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On March 24 2015 13:42 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2015 13:20 JimmiC wrote:
I remember it came up a while ago about ashe and how she was bad. But I find her late game super strong. especially for a novice adc I can sit back and kite with my q. poke with W and initiate with my r or peel with it. I feel like the extra range makes we way safer.
I'm not sure if its the champ or just the way I play with her but I don't seam to get blown up as often maybe im further back because I'm slow I'm not sure.
Lane phase however I tend to suck with her, but as long as team doesn't implode, into an 13 year old girl bitch fest the comebacks are real. That late game damage along with the long range stun is a pretty bad ass combo.
I am the exact same way. I lose every lane phase with Ashe. Then I slow farm bot lane and if my team can hold long enough I end up shooting an R, toggling Q, and just pew pew pew for a double or triple and boom guess who is back in the game. So easy to position with her too. I play like such a pussy in teamfights but whatever, it works. The only ADC I play.
Are you guys me? I pretty much have the same experience.
Also Ashe feels a lot safer to play when you're used to playing something like, oh say, Draven. I think that extra 50 auto attack range goes a long ways (towards safety).
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On March 24 2015 14:17 Caiada wrote:
Ashe and Cait are the best ADCs for people bad at ADC. I know from experience :I
I agree but i can't pick 1 over the other (for scrub ADCs). Cait has an easier laning phase but a Cait that goes even in lane is worse than an Ashe that does.
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As a guy who doesn't play much ADC, I like Ezreal. All I gotta do is play safe in lane, and once I have muramana and triforce, life is good.
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On March 24 2015 14:37 GolemMadness wrote:
As a guy who doesn't play much ADC, I like Ezreal. All I gotta do is play safe in lane, and once I have muramana and triforce, life is good.
dis. I used to like cait for similar reason, but I feel like I can be more impactful outside of laning with Ez.
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I never understood why people recommend Cait for that reason, bad/new AD players biggest problem is in most cases is not autoing enough, I feel like spell based adc like Graves and Corki are a lot more intuitive to bruiser / mid players
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On March 24 2015 14:42 Slusher wrote:
I never understood why people recommend Cait for that reason, bad/new AD players biggest problem is in most cases is not autoing enough, I feel like spell based adc like Graves and Corki are a lot more intuitive to bruiser / mid players
cait is recommended because she's very safe and has a strong laning phase.
longer range = more forgiving regarding positioning and easier trades.
it's easier for people to ease into the ADC role properly on cait.
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I agree with Slusher, if you're going to have someone learn how to ADC give them Graves. That's the champ I learned ADC on. Even if I was mispositioning, I could still deal some decent burst with his spells and split push like a beast. I think I really learned how to ADC with Tristana though. Having two strong self peels make mistakes less punishing, and her AA animation was less clunky before the rework.
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On March 24 2015 14:44 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2015 14:42 Slusher wrote:
I never understood why people recommend Cait for that reason, bad/new AD players biggest problem is in most cases is not autoing enough, I feel like spell based adc like Graves and Corki are a lot more intuitive to bruiser / mid players cait is recommended because she's very safe and has a strong laning phase. longer range = more forgiving regarding positioning and easier trades. it's easier for people to ease into the ADC role properly on cait.
But it's bad advice because cait requires a lot of skill to effectively win bot lane, which she must do in order to have a mid or lategame impact. It's not easy to ease into the role when cait requires intimate knowledge of bot lane dynamics and very crisp auto attacking in order to be effective.
With Ashe going even in lane means you're ahead, and if you lose, you will always have engage and kite tools. With cait if you lose lane you're the lowest damage adc in the game and you're behind.
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How do people still not know that going even with cait in lane means you are losing?
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When I play Ashe and there's a Rengar or an Ahri in the enemy team I just die.
(Granted, if Rengar gets to 2 items I get 100-0'd with Graves too, but the dash makes it harder. Also it I lack a backline the AS buff makes it easier to kite during the midgame, before she gets enough AS and the MS from PD/Shiv I find it hard to kite with Ashe vs high base MS champs like Lee because even slowed they catch up to you anyway.)
Tristana however felt super clunky even post-rework, I got screwed with the ult either not casting, or trying to cast it against a gap closer and I ended up knocking the target behind me which, well, wasn't quite the intended effect and didn't go well for me.
Plus I feel like I have no reach until super late (and even then, after her passive nerf) since E and R ranges scale with her auto range. That's something I'm uncomfortable on bunch of bruisers too (I mean, reach-less bruisers I play are Jax/Irelia, who can afford to just go ham because Triforce burst, or Udyr, who is a god in the midgame), so on a squishy marksman it's even worse. Didn't really feel good having everything tied to autos (doesn't mean it's bad, just not for me).
Tried MF too, suicided a bunch of times by trying to be too ham (and her passive was basically mobos, I'd always take damage immediatly). I was bad at using her ult, but even getting a full channel off feels very underwhelming post rework.
The numbers read really good though (400/600/1000 + around 2 total AD minimum for a full channel), so I'm not sure why it always felt like I dealt absolutely no damage with it. Rank 1 ult does more damage to everyone in the zone than Graves' rank 2 ult on the first opponent hit.
And of course it tapers off when people get MR because despite the almost 4 AD scaling on it it counts as magic damage.
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On March 24 2015 17:28 nafta wrote:
How do people still not know that going even with cait in lane means you are losing?
Depending on the skill level of the friend (e.g. Silver or below, maybe even Gold) this isn't all that relevant for learning the basics of ADC.
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To be honest I think the best adc for a new player, is just like it is with every other role - the one they enjoy the most to play. It's much easier to learn when you're sitting with a big grin on your mug.
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I think Urgot is a good adc to learn, because he's like training weights. If you can play a good Urgot, you're likely a god at this game.
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On March 24 2015 22:04 Zdrastochye wrote:
I think Urgot is a good adc to learn, because he's like training weights. If you can play a good Urgot, you're likely a god at this game.
It's like saying Annie is a good ADC to learn. Urgot isn't made to be played bottom, he's a solo laner.
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To those saying Caitlyn is a good adc to learn with I wholeheartedly disagree, while those saying Ashe I wholeheartedly agree with them that she is probably the most solid adc to learn the role with for a number of reasons.
It's been mentioned that CS score needs to be way up with Caitlyn -> if you aren't 20-30 cs up on Caitlyn with a tower advantage you haven't actually won your lane, and she feels extremely weak in the current meta of tanky jungle/top/support. Ashe however has a built in catch up mechanism with her E so that even if you are 10-15 cs down you may actually be closer in gold that you realize.
Secondly, Caitlyn is extremely team reliant, she needs an incredible front and mid line to protect from dive, and she is a much more reactive carry in a teamfight. However, Ashe provides an incredible long/mid-range engage as well as a self-peel in her arrow, and it's actually fantastic in solo queue to use it as primary engage (as long as you can hit it).
Thirdly, the laning as Ashe is actually fine in most matchups - her range gives her solid poke advantage against almost every other adc and her volley is decent poke pre-6 as well (although a bit mana intensive). I think her toolkit is better for learning every aspect as an adc, and laning and teamfighting you have very clear things you need to do (hit arrow, hit volleys, kite, etc.) whereas Caitlyn again feels very reactive in teamfighting but you have to be extremely proactive while you are laning which is working at cross purposes.
Mostly this is based on my own experience leveling from lowly Bronze to about mid-gold with only Ashe as my main adc.
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On March 24 2015 22:37 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2015 22:04 Zdrastochye wrote:
I think Urgot is a good adc to learn, because he's like training weights. If you can play a good Urgot, you're likely a god at this game. It's like saying Annie is a good ADC to learn. Urgot isn't made to be played bottom, he's a solo laner.
Well I was mostly joking with my comment, but Urgot could definitely be played bot with a Leona and work out well. Maybe not competitively viable but I'm sure it could win games from bronze to masters.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
vayne is obviously the prime choice for creating adc players.
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I think corki is the best adc for non adc players. Very safe in team fights and is least auto dependent.
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On March 24 2015 18:26 Alaric wrote:+ Show Spoiler +When I play Ashe and there's a Rengar or an Ahri in the enemy team I just die.
(Granted, if Rengar gets to 2 items I get 100-0'd with Graves too, but the dash makes it harder. Also it I lack a backline the AS buff makes it easier to kite during the midgame, before she gets enough AS and the MS from PD/Shiv I find it hard to kite with Ashe vs high base MS champs like Lee because even slowed they catch up to you anyway.)
Tristana however felt super clunky even post-rework, I got screwed with the ult either not casting, or trying to cast it against a gap closer and I ended up knocking the target behind me which, well, wasn't quite the intended effect and didn't go well for me.
Plus I feel like I have no reach until super late (and even then, after her passive nerf) since E and R ranges scale with her auto range. That's something I'm uncomfortable on bunch of bruisers too (I mean, reach-less bruisers I play are Jax/Irelia, who can afford to just go ham because Triforce burst, or Udyr, who is a god in the midgame), so on a squishy marksman it's even worse. Didn't really feel good having everything tied to autos (doesn't mean it's bad, just not for me).
Tried MF too, suicided a bunch of times by trying to be too ham (and her passive was basically mobos, I'd always take damage immediatly). I was bad at using her ult, but even getting a full channel off feels very underwhelming post rework.
The numbers read really good though (400/600/1000 + around 2 total AD minimum for a full channel), so I'm not sure why it always felt like I dealt absolutely no damage with it. Rank 1 ult does more damage to everyone in the zone than Graves' rank 2 ult on the first opponent hit.
And of course it tapers off when people get MR because despite the almost 4 AD scaling on it it counts as magic damage.
I find ADCs with gap closers have a longer windup time for their auto attacks, Which is why I tend to prefer immobile ADCs. I also find Tristana way clunkier now than prerework. Partially because her attack speed was reduced so much, it makes kiting more difficult since I think she should have an auto attack when she doesn't. Also her E didn't have an hour and a half cast time and acted as an AA reset for quick trades.
New Tristana can lick my balls. I never really understood why people found old Tristana clunky. I guess her jump had a long cast time.
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EPT
