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[Patch 4.21] Rek'Sai General Discussion - Page 74

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Starting Page 94 spamming will in GD will be warned, please don't post for the sake of post count. Keep it civil.

Please take website feedback to http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/website-feedback/
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 03 2015 02:44 GMT
#1461
On January 03 2015 11:34 Slusher wrote:
I get the feeling like Gozo doesn't know he's quoting an LCS owner/manager lol

so what you're saying is gtrsrs no balls ?
liftlift > tsm
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
January 03 2015 02:46 GMT
#1462
On January 03 2015 11:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 11:34 Slusher wrote:
I get the feeling like Gozo doesn't know he's quoting an LCS owner/manager lol

so what you're saying is gtrsrs no balls ?

More like people spouting like they know what they're talking about right after somebody that actually knows makes a valid statement.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
January 03 2015 03:08 GMT
#1463
On January 03 2015 07:18 GozoShioda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 04:06 gtrsrs wrote:
On January 02 2015 19:01 RouaF wrote:
Are american players that bad that you need to recruit wizfujin when you have an lcs spot ? Like wth there are hundred thousands people playing this game in NA and out of them wizfujin is the best pick they can have ?


there are tons of factors that go into picking a player
for example, due to the relegation system, there's huge risk involved with using an untested player. in the LCS, you don't get to just burn a season and say "we're rebuilding" because then you lose your spot to hungry challenger players. wizfujiin is ironically a prime example of that - coast picked up a player that showed tons of skill in a non-competitive environment, but didn't pan out competitively. in the end, they were relegated. so despite wiz's relatively underwhelming showing in the LCS, LMQ at least has an idea of what they're getting into with picking him. maybe they feel they can easily address his stage jitters or maybe they feel he's grown out of them. either way, in their eyes, it's less risky than picking up RandomChallenger23472 off the ladder.
another big factor outside of skill is attitude/work ethic. i can personally attest that wiz is one of the harder working players in the league. he's also a super, super nice dude, and i think that's pretty well-known in the LCS community. so again, you can risk it on SoloQRager218 because he *might* be a godlike player, or you just stick to someone who isn't gonna blow up your team internally.
there's also an issue of players being tied to contracts on challenger teams. as organizations realize the value of an LCS spot, they also realize the value of retaining their players so they have a shot at getting into the LCS. so maybe LMQ wanted to go after nientonsoh, but he's still contracted to fusion and fusion doesn't want to let him go.


The only issue in western eSports is that the players run these organizations. The owners/managers/coaches have no backbone or balls at all to lay down the law out of fear of retribution from said players.

I guess another flaw with western eSports is that 90% of it's players are a bunch of streamers pretending to be professional gamers. Hopefully the streamer bubble pops soon but that's unlikely to happen for a while.


90% of its players are streamers pretending to be professional gamers...? Like, what does this even mean?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
January 03 2015 03:24 GMT
#1464
On January 03 2015 12:08 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 07:18 GozoShioda wrote:
On January 03 2015 04:06 gtrsrs wrote:
On January 02 2015 19:01 RouaF wrote:
Are american players that bad that you need to recruit wizfujin when you have an lcs spot ? Like wth there are hundred thousands people playing this game in NA and out of them wizfujin is the best pick they can have ?


there are tons of factors that go into picking a player
for example, due to the relegation system, there's huge risk involved with using an untested player. in the LCS, you don't get to just burn a season and say "we're rebuilding" because then you lose your spot to hungry challenger players. wizfujiin is ironically a prime example of that - coast picked up a player that showed tons of skill in a non-competitive environment, but didn't pan out competitively. in the end, they were relegated. so despite wiz's relatively underwhelming showing in the LCS, LMQ at least has an idea of what they're getting into with picking him. maybe they feel they can easily address his stage jitters or maybe they feel he's grown out of them. either way, in their eyes, it's less risky than picking up RandomChallenger23472 off the ladder.
another big factor outside of skill is attitude/work ethic. i can personally attest that wiz is one of the harder working players in the league. he's also a super, super nice dude, and i think that's pretty well-known in the LCS community. so again, you can risk it on SoloQRager218 because he *might* be a godlike player, or you just stick to someone who isn't gonna blow up your team internally.
there's also an issue of players being tied to contracts on challenger teams. as organizations realize the value of an LCS spot, they also realize the value of retaining their players so they have a shot at getting into the LCS. so maybe LMQ wanted to go after nientonsoh, but he's still contracted to fusion and fusion doesn't want to let him go.


The only issue in western eSports is that the players run these organizations. The owners/managers/coaches have no backbone or balls at all to lay down the law out of fear of retribution from said players.

I guess another flaw with western eSports is that 90% of it's players are a bunch of streamers pretending to be professional gamers. Hopefully the streamer bubble pops soon but that's unlikely to happen for a while.


90% of its players are streamers pretending to be professional gamers...? Like, what does this even mean?


It means we're probably not going to hear from Gozo for a while.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 03 2015 03:32 GMT
#1465
On January 03 2015 12:08 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 07:18 GozoShioda wrote:
On January 03 2015 04:06 gtrsrs wrote:
On January 02 2015 19:01 RouaF wrote:
Are american players that bad that you need to recruit wizfujin when you have an lcs spot ? Like wth there are hundred thousands people playing this game in NA and out of them wizfujin is the best pick they can have ?


there are tons of factors that go into picking a player
for example, due to the relegation system, there's huge risk involved with using an untested player. in the LCS, you don't get to just burn a season and say "we're rebuilding" because then you lose your spot to hungry challenger players. wizfujiin is ironically a prime example of that - coast picked up a player that showed tons of skill in a non-competitive environment, but didn't pan out competitively. in the end, they were relegated. so despite wiz's relatively underwhelming showing in the LCS, LMQ at least has an idea of what they're getting into with picking him. maybe they feel they can easily address his stage jitters or maybe they feel he's grown out of them. either way, in their eyes, it's less risky than picking up RandomChallenger23472 off the ladder.
another big factor outside of skill is attitude/work ethic. i can personally attest that wiz is one of the harder working players in the league. he's also a super, super nice dude, and i think that's pretty well-known in the LCS community. so again, you can risk it on SoloQRager218 because he *might* be a godlike player, or you just stick to someone who isn't gonna blow up your team internally.
there's also an issue of players being tied to contracts on challenger teams. as organizations realize the value of an LCS spot, they also realize the value of retaining their players so they have a shot at getting into the LCS. so maybe LMQ wanted to go after nientonsoh, but he's still contracted to fusion and fusion doesn't want to let him go.


The only issue in western eSports is that the players run these organizations. The owners/managers/coaches have no backbone or balls at all to lay down the law out of fear of retribution from said players.

I guess another flaw with western eSports is that 90% of it's players are a bunch of streamers pretending to be professional gamers. Hopefully the streamer bubble pops soon but that's unlikely to happen for a while.


90% of its players are streamers pretending to be professional gamers...? Like, what does this even mean?

Isn't it by definition that streamers are professional players? they get paid to play...
liftlift > tsm
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 04:24:29
January 03 2015 04:20 GMT
#1466
Isn't it kind of clear what he's trying to say?

his point is a lot of western players put more time/effort into streaming (and get more of their income from it) then they put into practicing/investing time in LCS. The definition of professional gamer here meaning someone who's focus is all on tournaments, and the definition of streamer being someone who's focus is on streaming.

Whether that's true or not is obviously up for debate, but being purposefully obtuse doesn't really help the discussion -.-
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 04:25:47
January 03 2015 04:24 GMT
#1467
Interesting.

For those that care I recently made a bet with a friend that I'd make it back to diamond after dropping out by tomorrowish
My full match history.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA/39467469

I've essentially played these champions:
Top: Rumble - Never banned/picked away from me
Jungle: J4 - Lee Sin backup
Mid: Orianna - Ahri backup
AD: Graves - Caitlyn/lucian backup - 6-1 with graves
Support: Thresh/Nami

(I had dropped 300-350ish mmr per op.gg, down to ~1750s after internet went into the dumpster) My winrate is currently 14-6 over the last 20 games and I'm at 53 points plat I from a low of ~20 points plat II.

I have until my friend gets back into town tomorrow to hit diamond - I need to be +5 wins over losses to hit diamond or I owe her bubble tea.

Assuming I don't get too tired it should be possible, and assuming I win my series the first run through.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 04:30:22
January 03 2015 04:29 GMT
#1468
I got what he meant I just thought it was funny that he called LCS owners spineless whilst quoting one.

I mean in a way I agree with the sentiment(that recycling is annoying from a viewer standpoint), but I also understand how much money is at stake from gtrs perspective.
Carrilord has arrived.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 04:57:58
January 03 2015 04:52 GMT
#1469
--- Nuked ---
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 03 2015 04:53 GMT
#1470
I was thinking that for a moment too. zz
who cares about diamond during preseason anyways, l0l
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 03 2015 04:57 GMT
#1471
On January 03 2015 13:52 krndandaman wrote:
dude just lose the bet, free bubble tea date


it's a win win for him.
if he loses bet, he get bubble tea date.
if he wins bet, girl likes him cuz everyone knows, chicks dig elo.
liftlift > tsm
TheHumanSensation
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1210 Posts
January 03 2015 05:03 GMT
#1472
Bubble tea is like minimum $5 in vancouver, defs not free. Conquer league and friendship with brute force
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
January 03 2015 05:05 GMT
#1473
On January 03 2015 13:52 krndandaman wrote:
dude just lose the bet, free bubble tea date

Show nested quote +
On January 03 2015 13:29 Slusher wrote:
I got what he meant I just thought it was funny that he called LCS owners spineless whilst quoting one.

I mean in a way I agree with the sentiment(that recycling is annoying from a viewer standpoint), but I also understand how much money is at stake from gtrs perspective.


personality/work ethic is probably the key factor. its something us outsiders can't really evaluate/know while the the insiders (pros, coaches, owners, managers, etc.) do.

That's what I've been saying for days now.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
January 03 2015 05:28 GMT
#1474
Am I the only one who had to look up what bubble tea is?

Also on Wizfujin, didn't most of his solo queue success come from playing Varus? While Varus is fine generally, he is/was considered a tier below the competitive ADC choices, so his 'talent' didn't really translate into the competitive scene? Might be mistaken though.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 03 2015 05:30 GMT
#1475
Probably. It's a very west coast/asian sort of fud. Bubble tea, milktea, boba, etc.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
January 03 2015 05:35 GMT
#1476
--- Nuked ---
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
January 03 2015 05:55 GMT
#1477
dude used to play a lot of old mf too
Carrilord has arrived.
GozoShioda
Profile Joined October 2013
205 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 05:56:54
January 03 2015 05:55 GMT
#1478
On January 03 2015 13:29 Slusher wrote:
I got what he meant I just thought it was funny that he called LCS owners spineless whilst quoting one.

I mean in a way I agree with the sentiment(that recycling is annoying from a viewer standpoint), but I also understand how much money is at stake from gtrs perspective.


There's a specific reason I quoted him.
He along with the rest of management in NA are a joke.

Didn't Helios say he played more ranked games in a month than Innox did in all of one Season?
Didn't all the ex CLG.EU guys live in the gaming house for a while after they got replaced?
Didn't EG players stream quite a bit during the upcoming weeks in preparation towards relegation? (which by the way they've been in that spot twice.)
I could go on for quite a while and that's just EG, don't even get me started on CLG/DIG/TSM and the rest of the streamer crew.


Maybe I didn't express myself properly (and that's my fault). There is absolutely nothing wrong with what is happening in NA. As long as your goal is to make money through this concept of "personality" and marketing, then everything is perfectly fine since at the end of the day this is a business after all. NA teams are making bank through sponsor exposure and streaming. They don't need results. That's why guys like him and the rest of NA management have become complacent. There is no need to deliver results when you can just deliver the bare minimum of staying in the highest exposure avenue for your sponsors (LCS).

However, if the mentality and procedures that exist in NA were to be used in a place like Korea, well then good luck, you won't survive for more than a week. The staff in KR teams wouldn't put up with the bullshit that plagues NA teams.
NA players have no fear of being cut the moment they hit 5k+ viewers on twitch. The coaches in NA (Scarra/Loco for example) spend time streaming. I don't recall ever in my life hearing of KkOma or Reach streaming solo queue games because they are actually doing something called COACHING. The Najin organization has probably had more roster swaps in one year than all of the LCS teams put together have in the same timespan. If you're bad in Korea, tough luck, you get replaced and hopefully you return when you prove that you are still capable of providing results. If you're bad in NA, you'll get benched after maybe 2 splits, but if you're streaming to 10k+ viewers then you have absolutely nothing to fear in the job security department because if a big bad man manager like guitar tries to get rid of you for the sake of improving the team's results, all you have to do is give daddy Garfield/Dinh/Georgallidis a call that you're being bullied. We can't have that happening, can we?

GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-03 06:13:02
January 03 2015 06:11 GMT
#1479
Am I one of the only people who thinks spamming ranked games is a horrific measure of dedication? And that if your idea of "training" is playing ranked a lot, you're not really going to get much better? I feel like we need to shake off that mindset because it has a seriously negative impact.

I know we had a similar discussion recently, but this is a little different because its referring specifically to the pro level, where I think there are massively diminishing returns on spamming games. Sure, you have to play a lot to reach challenger, but comparing someone's games played to someone else's as a comparison of dedication or work ethic seems really flawed.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
January 03 2015 06:39 GMT
#1480
well I mean history has shown that a majority of the star players solo q a lot.
Carrilord has arrived.
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