redemption interests me only because there are so few ways to stack %mana regen with the new Athenes, that giving 10 more AP to the combo is neat.
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Locket, Redemption and Sunfire upgrades look pretty spicy.
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the thing i never understood about riot is some changes are done solely because they want to create a "story" for the champion.
their reasoning for hecarim changes is fucking stupid for what is supposed to be a competitive game.
you make balance changes and you leave what doesnt need to be touched, not change something to give more "cavalry feel". like wtf is that?
same with leblanc changes and any other stupid rework theyve done over the years because they didnt like the character rather than the actual gameplay.
looking at "balance" changes like these really make me miss pre-2014 dota tbh. too many storytellers in riot rather than actual gamers
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Yay, Ardent nerfs, Janna untouched though, oh well.
Looks like Riot wants to get Urgot into the meta, same with Ezreal, very grateful for that.
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On August 23 2017 17:04 DarkCore wrote:
Yay, Ardent nerfs, Janna untouched though, oh well.
Looks like Riot wants to get Urgot into the meta, same with Ezreal, very grateful for that.
Overall doesnt look like a big patch to change the meta, maybe they would like to keep this one for the worlds, which I approve, since, I like the meta.
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patch changes nothing guess another few weeks of cancer shields and hypercarry adc's face tanking me and 1v9 everything
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Is there a way to replace the danger ping from the top of the wheel with the new warded area ping? Coz for danger I am used to use the one with ctr+mouse button, so it will be really nice if I can make the upper wheel ping useful (I never managed to understand why they put two different danger pings anyway)
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On August 23 2017 23:41 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2017 17:04 DarkCore wrote:
Yay, Ardent nerfs, Janna untouched though, oh well.
Looks like Riot wants to get Urgot into the meta, same with Ezreal, very grateful for that. I like that they went just Ardent. Too often they nerf two things at once and it is too far. See how much the ardent nerf does and go from there. The double nerfs thing is something that gets brought up a lot on these threads.
Yah, it's still pretty strong tho.
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On August 24 2017 01:51 JimmiC wrote:
True but i dont think they wanted to kill the diversity. Its fine if its strong, its only bad if it crowds out the others
Yah, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever. Pretty sure it's actually even a bit stronger initially but doesn't scale as well (which is fine). TBH, I think the best thing they've done for the game in a long time is introduce 10 bans. I dislike how it is in solo-q, but it could be far, far worse.
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I will still whine about coin, which i believe is the truly op thing allowing passive laners to excel and warping soloq because of this. when picking coin isn't just viable on poke/mage supports, but actually optimal because its better mana regen on top of better gold, then its a goddam problem.
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Banning how it's done in competitive would take forever. I already thought the 6 ban system took long enough as it did.
It'll also risk the more games not being started due to afks or dodging imo.
Coin is the problem for Ardent 100%. Ardent is super strong, don't get me wrong, but being able to get it at ~10 minutes in the game if you're super greedy because you get to rack in 1000 gold more than your non opponent (supports having the same gold as junglers in competitive now btw (if gp10 runing happened iirc)) is pretty insane.
Possible solutions for coin; these don't stack, but snippets of each one could be combined to create something less oppressive than it is now:
-same amount of coins dropped, but more in the mana form and less mana given per coin
-make it more risky to pick of the coins, i.e. they spawn a little bit closer to the enemy
-have a trade off for picking up your coin: lower your mana per coin you take
-when you pick up the coin, you slow yourself (like the fruit), because dat gold be heavy mang. If this wouldn't be too oppressive, a 0.15 or 0.25s self root for literally putting it in your pocket.
-put your sells on cooldown for 0.5 seconds (could it be pushed to 1?) when you pick it up.
-take a small amount of damage when you pick it up (like 10-25 hp)
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There should be a downside to getting free gold spawning on the map for you. Spell's thief needs to use mana for spells, Targon's "wastes" an aa (=self root) for a stack. Not that it ever is consequential in laning, but still, a little trade off should be there; or do you think that the quest reward of the +1 skill is good enough?
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Imo they should delete the other two gold generating mechanics and just make it all like coin.
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I'm willing to argue coin is less op than the other options are up. Having the same gold as the jungler in competitive is a dumb comparison because the jungler is a support in competitive
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What's the problem with the support actually having gold? Buff Spellthief and Relic to match it's gold generation instead of nerfing shit just for the sake of nerfing.
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Well Supports Having gold isn't an issue. but it does enable lazy design with items, and just making everything roughly the same efficiency slotwise rather than differentiating cheap active items from powerful late game ones.
If Redemption gave 200 HP 50% Mana Regen and 8% Shield Strength for 1100 gold with the same active it'd be better for the game than 2100, for the same item +50 HP, 10% CDR 100% Regen and 50% HP Regen. Incredibly gold efficient incredibly slot inefficient items are good if they come with a powerful ability that can win a fight if you come out of base with it and start one.
Supports getting powerful items early is good, it lets them go about the map and Do things with them. Supports being able to pretty much avoid item spikes and just go a standard build+sightstone is less interesting. and just makes them delayed midlaners.
They had a good idea with the upgrades to support items with actives. but they hid it behind too much gold.
But i admit thats probably too much of a departure from their design philosophy of simplicity and conformity.
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Inflating passive gold income to that of one that's actively farming and shrugging that off because their roles are similar doesn't make sense.
How would you increase gold income for the other items? More stacks? More gold per stack?
I don't think you need more gold as a support, I think you need impactful items as a support, which is largely covered nowadays with ardent/redemption/locket/knight's vow/mikaels/sightstone/zeke's but perhaps some more could be made just to get some diversity going.
Supports are finally actually strong in the game and people whine about it, but 20k Cho nomming your adc while being unkillable is totally fine.
I feel like every role is in a good spot at the moment, LoL has never been in a healthier spot. The only role, like always, that still seems problematic is the Jungler. I'd wish it was possible not to be relegated to one playstyle at a time, so that we can see carry junglers and tank/supportive junglers evenly.
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So, who are the pre-eminent poke champs nowadays? Its traditionally the thing I am best at (I usually go too ham on engage champs, or trust teammates to take objectives elsewhere too much on splitpush champs), but now that I don't like new Ori I am not having much fun on any midlaner.
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Does Taliyah count as a poke champ. she's ubiquitous amongst good midlaners. Jayce is played pretty commonly as well usually picking into matchups though rather than first pick.
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honestly there are like...no good ap champs left for poking. syndra/ahri maybe?
you can try lb but its almost impossible to get the sigil proc off. other good range guys like tf dont have the oomf that makes you scared of the poke either. same goes for corki with his shit ulti dmg now
i miss the old lb so much...
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Those answers are sort of a bummer.
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Xerath is probably the best but it's not meta because engage is so meta atm
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Wait, since when are Ahri and Syndra poke champs?
Syndra's just a mess because excess numbers tho. And I remember being so hyped when she was released because of her mechanics, now I just sigh whenever she's picked because she's been made so bland...
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On August 24 2017 22:24 Alaric wrote:
Wait, since when are Ahri and Syndra poke champs?
Syndra's just a mess because excess numbers tho. And I remember being so hyped when she was released because of her mechanics, now I just sigh whenever she's picked because she's been made so bland...
She's pokish I guess idk. Generally want to land some poke then all in, not really normal poke though or her main identity. Poke is pretty awful and ocean drake being a thing doesn't help much. I'm fine with it though. Poke is super boring. Need more AD assassin meta to watch :D
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Meh, once she's got 2 items she can 100-0 squishies without any previous spheres if she hits her combo. She's just got excessive damage and gets boring because there's so little intricacy to having impact with her.
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On August 24 2017 23:53 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 22:24 Alaric wrote:
Wait, since when are Ahri and Syndra poke champs?
Syndra's just a mess because excess numbers tho. And I remember being so hyped when she was released because of her mechanics, now I just sigh whenever she's picked because she's been made so bland... She's pokish I guess idk. Generally want to land some poke then all in, not really normal poke though or her main identity. Poke is pretty awful and ocean drake being a thing doesn't help much. I'm fine with it though. Poke is super boring. Need more AD assassin meta to watch :D
Maybe if an ad assassin meta starts I can stop tilting when my Kayne teammates pick blue.
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On August 24 2017 11:32 Uldridge wrote:
Inflating passive gold income to that of one that's actively farming and shrugging that off because their roles are similar doesn't make sense.
How would you increase gold income for the other items? More stacks? More gold per stack?
I don't think you need more gold as a support, I think you need impactful items as a support, which is largely covered nowadays with ardent/redemption/locket/knight's vow/mikaels/sightstone/zeke's but perhaps some more could be made just to get some diversity going.
Supports are finally actually strong in the game and people whine about it, but 20k Cho nomming your adc while being unkillable is totally fine.
I feel like every role is in a good spot at the moment, LoL has never been in a healthier spot. The only role, like always, that still seems problematic is the Jungler. I'd wish it was possible not to be relegated to one playstyle at a time, so that we can see carry junglers and tank/supportive junglers evenly.
I dunno meta feels like shit to me. It is basically hardcore focused on bot lane picking a hyper carry and picking some support that makes him overpowered.
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Hypercarries wouldn't be necessary if tanks weren't so stronk x)
But it's basically what adcs are supposed to be, no? Give them long enough and the entire game revolves around their success. It's the reason why they have a support.
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Being limited so much in what you can pick is pretty shit to me. I hate the shiv/rfc/warlords combo too.
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Well Draven got nerfed, not that it's significant but it says something about riots thoughts on the matter
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On August 25 2017 01:56 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:53 Numy wrote:On August 24 2017 22:24 Alaric wrote:
Wait, since when are Ahri and Syndra poke champs?
Syndra's just a mess because excess numbers tho. And I remember being so hyped when she was released because of her mechanics, now I just sigh whenever she's picked because she's been made so bland... She's pokish I guess idk. Generally want to land some poke then all in, not really normal poke though or her main identity. Poke is pretty awful and ocean drake being a thing doesn't help much. I'm fine with it though. Poke is super boring. Need more AD assassin meta to watch :D Maybe if an ad assassin meta starts I can stop tilting when my Kayne teammates pick blue.
Lol. AD Assassin meta. Are you trying to generate a river of tears?
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I prefer the current jungle meta over Lee/Elise every game, although I think the top picks should be toned down a bit. For example increasing Sej E cd would be a pretty decent nerf that would bring her in line with other champs. Same goes for the Cho ult interaction, it would be good if that got slightly nerfed as well.
When that happens I think we might even see as much as 15 different jungle picks at worlds.
In that case the champs getting added to the meta would mostly be bruisers, which in turn opens up the ADC meta as well, especially if Ardent Censor or the champs that use it get hit in the next patch.
Toplane meta is pretty decent as well, and I think that touching dorans shield would just end up with a return to Jayce/Kennen every game, which was imo one of the worst states of League.
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On August 25 2017 01:56 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2017 23:53 Numy wrote:On August 24 2017 22:24 Alaric wrote:
Wait, since when are Ahri and Syndra poke champs?
Syndra's just a mess because excess numbers tho. And I remember being so hyped when she was released because of her mechanics, now I just sigh whenever she's picked because she's been made so bland... She's pokish I guess idk. Generally want to land some poke then all in, not really normal poke though or her main identity. Poke is pretty awful and ocean drake being a thing doesn't help much. I'm fine with it though. Poke is super boring. Need more AD assassin meta to watch :D Maybe if an ad assassin meta starts I can stop tilting when my Kayne teammates pick blue.
Would kayn even be good in ad assassin meta? The dude just looks pretty trash to me. You're hot garbage early game yet if you don't do shit early you're hot garbage for longer so what is the point. You aren't even that amazing later on so??? Just pick Kha'zix or something like that lol. Just seems like a pretty binary champ that's "snowball super early and win or feed your tits off" but he's harder to snowball because he's so shit as base form.
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Tanks don't even have that much impact. They're unkillable but in exchange they just tickle people, that's pretty lame. Then again I remember Nautilus being nerfed across the board because when his ganks went well enough to let him not trail too behind the solo lanes in exp, his base damage could deal around half a squishy's health with a full combo at level 7-9, what a tragedy. Meanwhile the acceptable non-tanks junglers would 100-0 them in the same position and not need to gank, just run around killing people.
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I even think coin's gold generation is sorta okay, if you remove the mana generation it also gives.
Infinite shields means there's no real punishment to the item's supposed lack of stats. You'd be making an actual choice at that point to be passive and greedy until you get another item.
Like how is this item viable, and even optimal in some circumstances, on someone like sona who just wants to poke 24/7. an item that's supposed to have no stats and be weak in lane is actually good on a support who wants to trade 24/7.
or at least heavily nerf mana coins until the last upgrade. like 5-10-15% missing and minimum so you aren't spewing mana from every orfice in lane.
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The problem is that riot makes Champs that need to spam to have the same impact in bot lane. So they need that regen. Sona is gonna struggle compared to Karma or Zyra if she cant spend mana like nobodies business, because the champ is designed to spam. Same with Soraka, It just provides too much to other champs that dont need the spam and just need timing, like janna.
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I think coin is the best designed support item. Ideally, the support meta should be Janna/Thresh/Nami focused most of the time. Making the coin mechanic the only gold generation style helps this, just make it 300 Gold for just the gold Gen with 3+ 50Gold upgrades that give stats. This will make it easier to define the roles of the non-generalist supports.
Blitz/Leona are the aggro niche supports, Sona/Soraka are poke niche (should be picked for comp), braum, taric, and kench are defensive, karma/lulu/zyra/morg are mage flex picks that should be balanced for mid more than support. And Alistar's remake is a boring disaster.
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For anyone who loves 1-2 players carrying terrible teammates, go watch LPL 3rd place match.
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but what kind of docs were for sale?
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Why jungle fiddle has 55% win rate ? (seen in champion.gg) Wtf is going on?
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Anyone have problem with their "honor" icon in the waiting room before the game start. I got Honor 4 and my icon (or ribbon) only show like 1/4 game.
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Didn't check to be sure, but I'm convinced my honor icons were displayed only in first games after "promotion" and remained hidden later.
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Honor loading screen flair only shows the game after receiving honor from 1 unknown player or 2 friended players.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 28 2017 04:52 Ansibled wrote:
but what kind of docs were for sale?
s2secretsgg.docx
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When you do the stoneplate + locket combo on a jungler it works with the bonus health from cinderhulk right?
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Yes, extremely temporarily, it was nerfed to not take that hp into account but was hot fixed back until a bug involving Kled is resolved
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They've made some bold choices with the runes rework, that's for sure. Not really worth discussing specifics this far out.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
It'll be interesting to see if it can change any champion that is currently a one-ult bot. Because there's enough CDR / "natural" cooldown reduction from ability leveling that nearly every champion's ultimate is always up for late game teamfights (the only exception I can think of is sometimes Karthus), but very few champions can cast a standard-cooldown ultimate twice in a teamfight. Imagine Vi or Malphite or Zilean being able to ult twice now.
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On September 01 2017 00:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if it can change any champion that is currently a one-ult bot. Because there's enough CDR / "natural" cooldown reduction from ability leveling that nearly every champion's ultimate is always up for late game teamfights (the only exception I can think of is sometimes Karthus), but very few champions can cast a standard-cooldown ultimate twice in a teamfight. Imagine Vi or Malphite or Zilean being able to ult twice now.
you also have to consider that every item in the game gives cdr. every champ always has 40% cdr by 25-30 minutes
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On September 01 2017 00:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if it can change any champion that is currently a one-ult bot. Because there's enough CDR / "natural" cooldown reduction from ability leveling that nearly every champion's ultimate is always up for late game teamfights (the only exception I can think of is sometimes Karthus), but very few champions can cast a standard-cooldown ultimate twice in a teamfight. Imagine Vi or Malphite or Zilean being able to ult twice now.
Imagine Orianna thrice in some extended fights and twice easily in most contested fights. 40% + fully stacked rune bring Shockwave down to 32s.
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If the other options are equally powerful 30 seconds sound probably unreliable. There is def going to be breakpoints on if these are even useful, assuming other options aren't terrible.
To be honest this rune sounds borderline useless on team fight characters. Far more useful for pick ults like talon or fizz idk though without the other runes this might be a dumb assumption.
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Just posting about this one last time since pax is now started, if you are going and are willing to sell your Pax sivir code please pm me. I
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I am saddened that CDR isn't a fairly unique stat to acquire anymore and has become so ubiquitous that they could remove it from the game and lower everyone's CD's by 40%
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I mean it still matters in the sense of the gold lead but otherwise yes.
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Its part of their general design philosophy wherein spamming spells and dodging said spells is a large part of the game.
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I'm going to get so much shit holy.
Gonna be good times.
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On September 02 2017 08:23 Amui wrote:I'm going to get so much shit holy. Gonna be good times.
Yup. Not going to lie, I'm a bit miffed about getting an effective 300ip return on my 2k IP runes.
I hope my rune page skins don't suck.
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I'm a little curious about blue essence generation as a 30+ player especially with first win of the day retiring probably won't matter much but it could, I feel like t6 and t7 mastery are maybe overpriced in light of this change.
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I'm going to end up getting 43.9k BE from runes alone.
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Hmmmm the blue essence change is sketchy to me. Everything else has been player positive. but im not sure about this thing. So now your blue essence is used for purchasing champs and you dont get it from any means other than chests? meaning players are incentivized even more heavily to buy into lootbox gambling system. They have a chance of getting no blue essence at all, and then implementing a system to guarantee a skin shard/gem. Calling it "bad luck protection" is even a bit devious since folk will be buying chests for champs now and skin shards and gems are exactly bad luck in those cases. Meaning if they are buying boxes to maybe luck into the champ they want they'll be left buying much more in the long term, than just buying the champ for RP. but the gambling aspect means people will be purchasing large volumes of chests even more.
ehhhhh can't say im super game that riot is removing "grinding for champs" in favor of gambling boxes.
To me gambling systems as a whole that provide tangible benefits (like non cosmetics aka champs) are really sketchy.
Makes me wonder if the entire change to runes was a result of this loot box orientation, So they can still make the "you cant buy power" claim, since blue essence coming from RP in the form of purchases boxes would directly lead to folk being able to buy runes with cash.
Gambling based progression is sketchy as hell to me.
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seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul
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I also hate the the adding of a bar which cannot ever be capped, that sort of stuff really bothers me even though it shouldn't
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On September 02 2017 09:46 Frolossus wrote:
seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul
I'm not sure this is true. I've only played since about season 4 and I have oodles of IP sitting around and numerous runes. Like sure we're getting shafted on rune return ratio, but we're also sitting on endless IP. The problem I see is if games don't give you BE as they did IP, then it basically forces BE to be a $ system is you don't want to farm chests/keys.
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On September 02 2017 10:12 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2017 09:46 Frolossus wrote:
seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul I'm not sure this is true. I've only played since about season 4 and I have oodles of IP sitting around and numerous runes. Like sure we're getting shafted on rune return ratio, but we're also sitting on endless IP. The problem I see is if games don't give you BE as they did IP, then it basically forces BE to be a $ system is you don't want to farm chests/keys.
tier 3 quints are being valued at ~300 ip with the system swap. lesser runes even cheaper. it's a massive rip off once again AND the new leveling system just forgets about the last 8 years of games i have banked beyond level 30
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On September 02 2017 10:22 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2017 10:12 geript wrote:On September 02 2017 09:46 Frolossus wrote:
seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul I'm not sure this is true. I've only played since about season 4 and I have oodles of IP sitting around and numerous runes. Like sure we're getting shafted on rune return ratio, but we're also sitting on endless IP. The problem I see is if games don't give you BE as they did IP, then it basically forces BE to be a $ system is you don't want to farm chests/keys. tier 3 quints are being valued at ~300 ip with the system swap. lesser runes even cheaper. it's a massive rip off once again AND the new leveling system just forgets about the last 8 years of games i have banked beyond level 30
it should be significantly harder to get every champ without RP now though. So anyone who bought on the IP system will have a significant advantage, as well as anyone with refunded runes.
So what if you miss out on 20-30k IP in runes, of the 200-300k of IP you've spent. new players are missing out on 9-15k based on current chest payouts leveling from 1-30 at 1 chest/level. which is a drastically larger proportion of their total spendable free currency.
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Really hard to get a read without knowing the average games/level. We know from the q&a 1 champ shard = 1/5 of a champion of that tier. But like how many games is a chest? And what's the champ shard drop rate with the level skewing announcement? If I get an average of one champion shard in 5 chests as a 30+ player and that shard is Annie, I'm just boned? Lot of variables we don't know yet.
I hate the lootbox direction gaming in general is moving towards I hope this is the last expansion but I doubt it.
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On September 02 2017 11:25 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2017 10:22 Frolossus wrote:On September 02 2017 10:12 geript wrote:On September 02 2017 09:46 Frolossus wrote:
seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul I'm not sure this is true. I've only played since about season 4 and I have oodles of IP sitting around and numerous runes. Like sure we're getting shafted on rune return ratio, but we're also sitting on endless IP. The problem I see is if games don't give you BE as they did IP, then it basically forces BE to be a $ system is you don't want to farm chests/keys. tier 3 quints are being valued at ~300 ip with the system swap. lesser runes even cheaper. it's a massive rip off once again AND the new leveling system just forgets about the last 8 years of games i have banked beyond level 30 it should be significantly harder to get every champ without RP now though. So anyone who bought on the IP system will have a significant advantage, as well as anyone with refunded runes. So what if you miss out on 20-30k IP in runes, of the 200-300k of IP you've spent. new players are missing out on 9-15k based on current chest payouts leveling from 1-30 at 1 chest/level. which is a drastically larger proportion of their total spendable free currency.
What's the math on that? Should I go on a champ buying spree with my IP?
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The value of your ip now is not changing, however the accumulation rate is *probably* reduced for a 30+ player we don't know enough yet. [for the purpose of this post I will refer to essence as IP because I think it is easier]
what we know now:
1)Flat IP drops from playing are gone, the only source of IP will be disenchanting champion Shards or the random small amounts that come in chests currently(I'll touch on this later). This is being replaced by ongoing XP and a 1 Chest per level reward system
2)to make up the current difference is current essence is going to be multiplied by some number to take it to the ip equivalant assuming dust per d/e is = 1/3 of ip needed to purchase champion.
3)d/e is getting nerfed on the launch of this system so that dust per d/e= 1/5 of a champion of that price.
4)chest drop rates are changing, all that we know is that sub level 30 they should favor champion shards, above level 30 they should favor other shards. The random blue essence drops currently in chests was not mentioned, but I mention here that with drops changing it could potentially change, although that was not specifically mentioned only that drop rates are being adjusted.
5)I'm a little confused on this next point so bear with me. as far as I can tell the champion ON the shard is pointless other than tier now, Having the shard gives you a 20% discount on that champion, however a d/e is supposedly 20% of the needed dust? maybe it's an RP coupon? The wording is unclear
6)XP needed to level is capped, it is not specified where (hopefully 30) but it does not scale infinitely eventually cutting you off of blue essence
7)t6 & t7 mastery are scaling in price with the BE Change, so they are "basically" the same, they are losing value compared to 1 d/e but thats sorta double dipping that nerf to describe this as losing value.
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tl;dr I would de any champion shards I have before the Preseason patch, nothing else matters much. (as far as prep)
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On September 02 2017 12:17 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2017 11:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 02 2017 10:22 Frolossus wrote:On September 02 2017 10:12 geript wrote:On September 02 2017 09:46 Frolossus wrote:
seems like veteran players getting screwed over once again in favor of new players for both the IP overhaul and leveling overhaul I'm not sure this is true. I've only played since about season 4 and I have oodles of IP sitting around and numerous runes. Like sure we're getting shafted on rune return ratio, but we're also sitting on endless IP. The problem I see is if games don't give you BE as they did IP, then it basically forces BE to be a $ system is you don't want to farm chests/keys. tier 3 quints are being valued at ~300 ip with the system swap. lesser runes even cheaper. it's a massive rip off once again AND the new leveling system just forgets about the last 8 years of games i have banked beyond level 30 it should be significantly harder to get every champ without RP now though. So anyone who bought on the IP system will have a significant advantage, as well as anyone with refunded runes. So what if you miss out on 20-30k IP in runes, of the 200-300k of IP you've spent. new players are missing out on 9-15k based on current chest payouts leveling from 1-30 at 1 chest/level. which is a drastically larger proportion of their total spendable free currency. What's the math on that? Should I go on a champ buying spree with my IP?
Your IP is gonna be worth the same. Its that no one is going to be getting Blue essence as fast as they got IP, unless they are getting crazy drops. And the IP you 'miss out on' is the result of runes being removed from the game and only partially refunded, rather than totally refunded. You'll actually see a bump in your essence/IP significantly from that.
But new accounts will take forever to get champs above the 1350 IP/Essence marker, without some luck in lootbox gambling.
And if you dont play often you will likely end up with much less ability to "keep up" with new champ releases if you waste your essence on the limited time essence shop. Only folk grinding hard or playing in groups for that sweet honor drops will be able to keep up down the road.
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I get lots of honer per game just by not saying anything and because drunk me tanked my Elo pretty hard a while ago so I carry often.
Such is the idiocy of the honor system: People basically just honor who wins the game for them. Also tis the idiocy of the reporting system. People just report those who flame while losing.
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This new way of getting IP seems like it will suck, but I'll have like 60k so I guess I don't care?
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On September 02 2017 17:01 cLutZ wrote:
I get lots of honer per game just by not saying anything and because drunk me tanked my Elo pretty hard a while ago so I carry often.
Such is the idiocy of the honor system: People basically just honor who wins the game for them. Also tis the idiocy of the reporting system. People just report those who flame while losing.
The honor system gets a lot of flak for not being "special" but I don't really see the issue. It's basically a system that just gives free stuff every now and then as long as you are a baseline non asshole player. Maybe they need to be a bit stricter on what they consider asshole though. It's like that system smite had where if you a good boy you stay at 100% while every bad boy thing you go lowers it. Honor being something everyone will get eventually to high is fine.
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wait we wont get ip for games anymore?
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On September 02 2017 20:28 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2017 17:01 cLutZ wrote:
I get lots of honer per game just by not saying anything and because drunk me tanked my Elo pretty hard a while ago so I carry often.
Such is the idiocy of the honor system: People basically just honor who wins the game for them. Also tis the idiocy of the reporting system. People just report those who flame while losing. The honor system gets a lot of flak for not being "special" but I don't really see the issue. It's basically a system that just gives free stuff every now and then as long as you are a baseline non asshole player. Maybe they need to be a bit stricter on what they consider asshole though. It's like that system smite had where if you a good boy you stay at 100% while every bad boy thing you go lowers it. Honor being something everyone will get eventually to high is fine.
Dunno about you guys, but I'm getting keys every single day I log in and I've achieved lv 5 honor without even paying attention to the feature. I don't write much in chat usually, apparently being the silent type makes people love you.
Think it's totally alright for people to get honor so long as they aren't toxic, especially if they're not try harding, I actually end up reporting more goodie two-shoes because they're passive aggressive than people who straight up flame or troll.
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i'm really annoyed that runes are being refunded at 10% or less when we were promised at least 50% or better before and 100% for rp spent on pages a couple months ago
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On September 03 2017 00:59 Frolossus wrote:
i'm really annoyed that runes are being refunded at 10% or less when we were promised at least 50% or better before and 100% for rp spent on pages a couple months ago
Was that an offical statement? I seemed to have missed it.
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On September 02 2017 20:42 kongoline wrote:
wait we wont get ip for games anymore?
the only way you'll get IP/essence with the new system is by leveling up your account or getting chest drops that you open with key drops.
Or by purchasing loot boxes for RP.
On September 03 2017 00:52 DarkCore wrote:
Dunno about you guys, but I'm getting keys every single day I log in and I've achieved lv 5 honor without even paying attention to the feature. I don't write much in chat usually, apparently being the silent type makes people love you.
Think it's totally alright for people to get honor so long as they aren't toxic, especially if they're not try harding, I actually end up reporting more goodie two-shoes because they're passive aggressive than people who straight up flame or troll.
No issue with the system for keys.
but getting 1 chest/champ per season is gonna be real bad for players with small champ pools unlocked. With it being the only way outside of leveling an account to get IP/Essence. It seems to be backwards for whats good for players. Players without many champs need more essence, but players with a lot of champs need less.
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also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it)
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On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it)
It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests
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On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests
but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL
Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you.
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On September 03 2017 07:32 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you.
Well I mean, I'm going to have a lot of spare blue essence when they do the refunds...
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On September 03 2017 07:44 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 07:32 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you. Well I mean, I'm going to have a lot of spare blue essence when they do the refunds...
You will, but I think PX is looking at it holistically. What happens to people who just recently hit 30. Is the IP well going to dry up? Assuming the uncapped leveling follow standard leveling mechanics, each level requiring more xp than the last, chest will get further and further in between.
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On September 03 2017 07:44 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 07:32 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you. Well I mean, I'm going to have a lot of spare blue essence when they do the refunds...
You'll be fine, unless you dump your essence in the "gold sink" store they are introducing "for a limited time only" when everyone is getting that huge spike of Essence.
They are pretty much giving you ~half your IP back, and then telling you to spend it in this new shop with huge prices. And then cutting your IP income dramatically from then on. It's definitely playing into peoples psychology to get them to burn all their IP, and then after when they can't farm up for champs, they need to buy lootboxes or RP to buy champs from then on.
Especially since we dont know the drop rate of lootboxes and how likely its going to be to get essence or a new champ (if thats even possible at all). It's a significantly less consumer friendly model.
Though if you have a full set of runes you can probably coast for a year or so on the Essence injection if you are smart and save it for champs. Longer if you are willing to wait until the price shift down from 8k to 6k. What will really be interesting is if the pace of champ release changes, or they introduce more "duo" champs like rakan/xayah. because a faster pace would mean folk burn through that IP reserve faster and have to start spending cash.
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On September 03 2017 07:48 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 07:44 Ansibled wrote:On September 03 2017 07:32 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you. Well I mean, I'm going to have a lot of spare blue essence when they do the refunds... You will, but I think PX is looking at it holistically. What happens to people who just recently hit 30. Is the IP well going to dry up? Assuming the uncapped leveling follow standard leveling mechanics, each level requiring more xp than the last, chest will get further and further in between.
The Riot guys were talking about it on reddit a bit. It sounds like they want it to be similar kind of progression or better than currently. The way they doing stuff now feels like they want people to have access to champs so they spend tons of money on those super expensive skins they pumping out now. Just that getting IP in "chunks" from lootbox style stuff is most likely more rewarding than the slow progression you get with current system. People are notoriously bad at dealing with small gradual changes compared to once off big splashes. They noted the system should "soft reset" in a way to make sure you don't get stuck at crazy xp levels.
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On September 03 2017 07:48 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 07:44 Ansibled wrote:On September 03 2017 07:32 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 03 2017 06:10 Slusher wrote:On September 03 2017 06:05 kongoline wrote:
also if i get chat restricted i will be locked out of essence for god knows how long (i know it persists even after u finish it) It would be bad for you, but you would still get the level up chests but there is also a system to guarantee you dont get champ drops every once in a while. and they had the nerve to call it "bad luck protection" LOL Orange essence is significantly less valuable than blue essence now, so lets ensure you get orange instead of blue every once in a while, and call it protecting you. Well I mean, I'm going to have a lot of spare blue essence when they do the refunds... You will, but I think PX is looking at it holistically. What happens to people who just recently hit 30. Is the IP well going to dry up? Assuming the uncapped leveling follow standard leveling mechanics, each level requiring more xp than the last, chest will get further and further in between.
This is confirmed not true please read the thread
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Oh yeah, the chest limitation kind of sucks. But I just play a bunch of 3vs3 with champions I don't usually play and get them that way. I mean if you think about it, 20+ chests is quite a lot of free stuff, Riot hasn't made it impossible for people who invest a lot of time but no money to still get skins. I actually haven't spent anything on the game in two years.
I realise that the changes to blue essence, aka slowing down gains per game, doesn't really affect me considering that I own almost every champion in the game. But it kind of sucks for new players: they're going to get more champ drops in the new system, but it looks to be harder to get skins. The leveling system looks interesting though.
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guess as a guy who plays maybe 4-6 champions at a time i wont be getting many new shards under new system .
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I am a f2p player and I have gotten a lot of free stuff since hextech was included, I have more chests than keys too, of course. Overall the current system is good at giving people free stuff, and chests can be obtained easily in the weekend modes, blood moon is very good for it, quick games avoid inting kill a lot and you will get S- or more
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On September 03 2017 21:23 kongoline wrote:
guess as a guy who plays maybe 4-6 champions at a time i wont be getting many new shards under new system .
You don't get many new shards under current system either?
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Yeah, I thought that the new system would let players who play few champs but a lot of games easier access to shards.
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On September 03 2017 22:10 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 21:23 kongoline wrote:
guess as a guy who plays maybe 4-6 champions at a time i wont be getting many new shards under new system . You don't get many new shards under current system either?
ye but i still get IP per game which lets me buy new champions afaik in s8 that wont be the case ?
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On September 03 2017 23:31 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2017 22:10 Numy wrote:On September 03 2017 21:23 kongoline wrote:
guess as a guy who plays maybe 4-6 champions at a time i wont be getting many new shards under new system . You don't get many new shards under current system either? ye but i still get IP per game which lets me buy new champions afaik in s8 that wont be the case ?
Now instead of getting IP per game you get a capsule when you level. The Capsule can contain shards as well as Blue essence. Blue essence is being merged with IP while costs are all staying the same. They say it should net to be slightly more gain in the long term.
So really it seems even better for players that play a few champs since now it's not tied to champs. Here is all the information, suggest taking a look. Unless I've grossly misread something I believe that is how it works going forward.
http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/09/upcoming-changes-to-leveling-ip-rewards/
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Even at 1/5 cost and assuming you never get a skin shard/gem and always get a 6300 champ shard at 1/5
Thats only 1260 per level. Thats the equivalent (a 50% winrate player) playing just under 9 (~25 minute) games in a single day.
You gain an average of 100 Account Xp per game currently, and assuming the 29-30 Xp gap is the distance it'll be. you are looking at an average of just over 13 games per chest.
So You are losing 4 games of IP per day if you play a lot. And significantly more if you play less often (No first win of the day to boost ya).
You have to make up that IP with chest AND key drops. With which per season you can get a maximum of ~173880 IP from chest + Key drops (assuming you own every champ, play every champ, get chests and a key for every chest, and only ever get the highest IP amount possible from a chest), at the current champ amount. And a minimum, again assuming wrongly you only ever get champ shards of 11970.
Which means if you play every single champ in the GAME, get 399 key fragments, and ONLY ever get 6300 IP shards, and never skin/gem (which there is a system to guarantee). Then you'll afford every champ ever. But if you get the minimum you'll fall behind about 4.1 champs per season a number, buying them at 6300.
We have no idea how much the real average we'll be. we dont know the gambling odds of chests. the odds of cheap drops vs expensive ones. the rate at which you'll be forced to get skin shards.etc.
But you get less IP from just playing the game. Assuming you grind 9+ games a day. And significantly significantly less IP per day if you play less, due to a lack of first win bonus.
This system provides less to most players, though a few will be lucky and do very well. some will be extra screwed. They 'needed' to do this, only from a financial perspective. as runes were the IP sink for players, to force them to buy champs with RP.This works with newer accounts. but eventually accounts get the full set and never need to buy again. the options were release more runes to keep up the total value of the sink, and risk power creep, alienating new players with a gulf of grinding. Or remove rune system entirely and drastically cut IP gain. They did the latter.
Also important to note when they are estimating 'you'll get IP at the same rate'. they are saying both that its random (some will get even faster!, neglecting to mention some folk will be screwed) and they expect everyone to be profiting constantly from honor drops and using every mastery chest, as well as factoring in no longer buying runes.
They had to add in 3 other systems to balance out how much IP you are losing over old system.
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Level up chests will come unlocked, no key required.
Otherwise most of it checks out.
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On September 04 2017 05:20 Slusher wrote:
Level up chests will come unlocked, no key required.
Yes. i was assuming that as well since they said so.
Mastery chests though. you need 3 key fragment drops to access. which is the point.
Assuming each champ is equally likely to be found in a chest. and you only find champ shards
A Chest is worth an average of 762.18 IP.
Assuming each value is equally likely to be found in a chest, and you only find champ shards
A Chest if worth an average of 642 IP.
In reality we know that these cases are worth less, because of skin shards/gems. But we dont know whether either of these methods are used. Assuming the most favorable to the player and moving forward. This is the equivalent of 6 twenty-five minute games at a 50% winrate With no Win/Day Bonus. ~4.82 Games with the Win bonus.
You need to open an average of 1.165 Chests per 13 games, In addition to your free level up chest in order to maintain the same IP gain. Assuming you never got first win of the day before or after. Which means you'd need 3.495 key fragments every 13 games. Im not sure about you guys. but i definitely am not getting a key fragment every 4 games.
Again, assume the real numbers are pushed further against the player in every way, due to mandating you get non champ shards every once in a while, and have a chance to not get champ shards. Which will be SOMEWHAT countered by being able to get multidrops from chests
But for the multidrops to balance out you'd need to get more than 2 items per chest. but they said it s a chance to get up to 2. So its not really much of a factor in measuring how much you are losing.
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I just wish they'd make a special icon or something for people like me that own all runes. :'(
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 04 2017 05:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
Also important to note when they are estimating 'you'll get IP at the same rate'. they are saying both that its random (some will get even faster!, neglecting to mention some folk will be screwed) and they expect everyone to be profiting constantly from honor drops and using every mastery chest, as well as factoring in no longer buying runes.
They had to add in 3 other systems to balance out how much IP you are losing over old system.
This is kind of unfair since the whole point is that it all comes in one package. It's just as valid to say that they added in BE to reduce how much IP were you gaining from the other three systems being added.
I personally think gutting WotD is a really, really poor business move from Riot's part. A lot of people log in for that "first win" bonus each day. They should absolutely keep that.
Apart from that ... it's hard to care about this sort of thing. The game is the game, and there's this weird new metagame evolving alongside it with loot, mastery, chests, capsules, etc. Some people get all butthurt because they've calculated that they're getting 4.65% less internet points in the new metagame, or because they spent their imaginary internet points on things that are going away, and want refunds, and are somehow getting refunds (why?), but now they're mad that their refunds aren't at a favorable enough ratio to the new internet points.
But does anybody really actually care about this? It's just all bullshit and noise designed to keep people with poor financial sense engaged in the game, like all F2P games. The game is intentionally designed so that fiscally prudent people can enjoy it without spending much money and dumb people can spend hundreds or thousands on useless shit to pay for everybody else to enjoy LCS. If you're smart you can extract extra value out of it in exchange for playing the game, and so I guess people are complaining that they aren't able to squeeze more value out of it now. But the system doesn't exist for that purpose. At the end of the day it's to get money from fools who need reasons to spend their money on useless shit. So bitching about it is like bitching about Vegas.
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I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass.
2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass.
I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of!
2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares?
For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions.
At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them.
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On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass. I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of!
No. You took it way too far. I contrasted LOL with Hearthstone (which I haven't even played past the initial missions and a few PVP games, so I am no master of, but its the most famous GASHA game IMO). I said this potentially makes it more like Hearthstone, which I just don't like that design direction.
On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares? For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions. At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them.
Nah, I don't assume that at all. I have like 40k IP and dozens of unlocked champions. Part of this is role selection, part of it is just finding champs boring. I do think that not having all 136 does put you at a competitive disadvantage simply because character swapping is so powerful outside of blindpick (but its probably more like 100 that you need then).
Also the "AD Ahri" thing is stupid thing to bring up. The relevant standard is whether 2 players, given the same talent, dedication, and practice are on the same level, or at least close enough. I don't care if those guys are bronze 5 or Challenger, my preferred design is that they are the same. Part of this is me not wanting to pull the ladder up behind me, and part of it is that if I roleswapped my 40k excess IP would be gone in a second (if the meta hated me). Lets say I start wanting to be a toplaner because I love Cho and Jax, and actually fairly good and they are good so I win lots. Then my boys get nerfed, and the meta is Ornn/Aatrox/Gnar/Kled. I'm fine, I can buy these new OP guys, but some other guy can't, probably. If I buy them, then decide I want to switch to mid, and mid is infested with A-Sol, Lucian, and Lissandra, + new champ, I'm out of IP, and that is hilarious but still stupid given how active I am, and how long I have been (which goes back to my initial point of them being slow). So its both risk management and altruism combined for me here.
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he would be op if they let his e knock up without terrain
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For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions.
Thought this was the whole point of the update.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 05 2017 14:00 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass. I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of! No. You took it way too far. I contrasted LOL with Hearthstone (which I haven't even played past the initial missions and a few PVP games, so I am no master of, but its the most famous GASHA game IMO). I said this potentially makes it more like Hearthstone, which I just don't like that design direction.
Except that this exactly the design direction you claim to want, because it removes runes, which is a way larger barrier to a level playing field than owning the right champions.
Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares? For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions. At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them. Nah, I don't assume that at all. I have like 40k IP and dozens of unlocked champions. Part of this is role selection, part of it is just finding champs boring. I do think that not having all 136 does put you at a competitive disadvantage simply because character swapping is so powerful outside of blindpick (but its probably more like 100 that you need then). Also the "AD Ahri" thing is stupid thing to bring up. The relevant standard is whether 2 players, given the same talent, dedication, and practice are on the same level, or at least close enough. I don't care if those guys are bronze 5 or Challenger, my preferred design is that they are the same. Part of this is me not wanting to pull the ladder up behind me, and part of it is that if I roleswapped my 40k excess IP would be gone in a second (if the meta hated me). Lets say I start wanting to be a toplaner because I love Cho and Jax, and actually fairly good and they are good so I win lots. Then my boys get nerfed, and the meta is Ornn/Aatrox/Gnar/Kled. I'm fine, I can buy these new OP guys, but some other guy can't, probably. If I buy them, then decide I want to switch to mid, and mid is infested with A-Sol, Lucian, and Lissandra, + new champ, I'm out of IP, and that is hilarious but still stupid given how active I am, and how long I have been (which goes back to my initial point of them being slow). So its both risk management and altruism combined for me here.
A person who claims they can't climb because their champions aren't in meta is the saddest of excuses. If you are Silver 3 you aren't going to hit Gold just because you switched mains to the "meta".
More generally skill expression in League is tied very little, if at all, to champion selection. This is different from Hearthstone, where ~70% of your skill is determined by stuff you pay for, and there are literal unwinnable matchups unless you buy certain cards. Nothing like that is true in League.
The only people for whom your argument is true are the absolute beginners - the sub 30's that need a jungler other than Warwick and Nunu. And this system is way better for them. The only people that suffer are people who play a ton, and if they're complaining, it's not because of competitive disadvantage, it's that they can't stand to be earning fewer imaginary internet points now.
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I think Ornn is not that bad after the hotfix, if they do the max hp change to w, he might be pro viable, def rank up viable.
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On September 06 2017 00:42 Slusher wrote:
I think Ornn is not that bad after the hotfix, if they do the max hp change to w, he might be pro viable, def rank up viable.
I mean I think he was fine before the hotfix.
Just don't do this
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/AinzsVE.png)
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The pillar change feels really good though.
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On September 05 2017 23:42 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 14:00 cLutZ wrote:On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass. I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of! No. You took it way too far. I contrasted LOL with Hearthstone (which I haven't even played past the initial missions and a few PVP games, so I am no master of, but its the most famous GASHA game IMO). I said this potentially makes it more like Hearthstone, which I just don't like that design direction. Except that this exactly the design direction you claim to want, because it removes runes, which is a way larger barrier to a level playing field than owning the right champions. Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares? For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions. At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them. Nah, I don't assume that at all. I have like 40k IP and dozens of unlocked champions. Part of this is role selection, part of it is just finding champs boring. I do think that not having all 136 does put you at a competitive disadvantage simply because character swapping is so powerful outside of blindpick (but its probably more like 100 that you need then). Also the "AD Ahri" thing is stupid thing to bring up. The relevant standard is whether 2 players, given the same talent, dedication, and practice are on the same level, or at least close enough. I don't care if those guys are bronze 5 or Challenger, my preferred design is that they are the same. Part of this is me not wanting to pull the ladder up behind me, and part of it is that if I roleswapped my 40k excess IP would be gone in a second (if the meta hated me). Lets say I start wanting to be a toplaner because I love Cho and Jax, and actually fairly good and they are good so I win lots. Then my boys get nerfed, and the meta is Ornn/Aatrox/Gnar/Kled. I'm fine, I can buy these new OP guys, but some other guy can't, probably. If I buy them, then decide I want to switch to mid, and mid is infested with A-Sol, Lucian, and Lissandra, + new champ, I'm out of IP, and that is hilarious but still stupid given how active I am, and how long I have been (which goes back to my initial point of them being slow). So its both risk management and altruism combined for me here. A person who claims they can't climb because their champions aren't in meta is the saddest of excuses. If you are Silver 3 you aren't going to hit Gold just because you switched mains to the "meta". More generally skill expression in League is tied very little, if at all, to champion selection. This is different from Hearthstone, where ~70% of your skill is determined by stuff you pay for, and there are literal unwinnable matchups unless you buy certain cards. Nothing like that is true in League. The only people for whom your argument is true are the absolute beginners - the sub 30's that need a jungler other than Warwick and Nunu. And this system is way better for them. The only people that suffer are people who play a ton, and if they're complaining, it's not because of competitive disadvantage, it's that they can't stand to be earning fewer imaginary internet points now.
I still believe you can make it Diamond without any real skills, with any champion. I started climbing in S3 by writing a list of 16 champions I would play, 3-4 for each role. For the roles I sucked at, I wrote noob champs like Singed and Mundo. You can still play these champions and win games, in fact Singed was arguably reworked to be stronger. The only time you're going to be at a massive disadvantage in low elos is when you meet someone who knows their champion better and maybe counters you, which is basically the exact opposite of what his whole argument was.
Not everything is viable in League, it's why we have a meta. But in 95% of the cases, that doesn't matter to 98% of the player base, because the more important thing is their own skill.
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On September 07 2017 16:56 DarkCore wrote:
I still believe you can make it Diamond without any real skills, with any champion.
[...]
But in 95% of the cases, that doesn't matter to 98% of the player base, because the more important thing is their own skill.
That doesn't seem quite clear.
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if u really want diamond right now just abuse one of the censer 55% winrate supports play 500 games and u will get there
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Ew, no, I'd rather play Blitzcrank/Malphite/Amumu
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that doesnt actually work though, only generally pushes you on the curve a little more then usual. If somebody mains an OP champ and they are still at a shitty rank, they are usually much worse then the average player at macro parts of the game. So many jannas and sejuanis/other tank junglers right now that are just horrible players. Had a maokai yesterday that invaded red side from top when his laners are vayne and kassadin, lol. We surrendered at 15 mins
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Holy shit this Invasion game mode is garbage, I can't believe they spent time and money on this.
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On September 07 2017 16:56 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 23:42 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 14:00 cLutZ wrote:On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass. I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of! No. You took it way too far. I contrasted LOL with Hearthstone (which I haven't even played past the initial missions and a few PVP games, so I am no master of, but its the most famous GASHA game IMO). I said this potentially makes it more like Hearthstone, which I just don't like that design direction. Except that this exactly the design direction you claim to want, because it removes runes, which is a way larger barrier to a level playing field than owning the right champions. On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares? For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions. At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them. Nah, I don't assume that at all. I have like 40k IP and dozens of unlocked champions. Part of this is role selection, part of it is just finding champs boring. I do think that not having all 136 does put you at a competitive disadvantage simply because character swapping is so powerful outside of blindpick (but its probably more like 100 that you need then). Also the "AD Ahri" thing is stupid thing to bring up. The relevant standard is whether 2 players, given the same talent, dedication, and practice are on the same level, or at least close enough. I don't care if those guys are bronze 5 or Challenger, my preferred design is that they are the same. Part of this is me not wanting to pull the ladder up behind me, and part of it is that if I roleswapped my 40k excess IP would be gone in a second (if the meta hated me). Lets say I start wanting to be a toplaner because I love Cho and Jax, and actually fairly good and they are good so I win lots. Then my boys get nerfed, and the meta is Ornn/Aatrox/Gnar/Kled. I'm fine, I can buy these new OP guys, but some other guy can't, probably. If I buy them, then decide I want to switch to mid, and mid is infested with A-Sol, Lucian, and Lissandra, + new champ, I'm out of IP, and that is hilarious but still stupid given how active I am, and how long I have been (which goes back to my initial point of them being slow). So its both risk management and altruism combined for me here. A person who claims they can't climb because their champions aren't in meta is the saddest of excuses. If you are Silver 3 you aren't going to hit Gold just because you switched mains to the "meta". More generally skill expression in League is tied very little, if at all, to champion selection. This is different from Hearthstone, where ~70% of your skill is determined by stuff you pay for, and there are literal unwinnable matchups unless you buy certain cards. Nothing like that is true in League. The only people for whom your argument is true are the absolute beginners - the sub 30's that need a jungler other than Warwick and Nunu. And this system is way better for them. The only people that suffer are people who play a ton, and if they're complaining, it's not because of competitive disadvantage, it's that they can't stand to be earning fewer imaginary internet points now. I still believe you can make it Diamond without any real skills, with any champion. I started climbing in S3 by writing a list of 16 champions I would play, 3-4 for each role. For the roles I sucked at, I wrote noob champs like Singed and Mundo. You can still play these champions and win games, in fact Singed was arguably reworked to be stronger. The only time you're going to be at a massive disadvantage in low elos is when you meet someone who knows their champion better and maybe counters you, which is basically the exact opposite of what his whole argument was. Not everything is viable in League, it's why we have a meta. But in 95% of the cases, that doesn't matter to 98% of the player base, because the more important thing is their own skill.
Can confirm. The only thing I'm good at is watching the minimap and spam danger and missing pings.
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On September 08 2017 03:32 Ansibled wrote:
Holy shit this Invasion game mode is garbage, I can't believe they spent time and money on this.
Don't forget that you have to find 4 other people willing to play this bullshit, are good enough to win it, AND win it at least 7 times if my count is correct (once with each team minimum, 3 separate occasions with the NO X teams, and if you're lucky only one more time because you got to play two separate classes in the 'once with each team' game) PLUS another assuming that the 'getting the S' and 'getting the A' missions unlock at the same time AND getting an S satisfies getting the A mission. If not its a whopping 8 fucking times with this shit mode, assuming 100% winrate
EDIT: Also for my own clarification when it says you can trade the tokens for a champ permanent that is a guaranteed new champ right? Like it can't give you a permanent for a champ you already own, or is that exclusive to when you reroll the champ shards?
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Maybe the target audience are those mysterious people who spend entire days playing co-op vs AI while roleplaying in the chat?
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I thought you guys were exaggerating but once was enough holy shit
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I actually found the single time I tried pretty fun, but not fun enough to play more than a single game of it. The missions are fucking retarded.
EDIT: Just learned Maokai can enter walls if he W Kayn. Rito I love your coding. Now I just wonder what happens if Kayn ults someone while Maokai is W traveling and Tahm Kench ults the victim away.
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it's pretty obvious who it was targeted at, e-girls and their friends. Literally girls I havent seen on in months all magically reappeared today for this shit
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I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
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Maybe I am even more of a cretin than you all, but I dont even understand the point. It seems like there are various modes, which end up being like a retarded version of the Burning Crusade version of Mount Hyjal (raid). By the way, no one liked Mt. Hyjal, except for the fact that it was undertuned until you got to Archimonde.
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That doesn't seem quite clear.
By real skills I mean being able to play the game properly, which granted is pretty subjective. Things like seeing the enemy jungler top lane and mid and bot are pushed in, so as jungle Elise taking dragon might be a good idea. Or even as simple as asking bot lane to place a ward in the bot lane brush so you can TP behind enemy. Or watching the minimap... Very obvious in retrospect, but I don't think I've seen a bot lane TP engage in a month.
I thought my point made sense. You can play any champion to Diamond, the meta is only moderately relevant for everything below there, all that matters is you as a player.
Now I'm going to try out the game mode for myself, because people are bashing it here...
Kill me, this game is terrible.
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On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
That's a bit unfair. War3 custom maps were better done than majority of games.
Anyway yea I agree with you though, the best bit about Hero defense maps were how crazy insane they were. Got awesome weird OP abilities with crazy items and spawns.
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I agree it's not very fun to play beyond the first game. It's really frustrating for me and my friends to play the glorified skin showcase upwards of 10 times to get everyone on the same missions and actually win
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On PBE
"Living Forge (P) masterwork upgrades now become available once Ornn reaches level 13."
Hahahhahahahahahhaha. Love they have to directly prevent stupid people from rushing the upgraded items.
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On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 09 2017 20:17 lilwisper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play. Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic.
Only if you play the bitch mode. I don't think it happens in Onslaught.
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On September 10 2017 11:39 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 20:17 lilwisper wrote:On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play. Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic. Only if you play the bitch mode. I don't think it happens in Onslaught.
They wouldn't be able to get away with it. Everyone would lose too quickly
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On September 10 2017 11:39 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 20:17 lilwisper wrote:On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play. Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic. Only if you play the bitch mode. I don't think it happens in Onslaught.
I know, but it's still shitty to start you off with an uncontrollable death just to show a mechanic. At the very least they shouldn't make it count towards your total.
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Either way the mode is fucking terrible.
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On September 12 2017 06:05 Nemireck wrote:
Either way the mode is fucking terrible.
Like the others were saying if they put some more gameplay thought like some of the well known WC3 mods have, it would be a pretty fun game. The visuals are there and there are hints of some good ideas.
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When diving someone in particular, he doesn't get the %damage increase from Poppy's ult.
When trying to ignore other people, he can't ult the support/cc bot like she did, especially since the zone moves with him anyway.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Nothing like old Poppy ult, which negated all damage AND cc from everybody else. The CC immunity was really the most broken part. Every 500 games or so you'd run into a Poppy main and you'd wonder how this champion wasn't picked every game. She'd ult your ADC and that was it - nothing the rest of the team can do as she strolls through your team, one-shots the ADC, and walks away taking 0 damage.
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I still don't think old poppy ult was much of a problem. The problem was Riot hated(and still does) nonstandard power curves, thus the fact she lost nearly all matchups pre-6 hard was an irritant, and that she couldn't do much until 2 items was a nonstarter.
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Make AP Poppy great again
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I don't even remember old Poppy's ul-*cue thousand yard stare*
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On September 12 2017 14:14 cLutZ wrote:
I still don't think old poppy ult was much of a problem. The problem was Riot hated(and still does) nonstandard power curves, thus the fact she lost nearly all matchups pre-6 hard was an irritant, and that she couldn't do much until 2 items was a nonstarter.
You can still kill a 6-items Tristana or win a teamfight against 6-items Karthus, you couldn't do anything against Poppy unless your team was full of shields and/or champions like Tahm Kench or Thresh, and that's not a healthy state for the game.
Even worse, a fed AD Poppy wouldn't be able to one-shot your carry as easily, but she'd ult a cc-less champion instead and start murdering the entire team 1v5.
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That is a natural consequence of her terrible other features?
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Too bad this wasn't in time for World's. I kinda want to see the pros play Shin Xin.
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It would have had to be months ago. Seems like Orn guy is disabled for worlds too for some odd reason.
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On September 13 2017 00:00 cLutZ wrote:
That is a natural consequence of her terrible other features?
That has nothing to do with non-standard power curves.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 13 2017 00:00 cLutZ wrote:
That is a natural consequence of her terrible other features?
??? Are you suggesting that there are divers in the game on which Poppy's old ult wouldn't be disgustingly OP? Imagine that ult on Jax, Aatrox, Pantheon, or Renekton.
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On September 13 2017 01:16 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:00 cLutZ wrote:
That is a natural consequence of her terrible other features? ??? Are you suggesting that there are divers in the game on which Poppy's old ult wouldn't be disgustingly OP? Imagine that ult on Jax, Aatrox, Pantheon, or Renekton.
Even though it would probably be OP, the old Poppy ult seems like a good fit for AAtrox's theme.
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On September 13 2017 01:16 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 00:00 cLutZ wrote:
That is a natural consequence of her terrible other features? ??? Are you suggesting that there are divers in the game on which Poppy's old ult wouldn't be disgustingly OP? Imagine that ult on Jax, Aatrox, Pantheon, or Renekton.
You'd obviously change the rest of their kit or numbers. Its not inherently an OP move, unless you can find me all those old Poppy v. Poppy blindpicks from OGN series.
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](https://puu.sh/xy5sB/b194c900bd.jpg)
