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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 03 2015 21:48 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:12 krndandaman wrote:On July 03 2015 20:03 Ansibled wrote:
If CLG picks up Meteos they will have really cornered the market on overrated NA players. don't really think 'overrated' is the term to describe meteos. it was clear when he was actually really good and when he was falling off. for the most part, his team succeeded and failed according to his performances so he wasn't really overrated or underrated. He was way overrated when C9 had success right after they got into the LCS and people attributed it solely to his skill when how ahead he was of other junglers had the farm allocation at its core (Balls and Hai were often 20+ cs behind their opponents even without laneswaps because Meteos would farm a lot, and tax heavily whenever he ganked, hence how rich he was and his ability to beat the enemy jungler in duels and counterganks).
No, you're wrong, at least in the standard lanes games I watched his exp and gold advantage came predominantly from accurate jungle paths and ganking. He was the best jungler in the west, no contest. In laneswaps he was ahead simply because entire C9 was 1 meta ahead of everyone else when it came to laneswaps at the time.
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In Season 3 NA was so devoid of competition that people overvalue C9's domination, it's doubtful they would have placed top 4 in Europe that season. They might have beat EG, but not LD/Gambit/Fnatic. In 2013, Diamond was the best Western jungler.
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Diamond is the most overrated player in the west.Yea he was a god at some point but people still calling him a top tier jungler when he has one amazing game followed by 7 godawful games is stupid.This goes for pretty much most of s4 and this season.
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i would have thought that they cut top or support next but not jungle.
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On July 03 2015 22:12 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 22:03 Numy wrote:
Meteos was never "clearly the best jungler in the West", he was clearly the best jungle in North America and one of the best junglers in the West. Don't think I've seen people claiming that he was the best in the West.
Really? I have seen tons of people claiming that. Also I was among them.
Maybe I missed them. C9 played like 1 international tournament(2? I can't recall) when they were crushing NA so find it hard to evaluate any one player as "best in the West" at the time. He completely crushed any jungler in NA while C9 were just so far ahead of anyone tactically but I don't really see how you can judge his play vs NA teams and then extrapolate that as "best in west". Their series against Fnatic at Worlds didn't look anywhere near as good as he was prior to that. Think that was largely due to the discrepancy in jungle style and the fact that C9 weren't able to just get huge leads through being ahead in tactics.
On July 03 2015 22:14 nafta wrote:
Diamond is the most overrated player in the west.Yea he was a god at some point but people still calling him a top tier jungler when he has one amazing game followed by 7 godawful games is stupid.This goes for pretty much most of s4 and this season.
Talking S3 here though when he was still pretty good, not Godly like in S2 but not as awful as he has been since then.
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The way Sneaky made it sound on stream, it was less the team cutting Meteos and more Meteos deciding to leave, at least temporarily.
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Meteos is still best jungler in west. Just wait till he joins a new team where he dont have to call shots
I know that CLG not going to sign him because it would be logical. Soo Reginald better not miss Meteos, he is superior to Santorin in every aspect of game.
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I don't see why CLG would want Meteos, they already have a world-caliber jungler in Xmithie
[/sarcasm]
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Meteos on CLG would be a massive upgrade. Meteos is a very cerebral player.... Xmithie is..... Xmithie.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is even better than CW getting away with not paying their players with 2 different rosters.
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This is an interesting move - although if this doesn't help the team I feel as though this could lead them in fighting for their space in the LCS
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All I remember is Cloud9 getting shit on by EU teams when they went international while Meteos did nothing except for 1 game he carried on Nocturne. He outfarmed every jungler but his actual game impact was far lower in those games. His dominance only came from shitting the NA scene which at the time was pretty inferior. The only real threat in NA were Vulcun who at the time could have 4-0ed C9 if they didn't channel Throwbargins. This was an NA region that still had BigfatLP/TheOddone jungling remember.
Look I'm not saying Meteos wasn't amazing, I think he was one of the best players in the west at the time. I just think saying he 100% was the best jungler when his team only fought 2 international teams both of which crushed them in in the majority of the games while he had largely little impact on the game is saying a bit too much. He was among the top but honestly noone was the "best jungler" at the time. They all had flaws and different approaches to the game, none really better than the other.
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So who would be the reasonable candidates for best western jungler S4 other than Meteos? Cyanide, Dexter, Sven, Shook, IWD? Personally I think only Sven comes close.
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I'm talking about Season 3 when C9 exploded onto the scene and looked untouchable. It was Dexter/Diamond/Cyanide for EU and Xmithie/Meteos in NA. Season 4 Meteos wasn't as good as Season 3 Meteos tbh.
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United States37500 Posts
damn, I honestly didn't realize how important Hai was. l0l
RIP C9.
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He was a top-tier jungler in the West all three seasons. What's the point of further delineation when Riot's restricted international comparison so heavily?
Back on topic, this is a weird decision. I get the feeling C9 has no idea what to do and is throwing plays out until something works or poor Hai's hands give out.
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On July 03 2015 23:16 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 23:01 Numy wrote:
All I remember is Cloud9 getting shit on by EU teams when they went international while Meteos did nothing except for 1 game he carried on Nocturne. He outfarmed every jungler but his actual game impact was far lower in those games. His dominance only came from shitting the NA scene which at the time was pretty inferior. The only real threat in NA were Vulcun who at the time could have 4-0ed C9 if they didn't channel Throwbargins. This was an NA region that still had BigfatLP/TheOddone jungling remember.
Look I'm not saying Meteos wasn't amazing, I think he was one of the best players in the west at the time. I just think saying he 100% was the best jungler when his team only fought 2 international teams both of which crushed them in in the majority of the games while he had largely little impact on the game is saying a bit too much. He was among the top but honestly noone was the "best jungler" at the time. They all had flaws and different approaches to the game, none really better than the other. ? his only 'bad' series was IEM vs gambit. he played fine at worlds vs fnatic. xpeke kassadin and game 3 sneaky/lemon firstblood to invade into tilt was what lost them the series. meteos played it pretty damn well given the situation and no one had concerns about meteos after that series. mostly lemon/sneaky for their tilt and inconsitency. I still remember LR blowing up about the 2. I don't recall anyone worried about meteos' play lol. he had pretty good performances at other internationals anyways. other IEMs/all-stars/BOTA/etc. not like people were saying dandy was shit just because his team failed at worlds. so I don't see why we would call meteos overrated. even other players recognized meteos was the player to look out for from the west. if you recall the player interviews where they ask about players from other regions/NA, so many mention meteos as the player the look out for.he deservedly had his reputation for best western jungler at the time and to say he was overrated is just captain hindsight speaking from the knowledge we have of s4/s5.
Could be my impression from S4/S5 has just clouded my memory of S3.
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On July 03 2015 23:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
damn, I honestly didn't realize how important Hai was. l0l
RIP C9.
same, maybe not "realize" but I certainly underrated his role and have no problem admitting that I was among the "bench Hai" camp.
I still think it's ridiculous that the guy never bothered to learn any zone ap mages when they were meta and at any point of his career had a champion pool or max 3 but to be honest it was hard to see just how crucial his shotcalling was to c9 because all we have is those sounds of the game/Mic check snippets and the people that may have had access to whole voicecomps only came out after his retirement to say that his shotcalling was world class.
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EPT
