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CLG Doublelift – Need for Change

Forum Index > LoL General
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ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
April 13 2015 21:45 GMT
#1



This was supposed to be the "Golden Age." CLG entered the split, as they have before, flying on the wings of hope. With CLG re-energized at every position, having the sharpest early game in the NA LCS, fans finally dared to hope that maybe, just maybe, Yiliang "Doublelift" Peng and the rest of his team would earn the trophy that's eluded them for years. But things didn't go as planned. The weaknesses identified at the start of the split never went away, and as teams leveled up their game going into playoffs, CLG was left behind once again. The team finished a disappointing 5/6th after a crushing 3–0 defeat at the hands of Team Liquid and playoff nemesis Xpecial. CLG fans are back to where they started: wondering what it'll take to finally get it right.

I spoke to Doublelift at LCS on Sunday after the games, and he spoke very candidly about his personal feelings about his split, the failings of the Counter Logic Gaming organization, their problems as a team, and where they go from here.


First off, it's been a week since the games. How are you feeling; what's your mental state these days?

Feeling pretty bad still. It's really disappointing, you know, 'cause I think we had a pretty average split. A regular split. Even though we were tied for first and second place the entire time, it didn't feel like we were improving too much, and I was always really frustrated with that fact. When we lost at playoffs, I knew I didn't act quick enough, or there was some sort of failure within the organization. It was really obvious to me really quickly that we weren't improving enough, and again, it's just an entire several months of work that I put in – that everyone put in – that kinda went down the drain and didn't end in any good results. Still pretty frustrated, and trying to consider what kind of changes I need to make, or the team needs to make.


You say you weren't improving throughout the split, but right up until the end of the split you were up at the top of the rankings – a lot of people were ranking you as a top 2 team NA. What do you think you needed to have been improving on internally that you weren't able to get figured out?

Well, our ability to beat top teams was pretty abysmal. We were 0–2 TSM, 1–1 C9, 0–2 TL, 1–1 TiP; that's not a good winrate. Especially going 0–2 vs TSM and TL, is just really really bad. You come into the split really strong, and you're able to beat all the bottom teams and none of the top teams, and that's just really frustrating. Because in the end, you have to beat ALL of the teams to be first and make Worlds. So I would just say that it was really obvious to me at the time. I was like, “Why can't we beat these top teams?” There was some kind of failure going on with leadership, and changes need to be made, but they just weren't made quick enough. I think we got really really happy, like overly happy, with beating teams we should be expected to beat. In my opinion, that's like being congratulated for putting gas in your car, or eating breakfast, it's pretty normal. You should be able to beat these teams on a daily basis easily. If you want to be a top team that shouldn't be a surprise. That should be an expectation.


Going into this season, CLG really talked about how they wanted to have 5 players who all got along with each other and would be able to work through difficulties and not start to hate each other. What was the environment in the CLG practice house like once you guys started to struggle?

The environment's pretty good actually. I think we succeeded in that goal, in having 5 players who work well outside the game and are able to talk and sort out differences. Still, we're not all best-friends-holding-hands day-to-day but we can talk to each other pretty easily, and it seems like a positive environment. I think the change that also would've worked, other than doing that, would've been to get a coach. A coach is there to make sure your relationships are fine regardless of whether or not you can inherently get along with each other. We kinda doubled up on that, so now our team environment is very very positive, and we're all just trying to pump each other up.


With that great environment, why do you think you weren't able to fix those problems you'd identified throughout the split?

At the end of the day, improvement is all relative because every pro player in the world is improving. Whether you're in the Japan start-up league or in OGN, it really doesn't matter where you're from as a pro player: your job is to improve, so everyone is always improving. It's about the rate you're improving. You want to accelerate your improvement. So yeah, I saw some small improvements, but across the split people from the very beginning had highlighted that we have really poor team fighting and relied solely on getting a lead early so we don't have to team fight fairly when the game is even or when we're behind. That was a problem that persisted throughout the entire split we never actually fixed. I think that's pretty unacceptable for 8 or 9 weeks to pass by, that's like a two month span of time, and for our team fighting to only barely improve. Not only that, but there's a lot of problems – and I don't want to go too much into detail about or weaknesses as a team – but we definitely had a lot. Our only real strength came from our early game, and that was just because we picked up really good players who knew how to lane well. I don't think that's really considered a strength of the team as much as “Okay, we have pretty good players, they know how to win lane, that's good for us.” Team-oriented things that I think should be improved on, like working together, and being able to coordinate a play, and shotcalling, and leadership are things that I find to be the most important and that CLG has struggled with the most.


Who does all the shotcalling throughout the games?

Link and Aphro do pretty much all the shotcalling throughout a game.


Do you think spreading out shotcalling might help, or is that pretty solid?

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having one, or possibly two, shotcallers. I've done a lot of talking to people who are on wildly successful teams in their region and the best teams in the world like SKT and Samsung White, and these teams always have a primary shotcaller and supplementary shotcallers for when their primary shotcaller is at a lack of expertise or tilted, then the supplementary shotcallers can jump in and kickstart the primary one back up. The problem is we've had the same shotcallers for two years, and the way they interact with each other is a little bit inconsistent. That's why we have so much shotcalling and leadership issues, and we've always been really inconsistent at playoffs... technically we've been really consistent at playoffs, because we just always lose. That's definitely our big problem, the way that we function as a team fundamentally – the way we've built it up – is probably wrong.


In seeing that, I know Hotshot tweeted big changes were coming and you've alluded that you're considering big changes. I know you can't say anything here, but is a roster change on CLG likely going into the summer split?

I just know what Hotshot said is definitely true. I didn't see the tweet myself, but there definitely are gonna be big changes. I don't know if it's gonna be roster changes, or if it's gonna be management, organization, coaching changes or whatever it is, but there need to be big changes within the team because the way it's set up right now... it needs to be completely uprooted. Something needs to change about the way we think as people – as teammates – or... just anything. I've taken a working role on the team. If they want me to be a team player, I can be a team player. If they want me to be a selfish player, I can be a selfish player. But I'm not dealt a lot of responsibility, because it's shifted on other people. I'm totally fine with that – it's not like I'm power hungry and want leadership or anything like that. I just want something that works. And what we've been doing for a very long time just simply doesn't work.


From a managerial perspective, what would your ideal management environment be for CLG?

I would just say a lot of communication and oversight and a lot of feedback loops. Right now, there's no loop. It's a one-way street where the management doesn't exactly oversee the coaching, and the coaching just kinda trickles information into us. There's not really any circular loop that feeds back and then everyone can improve. The way it's set up right now... the reason our improvement stagnates so quickly is just there's no communication within the company. That's why I say the way it's set up is probably wrong.


So during your day-to-day it's you guys, you talk to Scarra, he talks to the leadership, and not that much information gets related back to you?

Well, day-to-day we just talk to each other as players. Sometimes we'll talk to Scarra and sometimes he'll talk to us, and that's pretty much where it ends.


So Scarra doesn't take as much of an active role in your day-to-day practice as some other coaches?

Yeah, I'd say Scarra definitely takes a more passive role. He's very good at understanding where you're coming from and absorbing information, but much less authoritative. He has a lot of authority on the team and when he tells me to do something, I just do it without questioning it too much. But he doesn't utilize that with an iron fist as much as some of the other coaches I see, who are just literally bossing people around. So I feel like there is a middle ground there, and Scarra has a lot of authority and has a lot of respect in the organization, but he is a little bit light fingered. He always wants to make sure first that we're happy with the way things are going, and I think overly so. Sometimes you have to do things you're uncomfortable or unhappy with for the good of everyone.


Going forward, you've been taking a lot of flak online about this stuff. You're somebody who's had an open relationship with the community for a very long time. Are you used to that at this point, or does it still get to you?

I think having a relationship with the community is almost never one way. You can't dip your hand in there and not get burned sometimes. I don't get affected when it comes down to my play too much, but in terms of my mental state it's pretty frustrating when any time we lose... I'm the face of CLG, so naturally I'll be blamed for a lot of or all of our failure, and I don't think it's fair, personally, because I'm biased and it's hard to be objective about that sort of thing. I just get really frustrated at the situation, because I put a lot of work in, y'know? And in the end we just couldn't pull it through.


I think right now most of the flak has been going onto Link and to Xmithie, especially after some of the Sejuani ults that he missed got replayed over and over again. Is it hard for the players in the team to avoid putting the blame on one person for the failures, and does that affect the relationship after a hard loss like that?

I think that whole concept is pretty overplayed. You don't have to be a genius to know that Xmithie missed those Sejuani ultis, and he himself knows that he did that. So it's maybe a little bit salting the wound, but he already knew he messed up, and Link already knew when he messed up. Everyone knows, for the most part, so it's not that bad, as much as people think. You don't do something as destructive as say “You missed all those Sejuani ultis, you suck.” It's like “We should practice it more, so you can be more consistent. How can I help you cover up your weaknesses?” It's more constructive than that.


In general, people were surprised that Link was brought back at first but he really showed people up at the beginning of the split when he was playing really well. But again this split, he petered out towards the end. Why do you think this pattern with Link, and CLG in general, tends to repeat?

I think Link is just a product of the environment, where it's really hard to improve. Some of it's on him, but most of it's on the way things are within the team. It's really difficult when you go into the split when you win everything to still think critically about your mistakes all the time. Sometimes you wanna just relish the moment. We're all guilty of that, and we need essentially a loop of people telling us that “No, winning is acceptable, it's not something that you should be proud of.” So it really just comes down to leadership.


The CLG fans are really die-hard passionate about this CLG team. Do you have any words of encouragement, anything you'd want to let those fans know going forward into the months before the summer split?

Nothing that you guys won't hear from me directly, but mostly just that there's gonna be a lot of changes like Hotshot said. And if there weren't a lot of changes, then I probably wouldn't stick with CLG. Because I'm 10 times as frustrated as our most passionate fan about the way things are going. Not just the organization, but me personally: I feel really stagnated. I haven't really accomplished anything or moved forward in a really long time, and that's probably the most frustrating thing in life – when you feel like you're just in the same spot that you were before. I'm gonna do everything that I can to fix that, and I'm gonna start taking a more active approach. Instead of trusting that the status quo is gonna work and that the way things are is just the way things are, and trusting in management, I'm gonna take a way more active approach to talking with Hotshot mostly and to make sure that everyone's doing what they should be doing.


In spite of that frustration, you're definitely determined to continue playing for the forseeable future to try and get that success?

Yeah, I'm definitely determined to keep playing and keep playing on CLG. I really do believe I was born to be a player, and I don't see myself with any team other than CLG. There's a lot of people who encouraged me to work for a company such as Riot or be a streamer, but that's not me. I was meant to be a pro player.




If you enjoyed this interview with Doublelift, be sure to register on
LiquidLegends.net
and keep up-to-date with the discussion on our forums!



  • Writers: ShiroKaisen
  • Editors: Zess
  • Graphics: Laural, JBright
  • Photos: GHOSTCLAW
  • Thanks to: Yiliang "Doublelift" Peng

Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 22:10:49
April 13 2015 21:55 GMT
#2
'And if there weren't a lot of changes, then I probably wouldn't stick with CLG.'

Interesting. Spirit please. I want to believe.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Hathsin
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany29 Posts
April 13 2015 21:58 GMT
#3
thank you for the interview!
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
April 13 2015 22:12 GMT
#4
I really enjoyed doing this interview, and I appreciated a lot how candid Peter was with me. Really hope CLG can figure out some of their issues, because everyone can see how effing talented the individual players are.
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Mag1c
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada180 Posts
April 13 2015 22:20 GMT
#5
Good stuff, valuable line of questions.
Oracle's Elixir: LoL eSports analytics (http://oracleselixir.com)
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
April 13 2015 22:36 GMT
#6
On April 14 2015 07:12 ShiroKaisen wrote:
I really enjoyed doing this interview, and I appreciated a lot how candid Peter was with me. Really hope CLG can figure out some of their issues, because everyone can see how effing talented the individual players are.

Yeah it was a good interview, felt very honest.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 23:19:11
April 13 2015 23:11 GMT
#7
Holy shit he went ham in this interview

Also it sounds like scarra is just a life coach lol. Is he not taking an active role in actually coaching their play? Coaches should be telling the team what went wrong and how to improve and what to do next. No wonder they haven't improved at all. Scarra should be an analyst and they should actually get a real coach. This isn't S3 anymore in NA. Any team worth anything has a coach that takes a much more active role in the team and dictates their play. Except maybe C9 since all their players are really smart to begin with.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
April 13 2015 23:43 GMT
#8
--- Nuked ---
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2011 Posts
April 13 2015 23:44 GMT
#9
Lim Yo Hwan of american League. one can feel the passion in his words.
Latino flavor... disturbed Mind
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-13 23:46:35
April 13 2015 23:46 GMT
#10
On April 14 2015 08:44 XenOsky- wrote:
Lim Yo Hwan of american League. one can feel the passion in his words.

Because there's never a reason not to post this

[image loading]
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25011 Posts
April 13 2015 23:51 GMT
#11
good work mister cameron
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 14 2015 00:22 GMT
#12
Great interview, I'll always be a DL fan, no matter how deep that rabbit hole goes.
liftlift > tsm
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
April 14 2015 01:55 GMT
#13
Pretty insightful and honest answers by Doublelift, we'll see where CLG goes in the next split
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
D Spayre
Profile Joined April 2015
United States1 Post
April 14 2015 02:12 GMT
#14
On April 14 2015 08:11 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Also it sounds like scarra is just a life coach lol. Is he not taking an active role in actually coaching their play? Coaches should be telling the team what went wrong and how to improve and what to do next. No wonder they haven't improved at all. Scarra should be an analyst and they should actually get a real coach. This isn't S3 anymore in NA. Any team worth anything has a coach that takes a much more active role in the team and dictates their play. Except maybe C9 since all their players are really smart to begin with.


Assuming the collective impression of Scarra's coaching with CLG is correct (because my perception is much the same as yours appears to be), I think he's taken that stance due to the apparent short-comings that the team had last season. A lot of the problems they had to close off the season 4 summer split seemed to be personality-based. I don't disagree, I'd expect a "coach" to have a more active role, but between those aired out short-comings, and his likely bro-to-bro relationship with most of the players, I can't say I don't understand the more passive approach. Hopefully, he's more aggressive with leading the team this upcoming split, but trying to build a rapport and keep everyone connected wasn't a bad approach to start. No one likes to lose, but the big picture is still that a ticket to world's is still every-bit up for grabs with the summer split....
Manners maketh man.
ComplacencyKills
Profile Joined January 2015
United States2 Posts
April 14 2015 03:48 GMT
#15
Great interview. Hope to see more from the team next split.
"Never put women on a pedestal. The increased height will expand their vision range and they might see dudes more buff than you" - Fionn
Banbaur
Profile Joined January 2015
United States4 Posts
April 14 2015 04:02 GMT
#16
Good interview!
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
April 14 2015 04:09 GMT
#17
Probably the most depressing thing about CLG in the playoffs for me was Scarra going "Remember guys, no matter what happens you had a great split." It came off as so defeatist. I get that's the classic Dig way that's come up in Qtpie and other Dig interviews but holy crap. If I were a coach like "We're going to rip off these guys heads and eat them for breakfast." And if that doesn't happen, then you drill the crap out of them until they're confident enough that's what will happen the next time.

But from the interview, it doesn't really sound like Scarra is doing that much to direct the team on a day to day basis. So... good luck with that CLG.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
April 14 2015 04:49 GMT
#18
I really feel like Doublelift more than anyone on CLG would benefit from leaving. He seems completely committed to the org, but his and CLGs performance has been waning the entire LCS era. He's generally been the least of CLG's problems, but he's been the dominant player on the team for so long that at some point you have to ask whether he's cut out for the leadership role CLG is built around. Where that's on him or due to Hotshot's inability to put the right components around him is irrelevant because if the problem was solvable it would have happened by now. Put him on a team with different personal and in-game dynamics and things might change.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
April 14 2015 05:27 GMT
#19
I really hope he does follow his own advice and takes on a more active role in the future.
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
April 14 2015 05:47 GMT
#20
On April 14 2015 13:09 zer0das wrote:
Probably the most depressing thing about CLG in the playoffs for me was Scarra going "Remember guys, no matter what happens you had a great split." It came off as so defeatist. I get that's the classic Dig way that's come up in Qtpie and other Dig interviews but holy crap. If I were a coach like "We're going to rip off these guys heads and eat them for breakfast." And if that doesn't happen, then you drill the crap out of them until they're confident enough that's what will happen the next time.

But from the interview, it doesn't really sound like Scarra is doing that much to direct the team on a day to day basis. So... good luck with that CLG.

Think you're reading into it too much. I think he just said that to try and relieve pressure off them. Of course, none of them are gonna buy that shit or think that way.
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