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On May 02 2016 08:53 Ketara wrote:
I don't think I like League anymore.
I keep trying to jungle the way that I used to, and it's like the jungle feels so much stronger, I have to clear perfectly to not get executed by jungle camps, one tiny little thing fucks it up and destroys my entire game.
I don't like how they split Machete into two items. And I don't like how one of them is clearly better than the other.
I've played like 10 Sejuani games now and gotten executed by jungle mobs in my first clear in I think three of them.
If you're going Machete on Sejuani, you're doing it wrong.
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well I just got through a no leash 6 camp clear fine so you probably just have the wrong set up
with a leash you definitely should be finishing the clear with refillable and at least half hp with minimal micro
post your setup if you really can't do a full clear, there is something wrong for sure
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Yeah, I just did a gromp start full clear of the jungle, ended with like 200 HP. If you were to do a Golem start you'd likely finish with probably 200 more HP again.
I think you could Gromp>Blue>Wolves>Gank very easily on Sej. Feels like a very flexible clear to me.
Do you mind letting us know what your Runes/Masteries are? I was running AS Reds, AS Quints, Flat Armor Yellows, 6x Flat CDR Blues, and then Scaling Blues. Gives you like 30% AS, 9 armor, and 5% CDR.
For Masteries you should be fine as long as you have Savagery and Tough Skin. Not sure what you're doing wrong, but it should be much less painful. You want Strength of Ages for sure.
I started Talisman + 3 Pot.
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On April 30 2016 21:33 Slayer91 wrote:
karma is garbage why would you ban
Lolwut, Karma is super good support right now, although not ban worthy. Frustrating to lane against, good peel, and a reliable stun for certain situations (also good single player disengage). Tons of people just don't know how to play her.
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found the karma player
low winrate, (18/26 on champ.gg, thresh 19th but he's hard to play+highly played) insistence everyone else is wrong, exaggeration of strengths with no comparison to other supports. compare peel/stun/frustrating to lane against with thresh who's an "average" support, he's better at all those things.
karma is low played which means mostly played by enthusiasts with the same winrate as thresh which is played by anyone who gets stuck with support and is the most played
her winrate is significantly worse than sona who nobody thinks is good
its interesting to investigate the "people don't know how to play her"
seems theres reasonable evidence. People who go QWQE have 54% winrate and people who spec thunderlords+offensive tree have a 61% winrate. People who go full ap runes with hp yellows have a higher winrate, but locket ardent censer after sightstone is highest winrate build with only 51%
Someone like jax has a bigger disparity, people going grasp and flat resist runes like 44% winrate up to 57% if they get scaling resists and fervour
winrate analysis seems flaky though, Q first amumu with E>W>Q max (E>Q>W is better) is the highest maxing winrate too
maybe too much low elo analysis from champ.gg
op.gg seems more reliable, actually sees full as reds/quints on irelia as the highest winrate
highest winrates for karma seem to be involve full AP builds from support
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Idk about ban worthy but karma mid is pretty good right now
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karma mid might be good seems like you can waveclear with RQ and roam or somtehing
i think faker plays it
interestingly in kr and euw karma has a 44/48% winrate on support and much worse on solos, and in na its 52% on support. But in all cases winrate is 60%+ on people maxing Q>E>W (30-40% of players)
which is odd because IIRC the guy saying people don't know how to play karma advocates E max which oddly seems to be more popular since I can't imagine anyone maxes anything but W last.
that said build and skill analysis is so weird looking at amumu all the listed skill orders which covered just about everything were all 60% wirnate but his winrate was 52%
unless 40% of people max Q first and lose every game or something
dont understand
I'd take any winrate analysis from builds/skill order with a grain of salt just because I don't know where all the bad skill orders with low winrates are coming from.
it might be that anyone who gets level 15 on X champ automatically has a 60% winrate lol
similarly if you get a bunch of items you probably have a high winrate since you didnt ff before you could buy anything
On May 02 2016 22:21 JimmiC wrote:
I think sona is good! Goto love playing her getting lichbain and than people all "wtf is that damage" You have to play her ap with thunderlords for the real Lol's though. One shoting adcs and squishy mages is great and unlike vel/brand you also provide utility with heal speed up and wicked ult.
She has a 59% winrate 175 games with the damage set up on champion.gg
you could do that with old sona with tank items though
was real beastly i abused in season 2
they made her more of an aura bot when she doesn't have the peel to do it effectively, pretty much should be played as an engaging burst support
old sona was so sick you bullied lane so hard and had good burst and teamfighting later and could build tank anyway
only jungle camp kept her winrate down
that said free locket on W is pretty nice i guess
edit: dunno what im talking about champ.gg is just combining all the op.gg's they still only look at plat+ im retarded
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Why would you max E first on Karma support, though? She gets weaker at level 6 compared to others so you'd want to apply pressure in lane before that, and a shield when you're not Janna (and still have low aa range) isn't going to allow that.
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i dont know why you would play any support except janna, soraka, taric, braum, bard but thats just me.
They outclass everyone in what they do best.
Blitzcrank/brand honorable mentions that fill a different but shitty niche
(talking solo queue here)
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 02 2016 08:53 Ketara wrote:
I don't think I like League anymore.
I keep trying to jungle the way that I used to, and it's like the jungle feels so much stronger, I have to clear perfectly to not get executed by jungle camps, one tiny little thing fucks it up and destroys my entire game.
I don't like how they split Machete into two items. And I don't like how one of them is clearly better than the other.
I've played like 10 Sejuani games now and gotten executed by jungle mobs in my first clear in I think three of them.
I think that you are messing something up pretty huge. In fact one of my no-leash jungle paths is Red (smite) -> Wraiths -> Scuttler -> Gromp (smite) -> Blue -> Wolves and I can do that with refillable pot + Talisman without requiring too much concentration. With a leash a full clear with refillable is pretty easy.
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thats inefficient as fuck compared to gromp-->golem which you should be able to do without any help on any viable jungler
scip jungle challenge shoulda shown that
the only reasonable alternatives involve an early gank or avoiding strong counter junglers like nidalee and shaco maybe kindred and you're banking on them losing time trying to find you
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On May 02 2016 23:17 VayneAuthority wrote:
i dont know why you would play any support except janna, soraka, taric, braum, bard but thats just me.
They outclass everyone in what they do best.
Blitzcrank/brand honorable mentions that fill a different but shitty niche
(talking solo queue here)
cuz you play w/e you feel like in le solo and skill matters more than champion choice. Having fun does help with winrate over a long period of tme as well.
On May 02 2016 23:38 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 08:53 Ketara wrote:
I don't think I like League anymore.
I keep trying to jungle the way that I used to, and it's like the jungle feels so much stronger, I have to clear perfectly to not get executed by jungle camps, one tiny little thing fucks it up and destroys my entire game.
I don't like how they split Machete into two items. And I don't like how one of them is clearly better than the other.
I've played like 10 Sejuani games now and gotten executed by jungle mobs in my first clear in I think three of them. I think that you are messing something up pretty huge. In fact one of my no-leash jungle paths is Red (smite) -> Wraiths -> Scuttler -> Gromp (smite) -> Blue -> Wolves and I can do that with refillable pot + Talisman without requiring too much concentration. With a leash a full clear with refillable is pretty easy.
That path is absolute shit.
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I feel like blitz is scary as fuck if you win lane and have strong waveclear mid
just waveclear and hook pattern it's gonna hit eventually
blitz is general feels like you can carry hard at all points of the game if you're good with hooks but i rarely see it
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 03 2016 00:28 Slayer91 wrote:
thats inefficient as fuck compared to gromp-->golem which you should be able to do without any help on any viable jungler
scip jungle challenge shoulda shown that
the only reasonable alternatives involve an early gank or avoiding strong counter junglers like nidalee and shaco maybe kindred and you're banking on them losing time trying to find you
I should clarify. It's a counterjungle path for a blue jungler: enemy red, enemy wraiths, scuttle, gromp, blue, wolves. It's leashless and really kills a red jungler that's going Gromp -> Blue -> Red -> gank.
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On May 03 2016 00:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2016 00:28 Slayer91 wrote:
thats inefficient as fuck compared to gromp-->golem which you should be able to do without any help on any viable jungler
scip jungle challenge shoulda shown that
the only reasonable alternatives involve an early gank or avoiding strong counter junglers like nidalee and shaco maybe kindred and you're banking on them losing time trying to find you I should clarify. It's a counterjungle path from blue side - enemy red, enemy wraiths, scuttle, gromp, blue, wolves. It's leashless and really kills a Gromp -> Blue -> Red -> gank path.
Do people not cover/ward wtf?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Half the time their top laner is at tribush or their tower, so that's just a free buff.
The other half of the time, if you leave base and rush immediately to their red, you'll either beat them there or get there around the same time. In either case, if they do show up, you can just disengage and walk away because you can't get surrounded and trapped like you can if you invade bot side blue jungle.
It's (almost) a no-risk play, simply because it's very rare for red team to send more than 2 people to top side red jungle.
EDIT: If you have a very slow jungler, you might not have time for wraiths if the other jungler is fast. That sucks because the point of doing wraiths is that you will be catching scuttler right as it spawns. Combine that with a ward around red, and now the enemy jungler is level 2, in vision, with only Krugs to take and has no feasible gank if your top laner isn't braindead.
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if they start red and do golems with a leash and catch you at red then what
if they start blue and mid covers wraiths entrance then what
i say start red but nobody starts red they start golems with a leash
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The chance that a) a red-side jungler starts Krugs b) I don't see them there and c) finishes Krugs with such a strong leash that he shows up at his red before I can finish it is basically non-existent. When was the last time you can remember a red-side jungler that started Krugs?
Also, I don't know what you mean by "if they start blue and mid covers wraiths entrance". If either mid or top actually spots me before the camps spawn, I just walk away and do my own camps. And after minions arrive, no mid laner is going to randomly leave lane to check their wraiths.
There's an extra benefit to this invade, which is that the enemy's buffs are both going to respawn at the same time. This means that if you have a little bit of vision on where the jungler is around 6:xx, you can make an educated guess as to where he'll be and either a) invade and kill him with your mid laner or b) take another free buff.
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i mean what elo are we talking here? The top laner usually leashes for your jungler at any respectable elo so we need some context here.
It would be very stupid to attempt that in my opinion. Bot lane not taking a camp lvl 1 is very rare/puts you at big disadvantage.
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EPT
