EPT[Patch 4.21] Rek'Sai General Discussion - Page 53
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On December 27 2014 18:39 Volband wrote: Hm, to be fair, you can never achieve complete safety with just two wards. But you can be safer than the ward positions that are suggested in this guide. (And the guide even claims "With the ' Double Decker' plan, you can protect yourself from practically every conceivable gank.") You can easily place wards so that you can only get laneganked if you place the river ward in a way that covers the dragon pit (for red side at least, blue side has to worry about the grass right next to the jungle). Of course there can be reasons why you want to ward differently (to cover some part of mid for example), but if a guide talks about getting botlane as safe as possible, then the suggestions are just false. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On December 27 2014 18:00 Volband wrote: Opinions? I already commented on it on another board, so I'M just copy-pasting it here: + Show Spoiler + I've finished the preview and I liked what I've read. There weren't any new things in it for me, but it's nice to know that I don't suck because of messing those ups. Helped me a bit to settle some of my inner debates about some warding locations as well, which alone obviously won't skyrocket me into master, but I can speak from experience that the little things do add up. I am, however not sure how helpful it is for example for a silver player. We've been through countless "help me, I'm bronze/silver, want to reach gold!" threads and having an awesome baron or dragon securing ward placement was the least of their issue. I know, it's just the preview, it surely touches on the basics, but even the way he phrased things, leaves some things hanging in the air for you, so a lower elo support might want to ask two or three following questions. For example, he mentions level 1 strength but does not explain when is your team stronger or weaker lvl 1 than your opponent. Personally, I like it, because I hate reading stuff I already know, but I'm fairly convinced that a lower elo Janna player might think his team is weaker lvl 1, because she only has a shield, failing to realize that her Q alone can win one. Reading through the titles, there are some stuff I'd like to read a challenger support's perspective on, but I'm not yet decided whether I want to spend money - though it's quite cheap - on it, or not. It's sad, but from mid plat onwards we are starving for people giving us supports valuable lessons. Sure, we do debate with each other, which gives us perspective, but it doesn't compare to the days Nhat Nguyen used to stream. First of all, he was challenger (or high d1, before challenger existed), so it made it easier to actually follow his advices, even if up until that point you thought the exact opposite on that particular matter. But even watching him play was like a new world for me. I'll never forget how he just started Q with Soraka and went rambo; it just showed you how this game is not won by pussies. I used to stay up until late night when he had an all-Sona or all-Janna day, but he played Blitz as well. I copied my first non-traditional support rune pages (aka not the standard gp/10) from him as well. Today, you can rarely see challenger supports stream, and even then it's fucking Blitzcrank or Thresh. Two champions where the most crucial part of gameplay is landing Qs, everything else is secondary. Also, laning is different with them than with utility supports. LastShadow has some vids where he is coaching some guys with Morg support, and it's cool, because he's kinda like me, no sugarcoating; if the Morg fucks up he straight out says that was fucking terrible, but that's it, and even those vids are a bit outdated, What do you think? Imagnie someone like me, still playing in Season 4, trying to qualify for LCS while playing at the top of the ladder in Solo queue, failing in the attempt, and then "giving back to the community". He's trying to "rip people off" (from my PoV, I'm harsh), because you CANNOT gather plausible information, that other people cannot find out. Back in season 3 i met several high gold/plat players, with the same mind-set as me. They were however still far from me in rating, because they know what is up, they just don't know how to copy the play style. I might buy it, just to see, what it is. I feel like a dick for ranting on someone i haven't read :p I might | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
But you are wrong to say you can learn everything by yourself. I'd still sit in silver if I have never looked at better players to understand what makes them better and either copy it, if it was a build order, mastery or rune page, and embrace it, if it was more about mindset. I'd really like something other than watching challenger replays to help me get to masters. High challenger players are mostly all really talented folks, but even lower challenger (not to mention master) has players with not so spectacular mechanics, but great game understanding. If I'd learn anything from climbing from bronze to here, it's that game knowledge is almost everything. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Fucking Froggen is from Grindsted, a small shitty town with roughly 10.000 people. Out of those 10k, you still have 5 OTHER guys who hit the freaking top in this game (one of them being me and another one being Equilash). A shitty useless town, has 1 pro LCS player and 5 others who played at the Diamond 1/Challenger top. GAMING IS NOT HARD! It's all about knowing what others don't know. I believe that's why so many people from my city remark themselves in their respective games. It's not just League of Legends, it's FPS/RTS/RPG, any game can be learned by anyone, assuming you have the rightful knowledge. A guide like his, is probably good for the ignorant silver-player, but the ignorant silver-player would be much better off, finding someone who actually wants to teach him the fucking game. I can't comprehend it in my mind, but I'm under the influence that coaching is the only viable way to become something in this game. That's why i still have people on facebook/skype/LoL, who were utterly shit when i was at the top and they're now among the very best in EU. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
Anyway,stories like Annie Bot's make me believe that anyone could reach at least master with the proper practice and knowledge, but as I said, you need that knowledge to be smarter than your opponents. Like, in the preview of that guide, he mentions keeping a ward in case there's a fight and someone runs to a bush. Now, we probably read it in 5 seconds and continue without giving it any thought, but that's actually something pretty crucial for players who do not know it, and it's one of the few things I can come up with, if someone asks me how do I play differently in diamond compared to my bronze past. You place that one ward down at a crucial lvl2/lvl3 bot fight and it's crazy how it can turn out to be a breezing 25 mins victory. But then you start playing with people who are well aware of that, so you move up two divisions, but in exchange you lose your weapon, so to say. Once again, you need to know or do something your opponent does not and/or can not. The problem is, the higher you climb, the harder it becomes to learn something new. I like to help out lower ranked players and it's really not that hard. You don't even need to spectate a silver players game to be able to give him a dozen advices. You don't have to bore him with freezing, most optimal warding, or teaching him how to peel properly. If he starts placing wards at all, stop buying useless items and taking 100 minion damage every time he autoattack harasses his opponents, he's already flying up the ranks. But when I observe my games in hindsight, the only flaws I can recognize are the obvious ones. Like going in for a poke, which had a much higher risk than the possible reward, and paying an unnecessary price for it. Not rocket-science, but it's not what I need. I liked it when I had a lot of questions, but now I really don't have much. I'm just "well, I guess we won/lost, great." It's pretty dull, and when you eventually realize that you could spam 500 games more, you'd probably only gain a division at best, it makes the whole thing pointless, seeing how still a great distance to masters. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
I remember Fnatic's "lvl 1 brush-tactic" with Alistar using his pulverize to surprise the enemy support/AD in bottom-lane, quickly snowballing the early-game in their favor. I can't remember at what event it was used, but it only worked that one time. People tried to copy it and Fnatic was well aware that EVERY team saw the game and knew what the tactic was. It's like survival of the fittest. You need to adapt, if you don't adapt, you stop being good. It goes well hand-in-hand with RIOT's "changing the game into a complete new game" every season, because you are FORCED to adapt. In Starcraft Brood War you adapt off other players, in League you adapt according to RIOT's nerfs, buffs and overall changes. In my opinion, it's easy to learn others to adapt properly, if they actually want to improve. That's why, as you mention yourself, it's not rocket-science telling a silver/gold player what that person is doing wrong. It can quickly become rocket-science, telling a Challenger player to stop going to deep for kills or taking less poke before mid-game team-fights, because the mistakes are minimal, but they are still there. That's the beauty of humans, because we always make mistakes, even when we say we don't. I also believe that's why the same people (such as pobelter) can keep reaching the top. They know what to do, how to do it and how to quickly learn the 4 "randoms" on your team, to do the same thing. But even though you have a top 0,1% in LoL that very said top can still quickly become the top 0,1% in another game. It's all about having the right mentality, which is why Pobelter/Wildturtle are deemed solo queue Gods, because they always have the same mentality when playing solo queue. Silver or challenger, it shouldn't matter, it's still 5v5 SR. edit: That's also why tournaments sometimes go out of hand. I watched all the games from finals @ IEM (Gambit vs CLG) and i just remember sitting there thinking "where the fuck did both teams game plan go? This is like watching a random solo queue game". If your mentality slips out of your hands, you lose game harder, than you would by playing mechanically wrong. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
Mentality is very important, that's true, but I'd wish I could clone myself for a day, with the only difference is that my clone would be challenger level and I could ask him to teach me the same way I do/did lower elo people. It's pretty much seems to be the only viable thing to improve alongside with watching high level replays, and I'm salty because of that for some time now. I'm not saying I don't enjoy ranked, because it's still by far the best thing in the game for me, playing matches around your skill level, putting yourself up to the challenge, but everyone yearns for more; the ones who does not (or not wlling to do anything for it) are those who stuck at lower levels. edit: and the reason I got so excited for this guide because I believe I still has a lot to learn (just not sure what exactly) about knowledge, because my current spot is mainly earned with my playstyle, rather than me being a mastermind. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5233 Posts
I understand that it's mostly some kind of gameplan or strategy flaw that gets in the way of winning, but another problem is playing WAY too safe imo. Sometimes games in LCS feel very stale because they need to get the win and they need to stay in for next season so they play the game out very safe. But in Korea and China, they play much more aggressive, just because they want to win as hard as they can, showing off their prowess of the game, and that's what makes the game so interesting. How weird is it that Wildturtle and Pobelter are soloq gods, but seemingly don't excel at their roles in LCS? | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On December 28 2014 00:20 Scip wrote: You can improve only playing without coaching or high level replays/streams just fine idk why you guys got such a boner for coaching I like how every single statistics are against this statement. It's almost as shallow as "having difficulties vs blitz? wtf man, just stand behind the minions!". Yeah, right. edit: also, even stories like "I was bronze, now I'm [insert gold or gold+ tier here)" is thanks to self-coaching, via reading tons of guides, or watching streams. Maybe I already said too much to such a flame-bait response =) | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
If you just kept spamming league and magically found yourself in high diamond then you are a black sheep, and you should be thankful for your gift of abilities. I did not meet or heard anyone who just played himself into being good. That doesn't exist. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On December 28 2014 01:02 Scip wrote: Curious just how unimpressive your statement of "every single statistic" sounds now that you have listed them out The statistics about each region's playerbase of which league they are in is more than enough, and you have nothing to back your fairy tale up, so theres zhat as well | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
I don't understand why reksai works.So many people ban her yet every time I have played vs her she did absolutely nothing so confused. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On December 28 2014 01:06 Volband wrote: The statistics about each region's playerbase of which league they are in is more than enough, and you have nothing to back your fairy tale up, so theres zhat as well I dont understand what you're trying to say | ||
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