EPT[Patch 5.3] Lunar Revel General Discussion - Page 7
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On February 12 2015 17:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Im going to go ahead and say that just as we speculated before this season started, the first dragon is WAY too strong and snowballs games really hard. Pretty much every "even" solo q game turns into a shit stomp after the first dragon is taken. In my experience it is the exact opposite.Unless you get 4 dragons it doesn't really do anything.Like the stat boost is great an all but most games are decided by other stuff. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 12 2015 17:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Im going to go ahead and say that just as we speculated before this season started, the first dragon is WAY too strong and snowballs games really hard. Pretty much every "even" solo q game turns into a shit stomp after the first dragon is taken. I honestly don't think it's that strong. I mean it is a definite DPS boost but also the team that's got more control of the game is also more likely to take the first dragon, and the team that's in control of the game and also gets the first dragon should basically be more likely to win. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 12 2015 12:56 101toss wrote: the winrate chart indicates that azir isn't even good in solo q malzahar looks like the best champion currently for solo q Malzahar looks like a champion only a a few people, who also happen to know how to play him, play. And I echo the sentiment about Azir's ult. TBH I wouldn't mind utility ults having shit damage if their power makes up for it. Not giving Kalista's ult damage was a step in that direction. Imagine removing the damage from Amumu's ult in exchange for a bigger zone and moving the duration to 3 seconds. That'd be crazy. Of course you have to weight it against the rest of the kit. Malphite would need massive buffs to his other abilities if his ult didn't do damage because most of his contribution is that ranged AoE knock-up and the point-blank AS slow. But Azir has almost as much burst as a standard mage (his ratio on 2 soldiers-Q + free 2 autos from the slow is a bit above 2, the base damage is lower by a few hundreds but he can deal as much damage as some champs' full combos on a 6-7s cd), and crazy sustained damage. I wouldn't mind seeing the damage from his Q gutted down (or at least in a way where it does less damage than your standard nuke, even with 2 soldiers) in exchange for a lower cooldown, and his current attack radius. This way he can't just hurl his soldiers and take a dump on you: he has to reposition them, the way a non-Kog/Trist marksman does to chase retreating people, etc. atm he Qs and you have to run waaay away to not get chunked (and if you eat the slow you still do) while he doesn't have to expose himself that much. I'd want Azir to be super vulnerable if he blows E and R. Using his ult offensively is fine, don't get me wrong, but if you choose to initiate with it then you're susceptible to dives. For me he should be using Q to reposition his soldiers to stay in range of people, not chunk them, and deal sustained damage. E is a mobility spell that should be used like Trist's: you can go in with it and chase, but then maybe you'll get cc'd and exploded. TL;DR: As is, once he hits an item threshold all he needs to do is WWQ, 2 autos, run till Q comes back off cd. He can do more (much more) but he doesn't have to do it and this is wrong with his initial design. Kinda like how Zed could do all these neat tricks and high skillcap and such but it didn't matter because skill floor was low as fuck and facerolling was enough, for 2-3 patches. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On February 12 2015 18:46 Alaric wrote: Imagine removing the damage from Amumu's ult in exchange for a bigger zone and moving the duration to 3 seconds. That'd be crazy. ... Malphite would need massive buffs to his other abilities if his ult didn't do damage because most of his contribution is that ranged AoE knock-up and the point-blank AS slow. Somewhat tangential, but how do people feel about hypothetical abilities that do 0 base damage, but still have AP scaling? Otherwise I feel like the removal of damage from a lot of utility ults would really cram a lot of utility champions into utility-and-nothing-else in the form of pre-s3 supports and completely remove non-joke carry item options (some AP as opposed to like triple PD). | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You can work around AD/HP ratios (less so for armour/MR but still doable) because of the difference between base and total value. See how aggressively the base damage on Pantheon's Q scales compared to Urgot's, for example, and the difference in base damage, because these are not the same ratio. There are other considerations (cd, range, other spells in the kit, etc.) but you don't gain much from leveling Urgot's Q just because it already gains damage from levels, and keeps scaling once maxed (reason why maxing Q first on Viktor is baaaad now unless you want to bully a melee with the cd, and even then). You don't have "base AP", so total and bonus ratio are the same. If you put a weak ratio people won't want to build AP on the champ. It's still a small buff if the champ already buys AP (buffing AP ratios on Irelia won't make her stack it but still a buff 'cause Triforce for example), and a way Riot already used to nudge some tanky champs a bit. If you put a strong ratio, unless very lopsided kit (GAREN Q NOW 0.7 AP RATIO, WOOT) people will stack AP and it's going to be silly (see release Rengar and Aatrox). It'll also be weaker than most spells until you have enough AP that the superior ratio offsets the deficit in base damage. That's not something Riot would want, remember how they hate the sharp power curves (Pantheon gets dunked by too many people in top lane now, but what he did in season 2 if you wanted to play dive-heavy/assassin style is typically what Riot guts). I wish they would play around more incentives to level skills in their design, eg. not only cooldown/damage/cc duration/slow% but also stuff like range, AoE radius, etc. I find it interesting how Udyr's mana costs actually decrease with levels while old Sona's increased. WW's E is interesting. Xin's E/Q to line up cooldowns, etc. It's not in their design philosophy though, because it wouldn't be intuitive to new players what to max/build and despite the bullshit they pull off sometimes this is the kind of "clarity" they won't back down on. Same reason you could make a champ with a super oppressive laning and gate it with levels (more or less what Syndra's passive could do: Q is big poke and crazy range, but you could make it mediocre damage or tamer range, and put it to current levels as the passive's bonus, kinda what they did by hitting Q's damage when they nerfed her; they also did it with Gnar but it's "passive" and they fully control it because it's in small increases in range and MS over 17 levels), but Riot won't do it because "burden of knowledge". If the spell if obvious maxed-first for a solo laner, they may think you hit 9 too early, especially if you snowball your lane and get a 1-2 levels advantage. If it's not, then you have to know what the spell does, then guess whether it's being maxed first or second, arguably too "hard" for their targeted player-base. But I'd be happy to see more flexibility. That's one of the things that fascinates me in DotA actually, the decision-making in doing X or Y skill build, and how level scaling isn't linear (atm. there aren't many spells in LoL that do that apart from Syndra's kit, and Renekton's and Singed's ults). | ||
739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 12 2015 17:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Im going to go ahead and say that just as we speculated before this season started, the first dragon is WAY too strong and snowballs games really hard. Pretty much every "even" solo q game turns into a shit stomp after the first dragon is taken. Ye, 6% damage and ap is so broken 10 minutes in. Literally can't fight against 3 extra damage. I guess, offensive masteries are broken as fuck then as well. How dare they give someone ability to have free 5% extra damage? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 12 2015 16:33 krndandaman wrote: hm I remember some point in s3 having decent jungle diversity though, I was pretty new to the game then so I don't remember why. it was around when nasus jungle got popularized by diamondprox and unstoppable meteos zac was a thing. I played a ton of those 2 back then. I also remember alot of the usual vi, lee sin, jarvan, elise, evelynn, etc. but I don't remember a time after that where tank junglers like zac/nasus were considered good in competitive. ZAC was just objectively overpowered. He did huge damage with sick sustain and long range engage. Nasus was pretty much the same, he just couldn't go top in competitive because of Renekton. Basically had good clear speed plus the old wither which was amazing. Still wasn't piqued much in Korea though... | ||
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RaphaelSanzio
United States150 Posts
On February 12 2015 17:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Im going to go ahead and say that just as we speculated before this season started, the first dragon is WAY too strong and snowballs games really hard. Pretty much every "even" solo q game turns into a shit stomp after the first dragon is taken. Confirmation bias | ||
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Cheese Tonkatsu
Spain20 Posts
Funnily enough in yesterday's series they got the 5.2 patch I think and IM banned Nidalee in two out of three games, which I'm guessing is because they're scared of her jungling. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On February 12 2015 23:44 Cheese Tonkatsu wrote: I don't know if it's the same in other regions, but OGN is pretty boring to watch jungle-wise. It's just Lee Sin vs J4, except the odd Rek'Sai that is left out unbanned. Funnily enough in yesterday's series they got the 5.2 patch I think and IM banned Nidalee in two out of three games, which I'm guessing is because they're scared of her jungling. Meh it's the same in every region. Nunu pops up occasionally, people dabble with Vi/Elise, and that's about it for jungle ~_~ Some of the lower ranked LMS teams I see occasionally pick stuff like Rengar but they don't really win with it so who knows. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On February 12 2015 17:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Im going to go ahead and say that just as we speculated before this season started, the first dragon is WAY too strong and snowballs games really hard. Pretty much every "even" solo q game turns into a shit stomp after the first dragon is taken. The first dragon buff is big but it's not big until late in the game, when you've got enough items to make +6% like 1000g worth of stats. When you take a super early dragon it might be giving somebody like, 4 AP, that's not a huge deal. When dragon is huge is when one team has lots of them and the other team doesn't have any. If it's 40 minutes and team A has 4 dragons and team B has zero, dragon becomes more important than baron or maybe even inhibitors. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
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