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Fiddles is such a monster right now.
Not only does he farm safely, but he actually does it pretty fast now a days, comparatively because he can just do a full clear. It also isn't really scary to pick him and not gank ever till 6 unless you have free kills with guaranteed no wards because straight up no one else can really gank much any more. Its not like Season 3/4 where a LeeSin can gank 10 times pre 6, get no kills and still be only 400 - 500 gold behind. That Lee with no successful ganks now is 1-2 levels lower than you and like 1500 gold behind.
I find he makes the other team tryhard a bit to get and keep vision, but eventually you get that one ult that is just disgusting regardless and win the game off of it.
That and his Dragon / Baron pressure is ridiculous. Can Solo drake when it spawns all game, can 2 man Baron when it spawns so long as he has one person there with him auto attacking, doesn't even have to be an AD. Could be like a Level 6 Leona and he can do it NP. Even if they have vision, you just can force them to give up lane pressure which can often time just straight up win you lanes so hard. Played 10 games straight fiddles, seen probably 5 top laner TP down for Dragon fights that just never happen cause Fiddles can stall and play that game for hours like 5 times, to which our top laner just kind of lols and pushes 3 waves into the tower and collects his free lane.
Crowstorming into fountain BM is also very very entertaining.
CAWCAWCAW FUCK YOU! YOUR AD CARRY CANT SHOOT AND YOUR ASSASSIN (oh, probably your Support and tank too, no big deal) IS SILENCED BWAHAHAHA. (oh and your whole damn team takes ~2.6k Damage or is 100% zoned from the fight, no big deal)
^_^
Makes me happy, Fiddlesticks was my first true main, the champion that made me decide to be a jungler.
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On February 12 2015 12:15 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 12:11 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 12:08 Kinie wrote:On February 12 2015 09:37 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 09:17 Kinie wrote:On February 12 2015 07:36 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote:
Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game... 5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle. In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels? Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta. They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle. Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular. Do you think having the Spirit Stone coming back as an entirely different jungle item build path could help? I don't know how to balance it, but something like Machete gives you the different build types for changing your Smites, while Spirit Stone gives you only basic smite and gives slightly safer/better stats, so you have to choose between having a Smite that helps clear speed or affects team battles or better base stats for a relatively equal cost of gold when compared to Machete build path. seems a bit convoluted tbh. I think a bigger issue is the fact that the tank jungle item is pretty shit. The juggernaut enchantment? Yeah, it seems pretty weak to me... Maybe give it something like a VERY weak slow whenever you hit someone with an AA (like 5% slow) that lasts 2 seconds, or give even more tenacity than normal?
The biggest problem is the other jungle items decrease your jungle clear time.
It's the only jungle item that doesn't. Making it impossible for the jungler to scale at the same rate gold-income wise vs his heavier hitting counterparts.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 12 2015 13:06 iCanada wrote:
Fiddles is such a monster right now.
Not only does he farm safely, but he actually does it pretty fast now a days, comparatively because he can just do a full clear. It also isn't really scary to pick him and not gank ever till 6 unless you have free kills with guaranteed no wards because straight up no one else can really gank much any more. Its not like Season 3/4 where a LeeSin can gank 10 times pre 6, get no kills and still be only 400 - 500 gold behind. That Lee with no successful ganks now is 1-2 levels lower than you and like 1500 gold behind.
I find he makes the other team tryhard a bit to get and keep vision, but eventually you get that one ult that is just disgusting regardless and win the game off of it.
That and his Dragon / Baron pressure is ridiculous. Can Solo drake when it spawns all game, can 2 man Baron when it spawns so long as he has one person there with him auto attacking, doesn't even have to be an AD. Could be like a Level 6 Leona and he can do it NP. Even if they have vision, you just can force them to give up lane pressure which can often time just straight up win you lanes so hard. Played 10 games straight fiddles, seen probably 5 top laner TP down for Dragon fights that just never happen cause Fiddles can stall and play that game for hours like 5 times, to which our top laner just kind of lols and pushes 3 waves into the tower and collects his free lane.
Crowstorming into fountain BM is also very very entertaining.
CAWCAWCAW FUCK YOU! YOUR AD CARRY CANT SHOOT AND YOUR ASSASSIN (oh, probably your Support and tank too, no big deal) IS SILENCED BWAHAHAHA. (oh and your whole damn team takes ~2.6k Damage or is 100% zoned from the fight, no big deal)
^_^
Makes me happy, Fiddlesticks was my first true main, the champion that made me decide to be a jungler.
said with a Panth flair~
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On February 12 2015 12:56 101toss wrote:
the winrate chart indicates that azir isn't even good in solo q
malzahar looks like the best champion currently for solo q
the winrate chart is a terrible indicator of relative character strength because of multiple other things that influence a characters winrate.
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On February 12 2015 12:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 12:08 Kinie wrote:On February 12 2015 09:37 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 09:17 Kinie wrote:On February 12 2015 07:36 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 05:33 joohyunee wrote:
Is it just me or is the meta getting a bit stale across all the regions? I feel like 5.2 took out a lot of the viable champs and replaced them with a few.. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing gnar/kass/corki/leona every game... 5.2 is actually pretty solid right now in terms of lane variety, especially cross regional competitive play. The only role that seems to be fairly limited in competitive right now is jungle. In your opinion, is the reason why jungle seems limited in terms of competitive champion pool because of the meta, design changes (read: nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, the loss of Spirit Stone as a jungle item, or the fact that the new jungle is very lethal/damaging in the first few levels? Personally, I feel it's 50% lethality of jungle in first few minutes, 30% loss of Spirit Stone, 15% design change (ie., nerfs) to previous competitive junglers, and 5% meta. They're all tied to the lethality of jungle. loss of spirit stone = increased lethality of jungle. nerfs make it harder for champs to do jungle = increased lethality of jungle. Meta hasn't really changed tho, J4/Vi/Lee Sin were all fairly popular jungle picks in s4 as well. J4 was more of a tier 2 pick if bans came in, but still somewhat popular. Do you think having the Spirit Stone coming back as an entirely different jungle item build path could help? I don't know how to balance it, but something like Machete gives you the different build types for changing your Smites, while Spirit Stone gives you only basic smite and gives slightly safer/better stats, so you have to choose between having a Smite that helps clear speed or affects team battles or better base stats for a relatively equal cost of gold when compared to Machete build path. seems a bit convoluted tbh. I think a bigger issue is the fact that the tank jungle item is pretty shit.
I think it's on par. It's gold efficient and provides tenacity. What more could you want?
People who might want Jugg first are just a bit weak now since the meta is about damage junglers that can dive and kill carries. And everyone's picking up magus and warrior for faster clears.
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In terms of tanky stats and cost efficiency, Juggernaut is real good.
The problem with it is that, in general, even tanks want their first item to do damage. What do you build first on that Maokai or Renekton or whatever? Rod of Ages, Sunfire, Tiamat for pushing maybe, etc. These items give you damage. Even something like a Frozen Heart first gives you damage through 20% CDR and mana.
Aside from 10% CDR, the Juggernaut enchant doesn't give you damage, the exception being Sejuani who can rush it just fine because 500 HP to her is a damage item.
So while a ganking jungler can rush Warrior, which gives damage so it not only makes his ganks scarier but it also makes his clear faster, a tank jungler rushing Juggernaut doesn't get anything that improves their already shit clear until they start building a second item.
Unless you're Sejuani.
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I think they should give Juggernaut the old Spirit stone +X% additional Damage to monsters. Make it so a tank buying it can still farm without being buried in gold compared to someone who got an offensive enchant.
On February 12 2015 13:12 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 13:06 iCanada wrote:
Fiddles is such a monster right now.
Not only does he farm safely, but he actually does it pretty fast now a days, comparatively because he can just do a full clear. It also isn't really scary to pick him and not gank ever till 6 unless you have free kills with guaranteed no wards because straight up no one else can really gank much any more. Its not like Season 3/4 where a LeeSin can gank 10 times pre 6, get no kills and still be only 400 - 500 gold behind. That Lee with no successful ganks now is 1-2 levels lower than you and like 1500 gold behind.
I find he makes the other team tryhard a bit to get and keep vision, but eventually you get that one ult that is just disgusting regardless and win the game off of it.
That and his Dragon / Baron pressure is ridiculous. Can Solo drake when it spawns all game, can 2 man Baron when it spawns so long as he has one person there with him auto attacking, doesn't even have to be an AD. Could be like a Level 6 Leona and he can do it NP. Even if they have vision, you just can force them to give up lane pressure which can often time just straight up win you lanes so hard. Played 10 games straight fiddles, seen probably 5 top laner TP down for Dragon fights that just never happen cause Fiddles can stall and play that game for hours like 5 times, to which our top laner just kind of lols and pushes 3 waves into the tower and collects his free lane.
Crowstorming into fountain BM is also very very entertaining.
CAWCAWCAW FUCK YOU! YOUR AD CARRY CANT SHOOT AND YOUR ASSASSIN (oh, probably your Support and tank too, no big deal) IS SILENCED BWAHAHAHA. (oh and your whole damn team takes ~2.6k Damage or is 100% zoned from the fight, no big deal)
^_^
Makes me happy, Fiddlesticks was my first true main, the champion that made me decide to be a jungler. said with a Panth flair~
:D
Stopped playing Fiddle because it was all the rage to hard counterjungle fiddlesticks and Mid Season 2 Mid lane would take Wolves / Wraiths on Spawn so it was kind of just derpy to pick Fiddles. You'd have no farm, be underleveled all game, and get outganked all day erryday. Some dickhead Udyr would hunt you all day. Was hard life man. I think he was un-viable for most of it. Not totally awful, just really easy to counter
Hard not to pick Mantheon up though when Smash and Loci would stream 20 games in a row with him each every day and hard carry all day. He was pretty much my go to "crap I can't play jungle.." pick. Panth probably my favorite in the whole pool, hence the flair.
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On February 12 2015 12:56 101toss wrote:
the winrate chart indicates that azir isn't even good in solo q
malzahar looks like the best champion currently for solo q
shhhhhhhhhhhhh
his ult suppresses him and he autopushes so he's really bad remember
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On February 12 2015 10:42 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 10:29 Gahlo wrote:On February 12 2015 10:10 Ketara wrote:
I have watched this video, and agree with it, and still don't understand your post. The jungle is different from the lanes because of the PvE aspect of it. This adds a second layer to jungle balancing that I don't think Riot takes into account when they think about buffing champions. I don't know if it's still the case, but when the jungle came out a lot of people gave up on Kha'zix since he gets beat down pretty hard in the jungle, yet he hasn't seen any rebalancing to aid that. Because of this, even if you put the strong junglers into relative balance to the weaker ones, if the weaker ones still have issues dealing with the jungle it doesn't really help them. If the entire position has issues with the jungle, then the entire position has issues. Granted, my example could be bullshit. I haven't touched Kha'Zix in a while. That makes sense, but I don't understand how it's "contrary to Riots balance paradigm". They DO buff champions, pretty much just as often as they nerf them (although I'll concede an argument that Riot buffs are usually small and Riot nerfs are often very big), and they've stated that they know that jungle champions, specifically tank junglers, have a lot of issues with the new jungle right now, that they're working on it, and that there will be jungle changes to address that in 5.4
See, that's the thing. Tank junglers have been having severe issues in the jungle for a while and they rarely do more than baby step things. The 4 junglers they pointed out were Sejuani, Maokai, Zac, and Nautilus. Sejuani is better, but suffers from Xerath syndrome of good but under utilized ontop of having to contend with the much cheaper Amumu in niche. Maokai just skipped town, said fuck you jungle, and moved to top lane. Meanwhile, bot Zac and Nautilus have seen no great improvement overtly like Maokai or covertly like Sejuani.
This has been an issue that they've been trying to implement fixes for since 4.11 and are still, assuming they get it right this time, a patch away. Meanwhile you have things like Ahri and Fizz getting changes right away when DFG goes out the door to try to tide over the transition with Veigar not being far behind.
Jungle is most often the most constrained position and is the one that they are the slowest to do anything about if it doesn't fit the "nerf it until it's comparable" balance method.
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I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions.
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On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions.
You mean Rito approved junglers? lol.
that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it"
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On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it"
historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game
-ap yi
-ap tyrnd
-ap sion
-top lane udyr
-mid lane alistar
-AP rengar
probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah
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Apparently I'm a bad person, I thought all that shit was fun.
lol.
AP Sion es king. AP tryn was pretty awesome too.
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On February 12 2015 15:07 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it" historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game -ap yi -ap tyrnd -ap sion -top lane udyr -mid lane alistar -AP rengar probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah
I think you mean jungle alistar.
And all that shit is hilariously fun.
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On February 12 2015 15:22 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 15:07 Frolossus wrote:On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it" historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game -ap yi -ap tyrnd -ap sion -top lane udyr -mid lane alistar -AP rengar probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah I think you mean jungle alistar. And all that shit is hilariously fun.
jungle ali wasn't as problematic as glass AP alistar which could blow up half your team and never die cause ali ult
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On February 12 2015 15:28 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 15:22 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 15:07 Frolossus wrote:On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it" historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game -ap yi -ap tyrnd -ap sion -top lane udyr -mid lane alistar -AP rengar probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah I think you mean jungle alistar. And all that shit is hilariously fun. jungle ali wasn't as problematic as glass AP alistar which could blow up half your team and never die cause ali ult
Yup, I still remember that stupid ap wow mid back in season 1. Want to cs? nope get headbutted. Oh and lose like a quarter of your hp while your at it.
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On February 12 2015 12:50 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 12:36 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that he was still buggy as fuck He was more clunky(awkward interactions) than buggy I think. I see the pros can play him consistently well, and pull off his combos without messing them up. It's kinda crazy how good some people make him seem.
His EQ, would sometimes not go through. And his ultimate interaction with walls was so stupid. Enemies would bounce back into me. Pls
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On February 12 2015 15:07 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it" historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game -ap yi -ap tyrnd -ap sion -top lane udyr -mid lane alistar -AP rengar probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah
You forgot my favorite, AP Top Soraka.
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
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On February 12 2015 15:39 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 15:07 Frolossus wrote:On February 12 2015 14:55 wei2coolman wrote:On February 12 2015 14:43 Ketara wrote:
I think that's because they're super scared that if they buff a jungler too much, people will stop jungling with it and take it top lane to fuck that all up.
Which is historically exactly what happens.
I guess what I don't understand is why they can't be like "Okay, these 6ish champions are champs we want to see in the jungle, who people don't jungle because they can't clear" and give each one bonus damage to jungle monsters on a skill. That wouldn't affect ANYTHING but the clear speed of those specific champions. You mean Rito approved junglers? lol. that's such lame way to go about it, but it would totally be the rito way of doing it. They're too focused on role specific champions and less so "lets make cool champ, and let community decide how they want to play it" historically letting people decide how to play a character has been cancer to the game -ap yi -ap tyrnd -ap sion -top lane udyr -mid lane alistar -AP rengar probably a lot more stuff that could go in this list but yeah You forgot my favorite, AP Top Soraka. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
I can't believe I'm defending wei2coolman here, but he did say 'lets make a cool champ' before 'and let the community decide how they want to play it.' Most of the mega cancerous shit wasn't cool or creative or fun(well, in a way crushing a game can always be fun, but you know what I really mean).
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EPT
