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My first thought upon seeing the changes was "E is not massively buffed. You went oom just using E in teamfights previously. You'll get oom even faster. Nope."
W has a low cost and you barely use Q because contrary to Amumu (and maybe Sejuani?) it's the ability you max last, keeping the long cd, so when you deplete your mana bar ridiculously fast it's your E usage.
Frankly I'd rather E has a longer cd but an actual usage/impact in fights, W gets damage back to retain a mildly decent clear, and to get some QoL (for example you don't get almost half a second of effective self-rooting when you cast E, or a more forgiving hitbox for Q hitting terrain (making hit match the actual anchor would greatly help eyeballing)).
Apart from the obvious Q+R (that you'll only cast once per fight for most of the game) I feel that my main asset as Naut is how tanky W makes him with health and CDR. When everyone's at 30% health when clean-up phase is close, and you've got double that + 400~600 HP shields every 10s, you can be pretty liberal with facetanking spells for your teammates, or just walk at someone to zone them and make space for your damage dealers;
Also W's damage used to be pretty threatening with your passive if you could catch someone at that point. passive-W reset-1 or 2 swings during passive duration was an easy 300-400 damage (total, including autos) before resists, enough that you'd simply outlast squishies.
The more they nerf W, the less valuable how unkillable you are is.
TL;DR: mid-late game Nautilus can easily stay healthy till late in the fights. That allows him to "throw health" at the enemy to zone them or outlast the squishies in brawls. But if they make him more mana intensive (mana is already an issue in these situations) or lessen W's impact (main damage ability) then he has no way to make use of that healthiness.
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Bard's e lets you set up some pretty hilarious ganks though. Like when ganking vs purple lane bot, you can bypass the entire south wall of the jungle and end up behind the middle of their lane.
His laning is pretty bad though. I think he needs a reduction in mana costs, and an increase in aa range on his meep attacks.
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On March 15 2015 08:27 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2015 08:17 Mensol wrote:On March 15 2015 08:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On March 15 2015 08:03 Ketara wrote:
So, Nautilus question #2.
W max is like, the thing, but now with the changes, does E max look better? What changes makes E max on Naut better? If anything, all the HP stack because of Cinderhulk solidifies W max as a thing for Naut. More HP = bigger shield = longer AoE autos On March 15 2015 08:05 Mensol wrote:
I just heard that Irelia got nerfed on PBE.
I was planning to buy her... Irelia's been out forever, she's 4800 IP. Are you really that IP starved? ;; yep i still miss like 30-40 champs. im getting bored way too fast so its hard to farm IP for me. It might be an exploratory nerf. Iirc it's just to stop her from E maxing. Some people think that "better nerf Irelia" has kept her safe from nerfs for a few years. I know every time her nerfs went on PBE they'd be removed before they hit live in the past. If Riot cares that much about pissing people off with unwarranted nerfs, then maybe that's the case. And so they're just trying to see if a small nerf will cause the community to rage before pushing through actual nerfs.
Are Irelia nerfs actually warranted though? Is she actually strong right now? Is she a meta top lane pick?
I'm not questioning you, but I don't actually know myself. What is the top lane meta these days? I don't know at all!
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She isn't in the meta she IS the meta.
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any tips on laning as bard yet? i find it so hard to have presence early levels when e is useless and w takes half your mana for a 70hp heal
i also have no idea which supp item to start with because they all feel useless on him
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On March 15 2015 09:16 Frudgey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2015 08:27 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 15 2015 08:17 Mensol wrote:On March 15 2015 08:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On March 15 2015 08:03 Ketara wrote:
So, Nautilus question #2.
W max is like, the thing, but now with the changes, does E max look better? What changes makes E max on Naut better? If anything, all the HP stack because of Cinderhulk solidifies W max as a thing for Naut. More HP = bigger shield = longer AoE autos On March 15 2015 08:05 Mensol wrote:
I just heard that Irelia got nerfed on PBE.
I was planning to buy her... Irelia's been out forever, she's 4800 IP. Are you really that IP starved? ;; yep i still miss like 30-40 champs. im getting bored way too fast so its hard to farm IP for me. It might be an exploratory nerf. Iirc it's just to stop her from E maxing. Some people think that "better nerf Irelia" has kept her safe from nerfs for a few years. I know every time her nerfs went on PBE they'd be removed before they hit live in the past. If Riot cares that much about pissing people off with unwarranted nerfs, then maybe that's the case. And so they're just trying to see if a small nerf will cause the community to rage before pushing through actual nerfs. Are Irelia nerfs actually warranted though? Is she actually strong right now? Is she a meta top lane pick? I'm not questioning you, but I don't actually know myself. What is the top lane meta these days? I don't know at all!
She's pretty strong right now. Not first pick strong, but she does pretty well. Top lane is a grab bag of Hecarim, Irelia, Maokai, Sion, Lissandra, Lulu, and the occasional Mundo. She probably doesn't deserve a nerf, but people are complaining that Emax is too strong.
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as a non top laner if irelia is maxing e doesn't that take away what makes her irelia (true dmg) and make her easier to play against?
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I think the E damage nerf is a buff due to the fact that if the person she e's got higher % health than her she stuns them and with the damage nerf it will make it easier to do that I think.
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On March 15 2015 10:26 LightningStrike wrote:
I think the E damage nerf is a buff due to the fact that if the person she e's got higher % health than her she stuns them and with the damage nerf it will make it easier to do that I think.
The condition is decided before the damage.
On March 15 2015 10:23 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
as a non top laner if irelia is maxing e doesn't that take away what makes her irelia (true dmg) and make her easier to play against?
Depends. It's generally best to go E max against squishy opponents because in the stun duration you can get more hits off as opposed to a shorter stun and less hits with W max. It's also really nice for setting up ganks, since few laners can provide such a long point and click stun.
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You need to auto 3+ times per stun for W max to outperform E max in a trade iirc. It's not possible against some champions (either because they won't let you reach them, or they'll disengage too fast, like Jayce, Ryze, etc.).
Also a good part of Irelia's damage is still physical, since Hiten Style is on-hit. E is magic damage so it makes yours more mixed.
E has a lower cd than W, so even if you have to use it to disengage, it's still decent damage to not get outtraded too much. Better gank assist. Good frontloaded damage once you have Sheen. It makes for good harass thanks to the cd too.
Also in some match-ups maxing E over W was the only reason you did well (pre-Ryze nerfs it was basically "get your jungler to camp or get utterly fucked from level 1", while E max and MR glyphs+quints actually let Irelia win the lane post-Sheen).
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holy shit, just played ranked as bard. holy shit he's fun :D troll enemies so hard with magical journey. Best way to do it is to bait them with magical journey then shackleshot them to the wall as they exit with you.
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you're pretty much guaranteed 3 hits as irelia if you want to trade with e+auto+q+auto but I guess the point is you get a longer stun so you can just E and run away and spam it without having to fight so they decided to nerf the damage a bit
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You don't want to burn Q like that everytime though.
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wat
gotta use it to improve your shitty csing skills i guess
it doesnt matter if they jump away out of your auto range you can use it and if they don't you can also use it and if you want to last hit creeps it resets the only 2 situations you want it up is during a gank or to creep hop away in which case it was a bad trade anyway
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dude Q costs a shitload of mana to just use on heros
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It's a bit like Olaf's Q. Typical example is against Vlad: you wanna be able to threaten to jump on him anytime because otherwise the fucker will sustain back to full.
If you use Q at the end of W's duration to get 1-2 last instances, then W is on ~9s cd and Q is on 14s cd, so you already prolong your "Q to nearby minion to start the trade"-less window by 5s. You also have to walk back after you use it and he can get a few autos/Qs on you during that.
With Olaf if you send "one last Q" toward him, either you don't pick it up and you give up on zoning potential while it's down, or you go to pick it up and you take free damage (and healing for him) while you walk back to the wave after going farther.
Unless 1-2 autos more really make a big impact, I'd rather be able to zone my opponent because I'm almost immediatly ready to go back in than get a bit of damage that he'll heal during the longer window.
Also champs like Jayce on whom you can't jump if you can't reset Q anyway.
And yeah using Q liberaly just runs Irelia oom. Her mana costs are really low, but her pool is so tiny she can still be very mana intensive before Sheen/Triforce if you trade often.
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Ahh yes, those Vlad matchups you see so often.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Piglet streaming ranked 5's.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On March 15 2015 10:10 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2015 09:16 Frudgey wrote:On March 15 2015 08:27 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 15 2015 08:17 Mensol wrote:On March 15 2015 08:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On March 15 2015 08:03 Ketara wrote:
So, Nautilus question #2.
W max is like, the thing, but now with the changes, does E max look better? What changes makes E max on Naut better? If anything, all the HP stack because of Cinderhulk solidifies W max as a thing for Naut. More HP = bigger shield = longer AoE autos On March 15 2015 08:05 Mensol wrote:
I just heard that Irelia got nerfed on PBE.
I was planning to buy her... Irelia's been out forever, she's 4800 IP. Are you really that IP starved? ;; yep i still miss like 30-40 champs. im getting bored way too fast so its hard to farm IP for me. It might be an exploratory nerf. Iirc it's just to stop her from E maxing. Some people think that "better nerf Irelia" has kept her safe from nerfs for a few years. I know every time her nerfs went on PBE they'd be removed before they hit live in the past. If Riot cares that much about pissing people off with unwarranted nerfs, then maybe that's the case. And so they're just trying to see if a small nerf will cause the community to rage before pushing through actual nerfs. Are Irelia nerfs actually warranted though? Is she actually strong right now? Is she a meta top lane pick? I'm not questioning you, but I don't actually know myself. What is the top lane meta these days? I don't know at all! She's pretty strong right now. Not first pick strong, but she does pretty well. Top lane is a grab bag of Hecarim, Irelia, Maokai, Sion, Lissandra, Lulu, and the occasional Mundo. She probably doesn't deserve a nerf, but people are complaining that Emax is too strong.
Don't forget my 2 favourite ones, Rumble and Kennen
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Apparently a dead enemy Kog'Maw can follow you through Bard E and kill you mid-journey. At least Piglet seems to be having a good time (by which I mean laughing maniacally) :3
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EPT
