On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote: Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game...
5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle.
In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels?
Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta.
They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle.
Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular.
On February 12 2015 10:10 Ketara wrote: I have watched this video, and agree with it, and still don't understand your post.
The jungle is different from the lanes because of the PvE aspect of it. This adds a second layer to jungle balancing that I don't think Riot takes into account when they think about buffing champions. I don't know if it's still the case, but when the jungle came out a lot of people gave up on Kha'zix since he gets beat down pretty hard in the jungle, yet he hasn't seen any rebalancing to aid that. Because of this, even if you put the strong junglers into relative balance to the weaker ones, if the weaker ones still have issues dealing with the jungle it doesn't really help them. If the entire position has issues with the jungle, then the entire position has issues.
Granted, my example could be bullshit. I haven't touched Kha'Zix in a while.
On February 12 2015 10:10 Ketara wrote: I have watched this video, and agree with it, and still don't understand your post.
The jungle is different from the lanes because of the PvE aspect of it. This adds a second layer to jungle balancing that I don't think Riot takes into account when they think about buffing champions. I don't know if it's still the case, but when the jungle came out a lot of people gave up on Kha'zix since he gets beat down pretty hard in the jungle, yet he hasn't seen any rebalancing to aid that. Because of this, even if you put the strong junglers into relative balance to the weaker ones, if the weaker ones still have issues dealing with the jungle it doesn't really help them. If the entire position has issues with the jungle, then the entire position has issues.
Granted, my example could be bullshit. I haven't touched Kha'Zix in a while.
Khaziks just gets dumpstered by J4. But, other than first clear, I find K6 pretty fun to play.
On February 12 2015 10:10 Ketara wrote: I have watched this video, and agree with it, and still don't understand your post.
The jungle is different from the lanes because of the PvE aspect of it. This adds a second layer to jungle balancing that I don't think Riot takes into account when they think about buffing champions. I don't know if it's still the case, but when the jungle came out a lot of people gave up on Kha'zix since he gets beat down pretty hard in the jungle, yet he hasn't seen any rebalancing to aid that. Because of this, even if you put the strong junglers into relative balance to the weaker ones, if the weaker ones still have issues dealing with the jungle it doesn't really help them. If the entire position has issues with the jungle, then the entire position has issues.
Granted, my example could be bullshit. I haven't touched Kha'Zix in a while.
That makes sense, but I don't understand how it's "contrary to Riots balance paradigm". They DO buff champions, pretty much just as often as they nerf them (although I'll concede an argument that Riot buffs are usually small and Riot nerfs are often very big), and they've stated that they know that jungle champions, specifically tank junglers, have a lot of issues with the new jungle right now, that they're working on it, and that there will be jungle changes to address that in 5.4
With a giant sample size of one game, Kennen's stun does feel more consistent after patch. Guess I'll test him out more against the Gnars and Liss of the world.
the Azir changes really annoy me, the dude was OP for sure, and I think he's still going to be decent to mabye even still top tier after these nerfs but I don't like how they nerfed, his spike damage (Q), consistant damage (W range) and tower damage (w) all at the same time, I think it would have been more interesting for them to make his kit more lopsided
like the big problem with Azir is he has amazing damage over time with regular mage burst if he hits you with 2+ statue Q, idk I guess I just never agree with the way riot does things
also of all things they should have nerfed his ward clearing because that is the REAL bullshit.
On February 12 2015 11:12 Slusher wrote: the Azir changes really annoy me, the dude was OP for sure, and I think he's still going to be decent to mabye even still top tier after these nerfs but I don't like how they nerfed, his spike damage (Q), consistant damage (W range) and tower damage (w) all at the same time, I think it would have been more interesting for them to make his kit more lopsided
like the big problem with Azir is he has amazing damage over time with regular mage burst if he hits you with 2+ statue Q, idk I guess I just never agree with the way riot does things
also of all things they should have nerfed his ward clearing because that is the REAL bullshit.
i personally think it was okay to hit all of these cause all of them were bullshit to deal with
On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote: Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game...
5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle.
In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels?
Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta.
They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle.
Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular.
Do you think having the Spirit Stone coming back as an entirely different jungle item build path could help? I don't know how to balance it, but something like Machete gives you the different build types for changing your Smites, while Spirit Stone gives you only basic smite and gives slightly safer/better stats, so you have to choose between having a Smite that helps clear speed or affects team battles or better base stats for a relatively equal cost of gold when compared to Machete build path.
Like Machete goes into the Blade/Sabre/Knife/Trailblazer with the enchantment, while Spirit Stone goes into Elder Lizard/Ancient Golem/Spectral Wraith (though I suppose in new jungle it'd be Brambleback/Krugs/Raptors).
On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote: Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game...
5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle.
In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels?
Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta.
They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle.
Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular.
Do you think having the Spirit Stone coming back as an entirely different jungle item build path could help? I don't know how to balance it, but something like Machete gives you the different build types for changing your Smites, while Spirit Stone gives you only basic smite and gives slightly safer/better stats, so you have to choose between having a Smite that helps clear speed or affects team battles or better base stats for a relatively equal cost of gold when compared to Machete build path.
seems a bit convoluted tbh. I think a bigger issue is the fact that the tank jungle item is pretty shit.
On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote: Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game...
5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle.
In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels?
Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta.
They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle.
Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular.
Do you think having the Spirit Stone coming back as an entirely different jungle item build path could help? I don't know how to balance it, but something like Machete gives you the different build types for changing your Smites, while Spirit Stone gives you only basic smite and gives slightly safer/better stats, so you have to choose between having a Smite that helps clear speed or affects team battles or better base stats for a relatively equal cost of gold when compared to Machete build path.
seems a bit convoluted tbh. I think a bigger issue is the fact that the tank jungle item is pretty shit.
The juggernaut enchantment? Yeah, it seems pretty weak to me... Maybe give it something like a VERY weak slow whenever you hit someone with an AA (like 5% slow) that lasts 2 seconds, or give even more tenacity than normal?
On February 12 2015 12:36 SHr3DD3r wrote: Except that he was still buggy as fuck
He was more clunky(awkward interactions) than buggy I think. I see the pros can play him consistently well, and pull off his combos without messing them up. It's kinda crazy how good some people make him seem.
EPT
