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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
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Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
The Yorick rework (?!) will go live this patch.
Patch 6.18: Live on Aug. 23rd, 2016
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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I like the recent thread titles :D
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Initial reactions to patch notes:
So as long as there's no more bugs with the star dragon, he should re-join the Worlds stage after the global competitive ban he got after the bug during the TSM vs. CLG series, and make pick/ban that much more complex for mid lane.
Ashe, Ekko, Gnar, Rek'Sai, Shen, Taliyah, and Vlad nerfs are minor and probably won't make them fall out of the 6.15-era meta.
Lissandra nerf is actually kind of noticeable, as she loses 162 HP at level 18, when she's already a squishy mage to play in the late game.
Lux buff is minor, doesn't help solve the issues with her mana costs. MF change might actually encourage lane swap and fast turret-taking comps at Worlds, but she then just becomes another relatively immobile ADC that doesn't stand out much other than for her ult.
Nocturne buff is probably strong enough to force people to blow flash when he ganks both pre and post-6.
Frozen Mallet change might actually be a slight buff in terms of build path, and considering this was meant mostly as a team fighting item and not a split pushing/dueling one, probably just stops Tank Yasuo from being a thing.
Needs to have more visual indicators of "immune to enemy damage" for stuff like Taric ult.
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Happy to see that there were no major changes in the patch that is going to be played at worlds unlike last year's juggernaut fiasco. Tank Yasuo and Gnar deserved that double slap on the wrist with those abilities being nerfed and the Fmallet change. Personally, I think that Vlad should have gotten a ult nerf as well, he just heals so damn much after getting it off in a teamfight
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On September 08 2016 04:35 MooMooMugi wrote:
Happy to see that there were no major changes in the patch that is going to be played at worlds unlike last year's juggernaut fiasco. Tank Yasuo and Gnar deserved that double slap on the wrist with those abilities being nerfed and the Fmallet change. Personally, I think that Vlad should have gotten a ult nerf as well, he just heals so damn much after getting it off in a teamfight
The balance team did a good job by not doing anything ayyyyy
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Not a bad set of changes considering it is the worlds patch. I just hope in postseason/preseason they rid us of Jihn. His playstyle in pro play is incredibly stale, it was stale like 3 games in.
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So sad they haven't nerfed Vlad into the ground yet. Cant think of a more boring champion to watch, play and play against. If only there were more item options to get grievous wounds from.
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I don't play her, but the Thalia nerf sounds big to me. She had 50% bonus vs minions and that's completely removed not just reduced. Seems like a huge blow to her wave clear.
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Yeah but she does everything too well
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it's a pretty big nerf I would say, but weather Taliya is strong or not will depend on what is being chosen against her.
(she will still be incredibly strong late game vs immobile and fall off vs mobile team comps)
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with that much mobility she needs to have weaker waveclear/shove so she cant just roam and wreck people
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Was hoping to see more buffs, I don't think these changes will be enough to give us better champion diversity at Worlds. I guess Riot really doesn't want to repeat the juggernaut patch circus.
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On September 08 2016 10:59 Sent. wrote:
Was hoping to see more buffs, I don't think these changes will be enough to give us better champion diversity at Worlds. I guess Riot really doesn't want to repeat the juggernaut patch circus.
You can't just generate diversity in this game given the current paradigm. You can stir it up with massive nerfs/buffs but that wont give you diversity, it will just give you confusion then a settled meta. Diversity is an offseason goal, probably focusing on the jungle and then taking a look at toplaners. IMO most of the "lack of diversity" stems from the jungle, which has a tiny champion pool, which then severely limits what can go top. ADC has some problems, but all the picks right now bring utility, which leads me to think its not an ADC issue so much as an overall meta pushing them towards that.
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The main thing with Taliyah's wave clear is that she could start the roaming as early as 6, thanks to the Q's bonus minion damage, sitting on Forbidden Chapter and a Doren's Ring. I can't think of any other mid laner - maybe TP Lissandra or TP Twisted Fate - that could execute a similar roam (shove in wave, gank top/bot, make it back to mid for CS) and be as deadly as Taliyah was prior to 6.18's nerfs.
Now it'll happen level 7-9 after her second back to pick up Morellos, which is in-line with most prior mid laner mages who could roam.
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Isn't Taliyah the only champ that could clear a ranged minion wave with just one Q alone? That was broken AF
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On September 08 2016 15:28 MooMooMugi wrote:
Isn't Taliyah the only champ that could clear a ranged minion wave with just one Q alone? That was broken AF
TF should be able to still & so should ziggs. both of them can't do it from level 1 though
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The level one thing was the broken part , you could get first 2 while bouncing the wave
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On September 09 2016 02:56 Slusher wrote:
The level one thing was the broken part , you could get first 2 while bouncing the wave
& kill enemy small wraiths
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On September 09 2016 03:20 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 02:56 Slusher wrote:
The level one thing was the broken part , you could get first 2 while bouncing the wave & kill enemy small wraiths
and then get first blooded by the enemy team b/c predictable :'>
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On September 08 2016 11:26 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 10:59 Sent. wrote:
Was hoping to see more buffs, I don't think these changes will be enough to give us better champion diversity at Worlds. I guess Riot really doesn't want to repeat the juggernaut patch circus. You can't just generate diversity in this game given the current paradigm. You can stir it up with massive nerfs/buffs but that wont give you diversity, it will just give you confusion then a settled meta. Diversity is an offseason goal, probably focusing on the jungle and then taking a look at toplaners. IMO most of the "lack of diversity" stems from the jungle, which has a tiny champion pool, which then severely limits what can go top. ADC has some problems, but all the picks right now bring utility, which leads me to think its not an ADC issue so much as an overall meta pushing them towards that.
Having such clearly defined roles and lanes is the main thing hindering champ diversity. Currently You have a lot of flavors of the same stuff, But you can't really do anything DIFFERENT you know? I guess that's what riot's goal is currently, since removing Lane swaps was a big focus for them, and then also hammering down any character that stands out in a unique way too much. The game is 1/1/1/2 with almost entirely rigid niches for each role. Hard to not j ust have BPA focused drafts when you can't do anything but ban then pick, and moving outside of standard stuff gets nerfed before you can use it to win a split/tournament.
On September 09 2016 03:20 Frolossus wrote:
& kill enemy small wraiths
I kinda miss the days of Cho mid and just clearing waves and wraiths you could still do it, but just some matchups he can't deal with anymore.
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So, apparently if you cut the wave against a lone yorick ulti, it becomes a pacifist that follows Yorick until yorick leads it to a new lane. Rather interesting behavior.
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On September 09 2016 04:40 Amui wrote:
So, apparently if you cut the wave against a lone yorick ulti, it becomes a pacifist that follows Yorick until yorick leads it to a new lane. Rather interesting behavior.
regardless yorick is monster. his wall gives your team a huge advantage when fighting in the jungle. he can be kited to a certain extent but he doesn't really need to dive the back line because he can shred tanks with his massives amount of healh percent type damges. not to mention he duos barons and solos drags like nobodys business. and once his spilt push is set up it rolls down turrets very fast.
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I had high hopes for Baker Pantheon.. it's kind of meh
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Sashimi Akali makes up for everything.
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On September 08 2016 11:26 cLutZ wrote:
ADC has some problems, but all the picks right now bring utility, which leads me to think its not an ADC issue so much as an overall meta pushing them towards that.
I have been known to be wrong from time to time, but...
Have they not been trying to rein in ADC DPS output since like, Season 3? I would think the natural response to that reduction in damage over time would be finding more utility within the role to increase the amount of time you (or your team) have to deal damage, being that you can't really 2-shot a squishy like you used to as ADC (takes like... 4-5 shots now).
I understand ADCs are still pouring out damage, it's just not as fast as it used to be, ergo, find utility to buy the time needed to output that damage.
Thoughts?
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On September 09 2016 03:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
Having such clearly defined roles and lanes is the main thing hindering champ diversity. Currently You have a lot of flavors of the same stuff, But you can't really do anything DIFFERENT you know? I guess that's what riot's goal is currently, since removing Lane swaps was a big focus for them, and then also hammering down any character that stands out in a unique way too much. The game is 1/1/1/2 with almost entirely rigid niches for each role. Hard to not j ust have BPA focused drafts when you can't do anything but ban then pick, and moving outside of standard stuff gets nerfed before you can use it to win a split/tournament.
I know you've been harping on this for years, and you're probably right.
Most people will probably argue back that the meta finds itself and blah blah blah, but Riot pretty CLEARLY enforces the meta that they want.
Whether or not it's a good thing depends on perspective. If you're looking for a game that's more-easily understood by spectators and newcomers, a rigid meta is a great thing because you can learn the game quicker and become invested faster.
On the flip side, if you're looking for champion and strategy diversity, you need a more open and fluid game, which makes the game more confusing to those who aren't already familiar with it, but more exciting for the experienced viewer/player. Even then, a dominate strategy with a small selection of dominate champions will rise to the top.
Somewhere, the perfect balance exists. Ideally, they could just make more champions/roles viable within their rigid positions, but we all know that no matter what changes are made, approximately 20-30 champions will dominate the most effective team compositions so long as there is more limited strategic viability. And I'm not certain you can fix that without making the game confusing to new players/viewers, or creating binary strategic options that result in "Win by 25minutes or Lose" cheese options.
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Riot champion design also forces you into the lux/Xerath/Ziggs situation for most roles. It becomes a numbers game because stuff like aura strays don't exist and things like push strats don't work when one lane has significantly weaker towers in the early game
First brick alone makes just picking the hero with the best base damage a hard to argue strat
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On September 10 2016 00:11 Jek wrote:
Sashimi Akali makes up for everything.
It's nitpicky but I wished they kept both weapons the same. What I mean is her whole deal is about symmetry if I am not mistaken right? They should have made it both knives or both crab claws.
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On September 10 2016 00:29 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 03:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
Having such clearly defined roles and lanes is the main thing hindering champ diversity. Currently You have a lot of flavors of the same stuff, But you can't really do anything DIFFERENT you know? I guess that's what riot's goal is currently, since removing Lane swaps was a big focus for them, and then also hammering down any character that stands out in a unique way too much. The game is 1/1/1/2 with almost entirely rigid niches for each role. Hard to not j ust have BPA focused drafts when you can't do anything but ban then pick, and moving outside of standard stuff gets nerfed before you can use it to win a split/tournament.
I know you've been harping on this for years, and you're probably right. Most people will probably argue back that the meta finds itself and blah blah blah, but Riot pretty CLEARLY enforces the meta that they want. Whether or not it's a good thing depends on perspective. If you're looking for a game that's more-easily understood by spectators and newcomers, a rigid meta is a great thing because you can learn the game quicker and become invested faster. On the flip side, if you're looking for champion and strategy diversity, you need a more open and fluid game, which makes the game more confusing to those who aren't already familiar with it, but more exciting for the experienced viewer/player. Even then, a dominate strategy with a small selection of dominate champions will rise to the top. Somewhere, the perfect balance exists. Ideally, they could just make more champions/roles viable within their rigid positions, but we all know that no matter what changes are made, approximately 20-30 champions will dominate the most effective team compositions so long as there is more limited strategic viability. And I'm not certain you can fix that without making the game confusing to new players/viewers, or creating binary strategic options that result in "Win by 25minutes or Lose" cheese options.
I don't think that "standard lanes" and "standard meta" must necessarily result in a meta that is as stagnant and focused on such a small pool of champions as the current one. In many ways the old "optional laneswap" meta was even more punishing to champion pools. The problem for each lane is that powercurves are so similar now that you do have the Ziggs/Lux/Xerath situation of slusher. But we also have so many other requirements for nearly every role.
Waveclear is super important midlane, toplaners need to work with TP and need to be able to survive Gragas/RekSai ganks (and used to need to be able to survive on starvation wages during laneswaps). Junglers need to be able to survive the jungle, and survive nidalee/reksai invades. ADCs all do the same damage (except for kog) because a Vayne autoing and tumbling through a fight is an illusion that can never happen anymore, so they need to bring something else (aka utility).
On September 10 2016 00:17 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 11:26 cLutZ wrote:
ADC has some problems, but all the picks right now bring utility, which leads me to think its not an ADC issue so much as an overall meta pushing them towards that. I have been known to be wrong from time to time, but... Have they not been trying to rein in ADC DPS output since like, Season 3? I would think the natural response to that reduction in damage over time would be finding more utility within the role to increase the amount of time you (or your team) have to deal damage, being that you can't really 2-shot a squishy like you used to as ADC (takes like... 4-5 shots now). I understand ADCs are still pouring out damage, it's just not as fast as it used to be, ergo, find utility to buy the time needed to output that damage. Thoughts?
IMO its that you actually can't auto as an ADC even if you are Cait or Trist. There are just so many divers that ADCs are always kiting.
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For my personal aesthetic Riot's art team has always lacked just a tiny bit of less is more. There are so many skins I've liked or almost liked that would have been a lot better if they just removed one or two elements. Pool party Ziggs being the prime example, look at Mattcom's original drawing the skin was based on vs. the final version and they just added a ton of stuff that made it worse.
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So who do you folks like in one for alls?
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On September 10 2016 05:31 General_Winter wrote:
So who do you folks like in one for alls?
Shen while you listen to "You'll never walk alone" or Nocturne for the 20 second Darknesssss.
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On September 10 2016 05:53 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 05:31 General_Winter wrote:
So who do you folks like in one for alls? Shen while you listen to "You'll never walk alone" or Nocturne for the 20 second Darknesssss.
I like Zac with TP and you guarantee the revive by TPing to a blob.
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lol yorick feels like nasus at times
seems pretty strong after playing a few games with him. not the most exciting tho.
I love his W. they should make him cost more mana though. as long as you don't spam W, you can pretty much spam everything else. I spam E just for %hp poke lol.
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why cait traps work under oracle? (and I almost certain jinx too)
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On September 10 2016 17:32 M2 wrote:
why cait traps work under oracle? (and I almost certain jinx too)
probably because they are untargetable, which makes them immune to the disabling effect of oracle.
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actually my bad, just re-read the tool tip, it says: disable invisible traps, not just traps
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they are right there but I step on them regularly xDD, feels bad 
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there is something anti-league like that cait can instantly lock some small passages with traps and there is nothing you can do about it, but step on them or go through another passage
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On September 10 2016 21:34 M2 wrote:
there is something anti-league like that cait can instantly lock some small passages with traps and there is nothing you can do about it, but step on them or go through another passage
Dunno. Something that dramatically punishes immobile champs but greatly rewarding mobile ones is very much a League thing to do.
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On September 10 2016 22:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 21:34 M2 wrote:
there is something anti-league like that cait can instantly lock some small passages with traps and there is nothing you can do about it, but step on them or go through another passage Dunno. Something that dramatically punishes immobile champs but greatly rewarding mobile ones is very much a League thing to do.
It's different because it still punishes those with dashes/jumps etc, unless immune to CC. Only the ones with blinks are unaffected, unless you blow flash.
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On September 10 2016 21:34 M2 wrote:
there is something anti-league like that cait can instantly lock some small passages with traps and there is nothing you can do about it, but step on them or go through another passage
Eh, she has to be close to effectively control the space, and being able to do that is an important aspect of her kit.
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in korea people seem to think the only way to get a helper user banned is to publicly analyse a replay of the user and get masses of people to conclude that the player is indeed using 3rd party programs.
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i've been accused of scripting quite a few times on a pretty big variety of champions, usually when i godhand on blitz. never gotten a warning let alone a ban before. i think the ones that get in trouble are obvious ones like with cass.
how do you even script on swain o_o
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On September 12 2016 23:50 evilfatsh1t wrote:
in korea people seem to think the only way to get a helper user banned is to publicly analyse a replay of the user and get masses of people to conclude that the player is indeed using 3rd party programs.
Riot korea is real bad at handling it. from what scarra has said they get banned a bit faster on NA. and i hear it's more similar to korea in EUW. But again that's just pro hearsay rather than facts.
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On September 13 2016 00:24 JimmiC wrote:
I don't think u can, I laughed maybe cuase I hit my snares, but not all of them lol.
It's too bad riot does not have a good system of rooting it out. Because those that do are assholes and need to be banned and it gives another excuse for losers on why they lost instead of there own play/ attitudes.
I bet it is hard to point it out unless it was a super obvious script. All the more reason to have replays.
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On September 13 2016 00:56 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 23:50 evilfatsh1t wrote:
in korea people seem to think the only way to get a helper user banned is to publicly analyse a replay of the user and get masses of people to conclude that the player is indeed using 3rd party programs. Riot korea is real bad at handling it. from what scarra has said they get banned a bit faster on NA. and i hear it's more similar to korea in EUW. But again that's just pro hearsay rather than facts.
It took veryyyy long in my experience. Played with quite a few kalista/ryze/cass scripters that spent weeks playing until they got banned. Multiple have reached challenger and stayed there for at least a week until they got banned.
Riot just don't really give a shit since there isn't that much complaining about it.
Also no it isn't hard at all to find. For most scripters it takes exactly 30 seconds looking at their account to notice if they are scripting.
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On September 14 2016 06:06 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2016 00:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 12 2016 23:50 evilfatsh1t wrote:
in korea people seem to think the only way to get a helper user banned is to publicly analyse a replay of the user and get masses of people to conclude that the player is indeed using 3rd party programs. Riot korea is real bad at handling it. from what scarra has said they get banned a bit faster on NA. and i hear it's more similar to korea in EUW. But again that's just pro hearsay rather than facts. It took veryyyy long in my experience. Played with quite a few kalista/ryze/cass scripters that spent weeks playing until they got banned. Multiple have reached challenger and stayed there for at least a week until they got banned. Riot just don't really give a shit since there isn't that much complaining about it. Also no it isn't hard at all to find. For most scripters it takes exactly 30 seconds looking at their account to notice if they are scripting.
You mean those 100000APM 90% winrate Kog'Maw only players might be scripting? The drifting autos do look fun tho.
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I feel like Cass scripts have been around for ages and they're super easy to spot too...
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anyone else get a mystery gift from riot? first time i got one and i have no idea why
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u get a mystery gift if u already have riot kayle
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United States37500 Posts
mfw summoner icons count as mystery gift.
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On September 15 2016 11:22 JimmiC wrote:
Riot is better off not giving away free shit, very few appreciate it most complain is not enough free shit.
The most vocal people complain that it isn't enough free stuff.
The rest of us take it and are pretty happy to have it.
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I saw the mystery gift box pop up but I didn't see what I got. Is there any way to check what came in?
Edit: Ok I found it in the gift giving section of the store. So far I have the poro icon but nothing else.
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I was honestly just confused because I didn't even know I didn't have Volibear. Its not like I dont have the IP to get him whenever, I just literally never thought to do it.
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I ended up getting a summoner icon.
Can't say I'm particularly impressed.
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On September 16 2016 07:03 Amui wrote:
I ended up getting a summoner icon.
Can't say I'm particularly impressed.
everyone should have gotten the icon + riot kayle.
mystery gift is only if you have riot kayle already
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How do you see what you got if you already had Riot Kayle?
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Not to shit on a free gift, but I find it odd that they chose riot Kayle for an anniversary skin giveaway, when anyone who's been with them the whole way was already given Kayle + a skin.
weird choice to me
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On September 17 2016 00:23 Slusher wrote:
Not to shit on a free gift, but I find it odd that they chose riot Kayle for an anniversary skin giveaway, when anyone who's been with them the whole way was already given Kayle + a skin.
weird choice to me
It's because kayle has been played top mid jungle and support, and is cheap AF.
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I just think nobody thought about it.
like the uncaring husband who gets his wife the same exact kitchen utensil on their 10th anniversary as their first.
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On September 16 2016 23:19 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 07:03 Amui wrote:
I ended up getting a summoner icon.
Can't say I'm particularly impressed. everyone should have gotten the icon + riot kayle. mystery gift is only if you have riot kayle already
That's the thing, I got the icon and I saw that the mystery gift was delivered, but I didn't see any indication of what I got, plus it is not showing up on my gifts section.
Edit: Just to update, I learned that the gifts can come separately from each other. If after next weekend comes and you don't have it, you can put in a Riot ticket.
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United States11393 Posts
Runaans vayne is love.
With recent q buffs, BF -> runaans -> IE and then whatever depending on game feels soooooooo good. Runaans has a lot of synergy with warlords as you heal off of the bolts and the waveclear is more constant than shiv too. Shiv just offers more burst. The stats itself on runaans arent to be underestimated either. Yeah, the bolts don't spread her W but that's fine. It helps her get to midgame in a much better state thanks to the sustain and waveclear it offers. Also, the build path on runaans is really nice too.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class.
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On September 20 2016 03:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class.
The build path is pretty friendly too. A mage would be getting large rod anyways and the ruby crystal and Amp Tome are very cheap starting items.
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On September 20 2016 03:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class.
yeah unless you're an assassin/ someone who can kill someone with one combo (basically want to stack pure deeps) rylai's is the best option. i agree the item is just too efficient.
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if auto filled is enabled in ranked in what world should dynamic q with teams of 3 ppl be enabled and expect balanced games. riots logic as good as ever
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On September 20 2016 04:54 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 03:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class. yeah unless you're an assassin/ someone who can kill someone with one combo (basically want to stack pure deeps) rylai's is the best option. i agree the item is just too efficient.
rylais still really good on some assassins
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On September 20 2016 05:16 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2016 04:54 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 20 2016 03:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class. yeah unless you're an assassin/ someone who can kill someone with one combo (basically want to stack pure deeps) rylai's is the best option. i agree the item is just too efficient. rylais still really good on some assassins
when i think assassins i think leblanc... rylai's makes sense on ahri who is kind of an assassin i guess... and kat... and ekko... crap. :/
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On September 20 2016 03:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Recent discussion about how Oriannas are starting to build Rylai's second after Morellonomicon is basically proof of how busted Rylai's Crystal Scepter is. In no world should Oriannas be building an early Rylai's.
Worse, it's exactly against the whole spirit of the AP itemization rework, which, if you'll remember, was all about carving out distinct identities for items, instead of having Athene's and Zhonya's be both offensive AND defensive AND utility-oriented items.
Rylai's, though, has basically no tradeoffs. Here, take the second most AP on any item in the game. Then get 80% of the HP of Randuin's / Sunfire. Oh, also have insane slow on all of your abilities. Everything it does is basically best-in-class.
Yes Rylais is too good, but AP itemization is, IMO, screwed because Deathcap isn't the "core" of AP anymore. Back in the day everyone got their first item (Athenes, Tear, Morello, or Rod depending on the time and champ) then you needed DC, basically for everyone to do your job. I think item flexibility is a good goal, but not a good practice in a game with so little powercurve diversity.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
AP itemization is always going to be funky so long as Deathcap and Void Staff exist. But I think the current state of AP itemization, Rylai's aside, is not bad. A lot of AP champions do forgo Deathcap and Void Staff: Diana is probably the best example of how her various itemization paths allow her to be played differently depending on which utility options she prefers. But Orianna is about the most cookie-cutter "MOAR AP PLZ" champion there is, which is why Rylai's being so good on her is such junk.
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Yeah. It kind of has a mixed identity. Champs like sol need it for tankyness and to apply that on magic hit slow. For sol at least the power is in te slow, so I would hope any nerfs are to its ap or HP rather than the slow which is really needed for some champs.
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Meh. Sol is just a boring, less skillful Karthus. Who, also now even builds this item.
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Point being is that no AP item that is based around durability and utility should have the second(?) most AP on it. It's why I used to despise Zhonya's.
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On September 21 2016 05:11 Gahlo wrote:
Point being is that no AP item that is based around durability and utility should have the second(?) most AP on it. It's why I used to despise Zhonya's.
the problem with this is that if they don't give enough AP people don't buy them
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT
