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On March 15 2015 11:02 Slayer91 wrote:
you're pretty much guaranteed 3 hits as irelia if you want to trade with e+auto+q+auto but I guess the point is you get a longer stun so you can just E and run away and spam it without having to fight so they decided to nerf the damage a bit
I'd almost never use Q right away for auto reset. If you're in a situation where you got stun off, against a lot of champs you can afford to just sit there and auto, and when they get out of range Q to get another one or two off. If you have to burn a Q cooldown, I'd want to make sure my opponent is going to have to spend the next 15 seconds sitting off the creep wave potting, if not going back to base.
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On March 15 2015 09:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
any tips on laning as bard yet? i find it so hard to have presence early levels when e is useless and w takes half your mana for a 70hp heal
i also have no idea which supp item to start with because they all feel useless on him
I've been playing him in bot lane support and am thinking about how to best contribute. His poke damage is fairly lame early on and doesn't trade well with a lot of characters. Other than Caretaker's Shrine, his skills don't scale well with AP so I've been equipping +AD marks and then mostly defensive marks to trade better. It's hard to force a fight with Bard, but as long as your ADC is farming well then I think that's acceptable.
His strength though is his ability to stay in lane for an incredibly long time. The shrine heals are great for you and your lane partner (make sure they know how the shrines work) and his brief journeys keeps his mana flowing. I skill Cartaker's Shrine first and drop it behind tower at the very start of the game, then replenish some of that mana with the first Ancient Chime. Repeat with the next 2 shrines and you'll have 3 shrines ready to go and about half mana before the creep waves clash.
I'm lost about how to gear him though. So far I've been focused on defense and do basically no damage the entire game. His AP ratios are quite low (but he can hit 2+ people with skills so that helps) and I've yet to get 150+ chimes to boost his Meep damage high. So far it's been the standard Ancient Coin -> Boots -> Wards to start, then various defensive items depending on the enemy.
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On March 15 2015 16:30 EtDecius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2015 09:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
any tips on laning as bard yet? i find it so hard to have presence early levels when e is useless and w takes half your mana for a 70hp heal
i also have no idea which supp item to start with because they all feel useless on him I've been playing him in bot lane support and am thinking about how to best contribute. His poke damage is fairly lame early on and doesn't trade well with a lot of characters. Other than Caretaker's Shrine, his skills don't scale well with AP so I've been equipping +AD marks and then mostly defensive marks to trade better. It's hard to force a fight with Bard, but as long as your ADC is farming well then I think that's acceptable. His strength though is his ability to stay in lane for an incredibly long time. The shrine heals are great for you and your lane partner (make sure they know how the shrines work) and his brief journeys keeps his mana flowing. I skill Cartaker's Shrine first and drop it behind tower at the very start of the game, then replenish some of that mana with the first Ancient Chime. Repeat with the next 2 shrines and you'll have 3 shrines ready to go and about half mana before the creep waves clash. I'm lost about how to gear him though. So far I've been focused on defense and do basically no damage the entire game. His AP ratios are quite low (but he can hit 2+ people with skills so that helps) and I've yet to get 150+ chimes to boost his Meep damage high. So far it's been the standard Ancient Coin -> Boots -> Wards to start, then various defensive items depending on the enemy.
i've been running spellthief mostly just because when you meep auto it counts as two procs
i also find that i can basically stay in lane forever and usually have really awkward shop timings compared to my ad where he is stranded for a while longer than i'd like, gotta work on that. i like to take Shrine first so i can baby my jungler through their clear
i just feel so incredibly useless in the 2v2. it's infuriating. i also feel like roaming mid and placing a w isn't really worth abandoning my ad although i do get chimes along the way
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Oh, Eve can 6camp clear without pull now after jungle nerfs. sweet.
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what the fuck are you guys all talking about
you aren't using your Q in a situation where you get realistically the most damage you can get in a trade?
hurrdurr dont use my ability because it costs mana
you don't have to use it for an auto reset you can use it toward the end of you W
also you usually get flask on irelia precisely because you don't have the mana to kill someone like vlad because you want about 3 full combos on him to kill
oh you think because I said you are guaranteed 3 hits because of E+auto+q+auto
doesnt mean you HAVE to immediately do that
as long as you Q within 5 seconds of activating W you get a q+auto combo
also because your E cd is 8 seconds you are very close to getting a second E off which is helpful if you want to finish someone off with e+2autos+ult
if you're laning against something like ryze or jayce you need to leverage the bush to get a ranged creep low to threaten a qreset+e+2nd q later engage, it doesnt matter a dick to jayce if you try to run up to him it's not going to work and if you WQE him its unfavourable just slightly less so if you maxed E.
i dont think E max is particularly strong but i do think its a good nerf simply because the spell does too much damage (don't forget ap scaling) for a spell which such a strong cc and short cd
fact is W is still utterly broken in lane where 75 true damage is insane
remember because its true damage it realistically only need 2 hits to break even with E max which is absurd because you're guaranteed 3-4
On March 15 2015 12:06 Alaric wrote:
It's a bit like Olaf's Q. Typical example is against Vlad: you wanna be able to threaten to jump on him anytime because otherwise the fucker will sustain back to full.
If you use Q at the end of W's duration to get 1-2 last instances, then W is on ~9s cd and Q is on 14s cd, so you already prolong your "Q to nearby minion to start the trade"-less window by 5s. You also have to walk back after you use it and he can get a few autos/Qs on you during that.
With Olaf if you send "one last Q" toward him, either you don't pick it up and you give up on zoning potential while it's down, or you go to pick it up and you take free damage (and healing for him) while you walk back to the wave after going farther.
Unless 1-2 autos more really make a big impact, I'd rather be able to zone my opponent because I'm almost immediatly ready to go back in than get a bit of damage that he'll heal during the longer window.
Also champs like Jayce on whom you can't jump if you can't reset Q anyway.
And yeah using Q liberaly just runs Irelia oom. Her mana costs are really low, but her pool is so tiny she can still be very mana intensive before Sheen/Triforce if you trade often.
the thing about getting 1 auto after q is that its the worst case scenario and it happens only when the other hero is running the fuck away and when you turn back while he's running he won't be able to get much done
especially since your E will be up if he's not careful you can run back in to E range activate W and Q will be up towards the end of W again
if you disengage without using Q you are in a similar situation to disengaging with using Q because there's no difference to vlad when you use Q
its only effective specifically in the timing window you can WQE again and theres only a few seconds between the situations whereas you just missed on a minimum of 2 Hiten procs 2 autos +the blade surge bonus (at level 9 probably what 150 true damage +200 phys without sheen so about 300 damage)
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Anyone else playing any Nunu these days? He feels really damn strong, especially with a Jinx or Tristana. Probably not so good with an Ezreal.
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The worst thing about bard is you know you arent gonna be that useful compared to other supports but you pick him anyway cuz he is THAT fun.
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ive played against jungle ad bard other day, his ganks were incredibly annoying.
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I played against a Bard who just roamed 24/7 from level 3 onwards and that was actually really effective. Granted, he was with a Caitlyn against I believe Ez/Soraka, so the cait was doing just fine on her own, but it actually worked.
It might also have been because he was just better than the other team, now that I think about it. They weren't very good.
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Thing about Bard right now is he can do very unexpected things with his tunnel and his R. It's really hard to predict but then again that might just be because he is new.
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At level 9 the lane's mostly decided though. And yeah I was saying against champions who can disengage, then harass you on the way back if you follow them. To stay with the Vlad example, if he burns W to get away (between his slight MS buff and the pool's slow) after the stun wears off, you can use Q to get 2 applications more, or hold it and have a larger window to punish him while pool is down.
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and how are you going to punish him while his pool is down?
by Qing on him with W active and then getting 1 or 2 more autos?
oh wait
doesnt matter what level it is E gains 50 damage per rank plus some slow duration (35ish damage counting in mr) W gains 15 true damage per auto plus some healing
if vlad instantly uses pool after stun while your Q is up then sure its better to save Q sometimes because its a long cd and you can probably keep a ranged creep low but most likely vlad will use pool to reengage when all your shits down or something because he doesnt save any hp at all really using pool
in any case pool is a long enough cd that you can punish either way if he wastes it, its 26 seconds even with cdr its a full wave where he cant use it
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you can max anything as irelia and still dumpster vlad lel
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I don't understand this current discussion, but I am going to assume that the D1 toplaner who plays Irelia is right and everybody else is wrong.
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i dont understand are you saying alaric is right
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United States37500 Posts
He's like all utility. Can't imagine how productive he can be in solo q.
You can terror your own team so hard with Journey and ulti.
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Don't care. Magical journey too fun. Baited an enemy maokai to take my magical journey when I was at 10hp, lol he thought I was gunna use it to escape. Seriously the funnest champ rito has made, when you make plays with magic journey and shit, it's too hilarious.
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On March 16 2015 00:08 NeoIllusions wrote:
He's like all utility. Can't imagine how productive he can be in solo q.
You can terror your own team so hard with Journey and ulti.
not to mention he relies almost entirely on your team following up on his actions in some way, and his kit just doesn't fit with the roaming they want from him. he needs to have a longer stun or more damage to make ganks actually do something. 1.8-3s duration or have his base damage on his Q start at 150 and go to 350.
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EPT
