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CLG Doublelift – Need for Change

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ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
April 13 2015 21:45 GMT
#1



This was supposed to be the "Golden Age." CLG entered the split, as they have before, flying on the wings of hope. With CLG re-energized at every position, having the sharpest early game in the NA LCS, fans finally dared to hope that maybe, just maybe, Yiliang "Doublelift" Peng and the rest of his team would earn the trophy that's eluded them for years. But things didn't go as planned. The weaknesses identified at the start of the split never went away, and as teams leveled up their game going into playoffs, CLG was left behind once again. The team finished a disappointing 5/6th after a crushing 3–0 defeat at the hands of Team Liquid and playoff nemesis Xpecial. CLG fans are back to where they started: wondering what it'll take to finally get it right.

I spoke to Doublelift at LCS on Sunday after the games, and he spoke very candidly about his personal feelings about his split, the failings of the Counter Logic Gaming organization, their problems as a team, and where they go from here.


First off, it's been a week since the games. How are you feeling; what's your mental state these days?

Feeling pretty bad still. It's really disappointing, you know, 'cause I think we had a pretty average split. A regular split. Even though we were tied for first and second place the entire time, it didn't feel like we were improving too much, and I was always really frustrated with that fact. When we lost at playoffs, I knew I didn't act quick enough, or there was some sort of failure within the organization. It was really obvious to me really quickly that we weren't improving enough, and again, it's just an entire several months of work that I put in – that everyone put in – that kinda went down the drain and didn't end in any good results. Still pretty frustrated, and trying to consider what kind of changes I need to make, or the team needs to make.


You say you weren't improving throughout the split, but right up until the end of the split you were up at the top of the rankings – a lot of people were ranking you as a top 2 team NA. What do you think you needed to have been improving on internally that you weren't able to get figured out?

Well, our ability to beat top teams was pretty abysmal. We were 0–2 TSM, 1–1 C9, 0–2 TL, 1–1 TiP; that's not a good winrate. Especially going 0–2 vs TSM and TL, is just really really bad. You come into the split really strong, and you're able to beat all the bottom teams and none of the top teams, and that's just really frustrating. Because in the end, you have to beat ALL of the teams to be first and make Worlds. So I would just say that it was really obvious to me at the time. I was like, “Why can't we beat these top teams?” There was some kind of failure going on with leadership, and changes need to be made, but they just weren't made quick enough. I think we got really really happy, like overly happy, with beating teams we should be expected to beat. In my opinion, that's like being congratulated for putting gas in your car, or eating breakfast, it's pretty normal. You should be able to beat these teams on a daily basis easily. If you want to be a top team that shouldn't be a surprise. That should be an expectation.


Going into this season, CLG really talked about how they wanted to have 5 players who all got along with each other and would be able to work through difficulties and not start to hate each other. What was the environment in the CLG practice house like once you guys started to struggle?

The environment's pretty good actually. I think we succeeded in that goal, in having 5 players who work well outside the game and are able to talk and sort out differences. Still, we're not all best-friends-holding-hands day-to-day but we can talk to each other pretty easily, and it seems like a positive environment. I think the change that also would've worked, other than doing that, would've been to get a coach. A coach is there to make sure your relationships are fine regardless of whether or not you can inherently get along with each other. We kinda doubled up on that, so now our team environment is very very positive, and we're all just trying to pump each other up.


With that great environment, why do you think you weren't able to fix those problems you'd identified throughout the split?

At the end of the day, improvement is all relative because every pro player in the world is improving. Whether you're in the Japan start-up league or in OGN, it really doesn't matter where you're from as a pro player: your job is to improve, so everyone is always improving. It's about the rate you're improving. You want to accelerate your improvement. So yeah, I saw some small improvements, but across the split people from the very beginning had highlighted that we have really poor team fighting and relied solely on getting a lead early so we don't have to team fight fairly when the game is even or when we're behind. That was a problem that persisted throughout the entire split we never actually fixed. I think that's pretty unacceptable for 8 or 9 weeks to pass by, that's like a two month span of time, and for our team fighting to only barely improve. Not only that, but there's a lot of problems – and I don't want to go too much into detail about or weaknesses as a team – but we definitely had a lot. Our only real strength came from our early game, and that was just because we picked up really good players who knew how to lane well. I don't think that's really considered a strength of the team as much as “Okay, we have pretty good players, they know how to win lane, that's good for us.” Team-oriented things that I think should be improved on, like working together, and being able to coordinate a play, and shotcalling, and leadership are things that I find to be the most important and that CLG has struggled with the most.


Who does all the shotcalling throughout the games?

Link and Aphro do pretty much all the shotcalling throughout a game.


Do you think spreading out shotcalling might help, or is that pretty solid?

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having one, or possibly two, shotcallers. I've done a lot of talking to people who are on wildly successful teams in their region and the best teams in the world like SKT and Samsung White, and these teams always have a primary shotcaller and supplementary shotcallers for when their primary shotcaller is at a lack of expertise or tilted, then the supplementary shotcallers can jump in and kickstart the primary one back up. The problem is we've had the same shotcallers for two years, and the way they interact with each other is a little bit inconsistent. That's why we have so much shotcalling and leadership issues, and we've always been really inconsistent at playoffs... technically we've been really consistent at playoffs, because we just always lose. That's definitely our big problem, the way that we function as a team fundamentally – the way we've built it up – is probably wrong.


In seeing that, I know Hotshot tweeted big changes were coming and you've alluded that you're considering big changes. I know you can't say anything here, but is a roster change on CLG likely going into the summer split?

I just know what Hotshot said is definitely true. I didn't see the tweet myself, but there definitely are gonna be big changes. I don't know if it's gonna be roster changes, or if it's gonna be management, organization, coaching changes or whatever it is, but there need to be big changes within the team because the way it's set up right now... it needs to be completely uprooted. Something needs to change about the way we think as people – as teammates – or... just anything. I've taken a working role on the team. If they want me to be a team player, I can be a team player. If they want me to be a selfish player, I can be a selfish player. But I'm not dealt a lot of responsibility, because it's shifted on other people. I'm totally fine with that – it's not like I'm power hungry and want leadership or anything like that. I just want something that works. And what we've been doing for a very long time just simply doesn't work.


From a managerial perspective, what would your ideal management environment be for CLG?

I would just say a lot of communication and oversight and a lot of feedback loops. Right now, there's no loop. It's a one-way street where the management doesn't exactly oversee the coaching, and the coaching just kinda trickles information into us. There's not really any circular loop that feeds back and then everyone can improve. The way it's set up right now... the reason our improvement stagnates so quickly is just there's no communication within the company. That's why I say the way it's set up is probably wrong.


So during your day-to-day it's you guys, you talk to Scarra, he talks to the leadership, and not that much information gets related back to you?

Well, day-to-day we just talk to each other as players. Sometimes we'll talk to Scarra and sometimes he'll talk to us, and that's pretty much where it ends.


So Scarra doesn't take as much of an active role in your day-to-day practice as some other coaches?

Yeah, I'd say Scarra definitely takes a more passive role. He's very good at understanding where you're coming from and absorbing information, but much less authoritative. He has a lot of authority on the team and when he tells me to do something, I just do it without questioning it too much. But he doesn't utilize that with an iron fist as much as some of the other coaches I see, who are just literally bossing people around. So I feel like there is a middle ground there, and Scarra has a lot of authority and has a lot of respect in the organization, but he is a little bit light fingered. He always wants to make sure first that we're happy with the way things are going, and I think overly so. Sometimes you have to do things you're uncomfortable or unhappy with for the good of everyone.


Going forward, you've been taking a lot of flak online about this stuff. You're somebody who's had an open relationship with the community for a very long time. Are you used to that at this point, or does it still get to you?

I think having a relationship with the community is almost never one way. You can't dip your hand in there and not get burned sometimes. I don't get affected when it comes down to my play too much, but in terms of my mental state it's pretty frustrating when any time we lose... I'm the face of CLG, so naturally I'll be blamed for a lot of or all of our failure, and I don't think it's fair, personally, because I'm biased and it's hard to be objective about that sort of thing. I just get really frustrated at the situation, because I put a lot of work in, y'know? And in the end we just couldn't pull it through.


I think right now most of the flak has been going onto Link and to Xmithie, especially after some of the Sejuani ults that he missed got replayed over and over again. Is it hard for the players in the team to avoid putting the blame on one person for the failures, and does that affect the relationship after a hard loss like that?

I think that whole concept is pretty overplayed. You don't have to be a genius to know that Xmithie missed those Sejuani ultis, and he himself knows that he did that. So it's maybe a little bit salting the wound, but he already knew he messed up, and Link already knew when he messed up. Everyone knows, for the most part, so it's not that bad, as much as people think. You don't do something as destructive as say “You missed all those Sejuani ultis, you suck.” It's like “We should practice it more, so you can be more consistent. How can I help you cover up your weaknesses?” It's more constructive than that.


In general, people were surprised that Link was brought back at first but he really showed people up at the beginning of the split when he was playing really well. But again this split, he petered out towards the end. Why do you think this pattern with Link, and CLG in general, tends to repeat?

I think Link is just a product of the environment, where it's really hard to improve. Some of it's on him, but most of it's on the way things are within the team. It's really difficult when you go into the split when you win everything to still think critically about your mistakes all the time. Sometimes you wanna just relish the moment. We're all guilty of that, and we need essentially a loop of people telling us that “No, winning is acceptable, it's not something that you should be proud of.” So it really just comes down to leadership.


The CLG fans are really die-hard passionate about this CLG team. Do you have any words of encouragement, anything you'd want to let those fans know going forward into the months before the summer split?

Nothing that you guys won't hear from me directly, but mostly just that there's gonna be a lot of changes like Hotshot said. And if there weren't a lot of changes, then I probably wouldn't stick with CLG. Because I'm 10 times as frustrated as our most passionate fan about the way things are going. Not just the organization, but me personally: I feel really stagnated. I haven't really accomplished anything or moved forward in a really long time, and that's probably the most frustrating thing in life – when you feel like you're just in the same spot that you were before. I'm gonna do everything that I can to fix that, and I'm gonna start taking a more active approach. Instead of trusting that the status quo is gonna work and that the way things are is just the way things are, and trusting in management, I'm gonna take a way more active approach to talking with Hotshot mostly and to make sure that everyone's doing what they should be doing.


In spite of that frustration, you're definitely determined to continue playing for the forseeable future to try and get that success?

Yeah, I'm definitely determined to keep playing and keep playing on CLG. I really do believe I was born to be a player, and I don't see myself with any team other than CLG. There's a lot of people who encouraged me to work for a company such as Riot or be a streamer, but that's not me. I was meant to be a pro player.




If you enjoyed this interview with Doublelift, be sure to register on
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  • Writers: ShiroKaisen
  • Editors: Zess
  • Graphics: Laural, JBright
  • Photos: GHOSTCLAW
  • Thanks to: Yiliang "Doublelift" Peng

Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 22:10:49
April 13 2015 21:55 GMT
#2
'And if there weren't a lot of changes, then I probably wouldn't stick with CLG.'

Interesting. Spirit please. I want to believe.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Hathsin
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany29 Posts
April 13 2015 21:58 GMT
#3
thank you for the interview!
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
April 13 2015 22:12 GMT
#4
I really enjoyed doing this interview, and I appreciated a lot how candid Peter was with me. Really hope CLG can figure out some of their issues, because everyone can see how effing talented the individual players are.
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Mag1c
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada180 Posts
April 13 2015 22:20 GMT
#5
Good stuff, valuable line of questions.
Oracle's Elixir: LoL eSports analytics (http://oracleselixir.com)
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
April 13 2015 22:36 GMT
#6
On April 14 2015 07:12 ShiroKaisen wrote:
I really enjoyed doing this interview, and I appreciated a lot how candid Peter was with me. Really hope CLG can figure out some of their issues, because everyone can see how effing talented the individual players are.

Yeah it was a good interview, felt very honest.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 23:19:11
April 13 2015 23:11 GMT
#7
Holy shit he went ham in this interview

Also it sounds like scarra is just a life coach lol. Is he not taking an active role in actually coaching their play? Coaches should be telling the team what went wrong and how to improve and what to do next. No wonder they haven't improved at all. Scarra should be an analyst and they should actually get a real coach. This isn't S3 anymore in NA. Any team worth anything has a coach that takes a much more active role in the team and dictates their play. Except maybe C9 since all their players are really smart to begin with.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 13 2015 23:43 GMT
#8
--- Nuked ---
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2270 Posts
April 13 2015 23:44 GMT
#9
Lim Yo Hwan of american League. one can feel the passion in his words.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 23:46:35
April 13 2015 23:46 GMT
#10
On April 14 2015 08:44 XenOsky- wrote:
Lim Yo Hwan of american League. one can feel the passion in his words.

Because there's never a reason not to post this

[image loading]
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
April 13 2015 23:51 GMT
#11
good work mister cameron
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 14 2015 00:22 GMT
#12
Great interview, I'll always be a DL fan, no matter how deep that rabbit hole goes.
liftlift > tsm
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
April 14 2015 01:55 GMT
#13
Pretty insightful and honest answers by Doublelift, we'll see where CLG goes in the next split
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
D Spayre
Profile Joined April 2015
United States1 Post
April 14 2015 02:12 GMT
#14
On April 14 2015 08:11 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Also it sounds like scarra is just a life coach lol. Is he not taking an active role in actually coaching their play? Coaches should be telling the team what went wrong and how to improve and what to do next. No wonder they haven't improved at all. Scarra should be an analyst and they should actually get a real coach. This isn't S3 anymore in NA. Any team worth anything has a coach that takes a much more active role in the team and dictates their play. Except maybe C9 since all their players are really smart to begin with.


Assuming the collective impression of Scarra's coaching with CLG is correct (because my perception is much the same as yours appears to be), I think he's taken that stance due to the apparent short-comings that the team had last season. A lot of the problems they had to close off the season 4 summer split seemed to be personality-based. I don't disagree, I'd expect a "coach" to have a more active role, but between those aired out short-comings, and his likely bro-to-bro relationship with most of the players, I can't say I don't understand the more passive approach. Hopefully, he's more aggressive with leading the team this upcoming split, but trying to build a rapport and keep everyone connected wasn't a bad approach to start. No one likes to lose, but the big picture is still that a ticket to world's is still every-bit up for grabs with the summer split....
Manners maketh man.
ComplacencyKills
Profile Joined January 2015
United States2 Posts
April 14 2015 03:48 GMT
#15
Great interview. Hope to see more from the team next split.
"Never put women on a pedestal. The increased height will expand their vision range and they might see dudes more buff than you" - Fionn
Banbaur
Profile Joined January 2015
United States4 Posts
April 14 2015 04:02 GMT
#16
Good interview!
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
April 14 2015 04:09 GMT
#17
Probably the most depressing thing about CLG in the playoffs for me was Scarra going "Remember guys, no matter what happens you had a great split." It came off as so defeatist. I get that's the classic Dig way that's come up in Qtpie and other Dig interviews but holy crap. If I were a coach like "We're going to rip off these guys heads and eat them for breakfast." And if that doesn't happen, then you drill the crap out of them until they're confident enough that's what will happen the next time.

But from the interview, it doesn't really sound like Scarra is doing that much to direct the team on a day to day basis. So... good luck with that CLG.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
April 14 2015 04:49 GMT
#18
I really feel like Doublelift more than anyone on CLG would benefit from leaving. He seems completely committed to the org, but his and CLGs performance has been waning the entire LCS era. He's generally been the least of CLG's problems, but he's been the dominant player on the team for so long that at some point you have to ask whether he's cut out for the leadership role CLG is built around. Where that's on him or due to Hotshot's inability to put the right components around him is irrelevant because if the problem was solvable it would have happened by now. Put him on a team with different personal and in-game dynamics and things might change.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
April 14 2015 05:27 GMT
#19
I really hope he does follow his own advice and takes on a more active role in the future.
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
April 14 2015 05:47 GMT
#20
On April 14 2015 13:09 zer0das wrote:
Probably the most depressing thing about CLG in the playoffs for me was Scarra going "Remember guys, no matter what happens you had a great split." It came off as so defeatist. I get that's the classic Dig way that's come up in Qtpie and other Dig interviews but holy crap. If I were a coach like "We're going to rip off these guys heads and eat them for breakfast." And if that doesn't happen, then you drill the crap out of them until they're confident enough that's what will happen the next time.

But from the interview, it doesn't really sound like Scarra is doing that much to direct the team on a day to day basis. So... good luck with that CLG.

Think you're reading into it too much. I think he just said that to try and relieve pressure off them. Of course, none of them are gonna buy that shit or think that way.
Orange Strapon
Profile Joined February 2015
United States3 Posts
April 14 2015 07:20 GMT
#21
Thanks for the interview! Great read!
NA LCS: CLG, NACS: CLG Black, NACC: UBC, EU LCS: UOL, EUCS: Origen, LCK: CJ Entus, LPL: OMG, LMS: AHQ, GPL: ASF, CBLOL: Keyd Stars, OPL: CHF, LAN: Lyon, LAS: BEN, TCL: DP, SLTV SS: M5, LJL: 7h
Terrador
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands23 Posts
April 14 2015 08:49 GMT
#22
Good interview. Kinda feels like the management has not just dropped the ball, they completely lost it...
MMA | Squirtle | Mvp | MC | Polt | Naniwa | Puzzle | Genuis | Sase | Marineking
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
April 14 2015 09:58 GMT
#23
On April 14 2015 13:49 Amarok wrote:
I really feel like Doublelift more than anyone on CLG would benefit from leaving. He seems completely committed to the org, but his and CLGs performance has been waning the entire LCS era. He's generally been the least of CLG's problems, but he's been the dominant player on the team for so long that at some point you have to ask whether he's cut out for the leadership role CLG is built around. Where that's on him or due to Hotshot's inability to put the right components around him is irrelevant because if the problem was solvable it would have happened by now. Put him on a team with different personal and in-game dynamics and things might change.


I feel like doublelift is a player that thrives when he doesn't have responsibility and on CLG there's no one else that even tries to take responsibility so it's kind of shoved on to double. I'd really like him to go to another team and start doing well there. It'll be better for him and maybe force CLG to start taking league seriously. Double on H2K would be pretty sweet :>
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
April 14 2015 16:13 GMT
#24
Highlight of the interview for those that don't want to read all of it :
"Technically we've been really consistent at playoffs, because we just always lose"
moush
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4 Posts
April 14 2015 20:41 GMT
#25
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 14 2015 21:20 GMT
#26
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

Of course, it must be DL's fault for Aphromoo's and Link's drop in play in time for playoffs, and singlehandidly drafting his team's comps to lose in the most terrible way possible to TL.
liftlift > tsm
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
April 14 2015 21:39 GMT
#27
Also, he has said he might be part of the problem in other interviews
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
April 14 2015 22:00 GMT
#28
Sounds like Scarra is a terrible coach.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:15:41
April 14 2015 23:14 GMT
#29
On April 15 2015 06:39 RagequitBM wrote:
Also, he has said he might be part of the problem in other interviews


You can say a lot of things about Doublelift, but he's always struck me as something of a realist. Even his trashtalking/bignoting can be viewed as such when he was still a godly player.

I think at some point he's gotten into his own head about his role on CLG. He's said so many times he doesn't want to be the main focus on the team but a more supportive style of ADC is wasted on him. He's at his best when he's aggressive and CLG need that from the AD position. Look at how his attitude changed about Sivir and then compare it to Forgiven's current position. Forgiven scoffs when he talks about playing Sivir and says he'll never play it because he wants to have a bigger impact that just pressing R to support his team. When DL was the best ADC in the west he had the same attitude but not anymore. He's playing like Cop and he too good for that.

That's why I think he should go. Get his head into a different environment. Let him learn how things work in other teams. Get him confident and putting games on his back again.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
AlreadyHere
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada26 Posts
April 15 2015 01:39 GMT
#30
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

As far as the in game play is concerned he does not seem to think he is the problem and I am inclined to agree. With all of his team gettng solo killed, missing skillshots and making horrible decisions he held firm and did as much as he could. It is hard to look good when the rest of the team is under performing.

He did however acknowledge he needs to take a more active role outside the game if he wants to compete with the best teams. I think these playoffs pretty much removed any bit of leeway the management had in terms of decision making and if they are not able to support their team properly both roster and coaching wise he will leave.
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
April 15 2015 02:01 GMT
#31
On April 15 2015 10:39 AlreadyHere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

As far as the in game play is concerned he does not seem to think he is the problem and I am inclined to agree. With all of his team gettng solo killed, missing skillshots and making horrible decisions he held firm and did as much as he could. It is hard to look good when the rest of the team is under performing.

He did however acknowledge he needs to take a more active role outside the game if he wants to compete with the best teams. I think these playoffs pretty much removed any bit of leeway the management had in terms of decision making and if they are not able to support their team properly both roster and coaching wise he will leave.


agreed 100%.

It didnt look to me like the games were at all his fault.

The current pro scene for League is still in the "whoever makes the least mistakes wins" rather than "whoever makes the bigger play".

I mean there are exceptions, but in MOST pro games, it comes down to minimizing the number of mistakes in order to achieve victory, because teams have gotten so good at punishing leads and leaning on the opposing team once they are ahead.

Aphro went from the god support.. to not even showing up for the playoffs. It seemed like he caught solo mentality of "just go in... o shit i died".

Their team fights were incredibly sloppy, like "were going..ok back..and now were going..shit shit go in!"

Xmithie took arguably the most op/broken champ in the current meta..and managed to make it look weak. He was never the carry jungle for CLG..but he was at least relevant.

I mean look at the SK vs UOL series. Game 5 in particular, Svenskaren had SK on his back ALL series, and was single handedly carrying from the jungle... but then they made 1 bad call, followed by 3 players all making bad decisions, and they lost.

Minimizing mistakes is the name of the game atm..not making plays. Svenskaren made play after play after play, and his team lost due to 3 mistakes in a row.

IDK, Doublelift in the series seemed to be fighting to be the consistent one, making sure he wasnt the one making mistakes for his opponents to capitalize on... he might not have been carrying, but he was arguably the most consistent player on his team for the series.

Zionspartan, Link, Aphro, and Xmithie all had a handful of mistakes/bad decisions every game, so I dont know how people consider Doublelift the problem with CLG, when he was the only one not giving away solo kills/diving into losing fights.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
April 15 2015 02:06 GMT
#32
I think if anyone is questioning Doublelift as being a problem in the team, it's that he is more veteran than any former player, and thus his influence/presence supersedes any former player coach, because doublelift probly played against them and was better at that time as well as now.

I'm not saying that Doublelift is the one who is making Scarra a passive coach, but put yourself in L1nk's shoes

two opinions: guy you've been on the same team with for two years, guy who has been playing just as far back as the coach has only his skills haven't dipped below player status

guy who is new to the team, same Experence level as Doublelift, only he wasn't ever as good as doublelift and isn't able to perform as a player anymore, unlike Doublelift.

and it's not just like Doublelift has to walk into the room and says I'm right guys this is what we should do. it can be subtle like, when they are talking about picks Doublelift can suggest plan A, team can agree on Scarra's plan B, when gameday arrives if things start to look or feel funny you start to get the grass is greener effect on Plan A, and then the thoughts from the middle paragraphs set in.

it's just a bad situation even if everyone means for the best.
Carrilord has arrived.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
April 15 2015 03:22 GMT
#33
I don't think DL was terrible this split, but he was certainly way below his previous form. Main problem was eating skillshots. So often CLG would try an aggressive siege with DL hitting the tower and he'd eat a bind/hook after sticking around for one shot too many. That said he was no worse than Turtle in that regard and he looked pretty good when CLG was on song. Probably 3rd NA ADC in the regular season behind Sneaky/Altec.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
moush
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4 Posts
April 15 2015 21:48 GMT
#34
Doublelift does not deserve any praise and hasn't deserved it for 2+ years. He pretty much has zero impact in his games recently, especially the playoffs.

I'm not sure if it's because he's just coasting along on his fame or what but it just doesn't seem like he has the same fire anymore.
NotMeEver
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
United States100 Posts
April 17 2015 07:01 GMT
#35
I think the change that also would've worked, other than doing that, would've been to get a coach.


Well, day-to-day we just talk to each other as players. Sometimes we'll talk to Scarra and sometimes he'll talk to us, and that's pretty much where it ends.


So, CLG replaced Monte, an admittedly part-time coach would couldn't always be with the team, with Scarra, apparently a part-time coach who didn't often interact with the team, but who also didn't have the analysis background that Monte did, nor the respect, I'm inferring, that comes with being older, rather than merely being a longtime contemporary.

Seems an odd coaching choice, in retrospect. I don't really see what Scarra has brought that Monte didn't as a remote coach. From how Monte has recalled it on Summoning Insight, it sounds like he was far more involved than Doublelift suggests Scarra has been. Obviously, we don't know everything, but... I don't really get it.
FBI Special Agent Francis York Morgan. Please, just call me York. That's what everyone calls me.
Mag1c
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada180 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-17 14:05:06
April 17 2015 14:04 GMT
#36
It's really hard to comment on different coaching styles, etc., when the info we have comes from a couple of interviews, not from actual observation or interaction with the coaches. I think Scarra deserves some benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'm sure coaching has a long way to go in the Western scene, before people understand and appreciate what coaches should actually be doing, and how.
Oracle's Elixir: LoL eSports analytics (http://oracleselixir.com)
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2396 Posts
April 17 2015 17:51 GMT
#37
I would definitely keep Scarra as an assistant coach or something since it seems he can manage egos, that's about it though. Add a head coach (not a part-timer pls) who's not afraid to have the final say, then you'll see things change (for better or worse, depends on coaching ability duh).
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
April 17 2015 18:17 GMT
#38
Doublelift is just a perpetually overrated player, which doesn't mean he's bad, but it does mean that people are expecting more from him than he can actually deliver on. Perhaps that can change with a coach who kicks his ass and forces him back into the greatness that he admittedly did have back in the day when he was a world-class adc. Regardless of whether Scarra is the issue, if DLift is as against his coaching style as he displayed here, I think HSGG would be hard-pressed to not go out and get a more active coach. He has his favorite adc to appease.
Hey! How you doin'?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
April 17 2015 23:37 GMT
#39
I am actually a little surprised about the move. Sure, CLG choked near the end; but as far as I can tell, CLG went from a team that almost got relegated to a team that performed fairly well for most of this split (until the very end). CLG had a game plan and demonstrated its strength in early game planning throughout the split.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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