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AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
December 07 2014 14:37 GMT
#1241
Really happy that on pbe dragon apparently can't be blocked, dodged or aggro juggled anymore, it should be like that and always a huge risk to take it.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 07 2014 17:00 GMT
#1242
On December 07 2014 23:37 AsnSensation wrote:
Really happy that on pbe dragon apparently can't be blocked, dodged or aggro juggled anymore, it should be like that and always a huge risk to take it.



its still way too easy to take, 3 man'd it at level 3 lol (one guy died but still)
I come in for the scraps
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 17:24:40
December 07 2014 17:14 GMT
#1243
Which runes for jungling Skarner? Ad marks or As marks? Same with quints.

Edit : Nvm found Scip's video of Skarner and it says as marks/quints + cdr blues.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 17:22:07
December 07 2014 17:20 GMT
#1244
On December 08 2014 02:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2014 23:37 AsnSensation wrote:
Really happy that on pbe dragon apparently can't be blocked, dodged or aggro juggled anymore, it should be like that and always a huge risk to take it.



its still way too easy to take, 3 man'd it at level 3 lol (one guy died but still)

If the other team lets your bot lane disappear for 20+ seconds at lvl 3, and doesn't respond at all, then they kind of deserve to lose dragon :p

Imo it should still exist as an objective early on to discourage 4 top strats, and give more rewards to ganking bot early. It just shouldn't be free map pressure purely because you picked pantheon.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 17:27:38
December 07 2014 17:27 GMT
#1245
Having Fiddle/Udyr/Nunu/etc. was free map pressure s4 too, you just needed level 5 (heck even Vi could solo it with spirit stone, a dblade and pots if she took a second level in W iirc).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
IamPryda
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1186 Posts
December 07 2014 17:37 GMT
#1246
I think straight up nerfing trailblazer instead of just buffing other things was a mistake. They could have made chiling smite do increased damage to a single monster to make it the anti counter jungle smite. I do love the fiddle nerfs though cuz honestly hate playing against good fiddle players
Moar banelings less qq
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
December 07 2014 17:56 GMT
#1247
I agree the bigger issue was the other ones being pretty bad.
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
December 07 2014 18:00 GMT
#1248
On December 07 2014 23:37 AsnSensation wrote:
Really happy that on pbe dragon apparently can't be blocked, dodged or aggro juggled anymore, it should be like that and always a huge risk to take it.

Except now that's a massive nerf to the champions that did that. If it can't be blocked by panth passive it now becomes immensely harder to take dragon with him because his kit is balanced with his passive in mind. I had figured that the first nerf to his AS on the PBE was so dragon was a meaningful interaction and the second was to hurt his jungle sustain. This is just going overboard against him and will relegate him to "only worth picking with DOTA draft" status that his ult casting change put him at.

For Fiora, since it can't be parried she also loses damage against it and that wasn't as brainless an interaction anyway.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
December 07 2014 18:20 GMT
#1249
On December 08 2014 02:56 Slusher wrote:
I agree the bigger issue was the other ones being pretty bad.

it's not that the other smites are bad (except for lolpoacher's), it's that even if you don't need smite to clear effectively, not smiting the birds for the oracle's buff on cooldown is almost always a mistake.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 18:53:11
December 07 2014 18:52 GMT
#1250
been getting a ton of hard farming junglers this weekened, I didn't think that was considered strong on this patch?
Carrilord has arrived.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
December 07 2014 19:00 GMT
#1251
First AHGL match, hard carry team to victory woooo~

Ate 3 bans on mid/top lane, promptly go jungle
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1657431585/36576321?tab=stats
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 19:27:20
December 07 2014 19:26 GMT
#1252
far more amused by the other team running sej mid, is there a vod?

sej vi dual ult ganks sound dirty lol
Carrilord has arrived.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
December 07 2014 19:34 GMT
#1253
On December 08 2014 04:26 Slusher wrote:
far more amused by the other team running sej mid, is there a vod?

sej vi dual ult ganks sound dirty lol

The sej was their diamond player lol. Everybody else is gold or below, so teamfights came down to whether or not sejuani could hit the grouped squishies with ult and blow them up, and if she couldn't, everybody dies to jax/noct.

Highlights of the match include quadra from me, and ult-triple from ziggs, as well as several 3-4 man ults from the sejuani.

Pretty scary match because my teammates have trouble respecting the DFG sejuani.

I think one person was streaming, but idk if he saved the vod.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 07 2014 21:18 GMT
#1254
On December 07 2014 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2014 01:17 nafta wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:12 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:03 nafta wrote:
Which still is an absolutely useless statistic since laneswaps,champion picks and roams make it irrelevant.Very often just staying in xp range and not getting cs is actually a good play since said person is just making sure he doesn't die in a hard mu.

Not really, since if you get stuck in a laneswap, at least 95% of the time your positional opponent did too.

Except laneswaps don't play out the same way every game lol.What if your team is comfortable with letting enemy get a freeze that fucks your top laner but gets you objectives?Mid lane gets completely random in laneswaps because of all the roams as well.

Like sure you can use said statistic but it doesn't actually give you real information about how much said person is contributing compared to his counterpart.

Well if you're going to take it like that, then no stats are useful outside of blown nexus.

I have been saying this from beta
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 23:03:48
December 07 2014 23:02 GMT
#1255
On December 08 2014 06:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2014 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:17 nafta wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:12 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:03 nafta wrote:
Which still is an absolutely useless statistic since laneswaps,champion picks and roams make it irrelevant.Very often just staying in xp range and not getting cs is actually a good play since said person is just making sure he doesn't die in a hard mu.

Not really, since if you get stuck in a laneswap, at least 95% of the time your positional opponent did too.

Except laneswaps don't play out the same way every game lol.What if your team is comfortable with letting enemy get a freeze that fucks your top laner but gets you objectives?Mid lane gets completely random in laneswaps because of all the roams as well.

Like sure you can use said statistic but it doesn't actually give you real information about how much said person is contributing compared to his counterpart.

Well if you're going to take it like that, then no stats are useful outside of blown nexus.

I have been saying this from beta

i'm correct in assuming that the people with the "all stats are useless" opinion have made virtually zero effort to actually analyze any data, right?

i think observing that stats like KDA and CS are severely lacking when it comes to predicting the probability of victory and coming to the conclusion that all stats are worthless is a closed-minded and very limited way of thinking. just because the current, readily available stats suck doesn't mean that better metrics can't be developed.

maybe i asked in the wrong way, but i was hoping to get some insights from higher elo TLers about what aspects of the game they think are important and improve your chances to win the match.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
December 07 2014 23:04 GMT
#1256
On December 08 2014 08:02 chalice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2014 06:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:17 nafta wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:12 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:03 nafta wrote:
Which still is an absolutely useless statistic since laneswaps,champion picks and roams make it irrelevant.Very often just staying in xp range and not getting cs is actually a good play since said person is just making sure he doesn't die in a hard mu.

Not really, since if you get stuck in a laneswap, at least 95% of the time your positional opponent did too.

Except laneswaps don't play out the same way every game lol.What if your team is comfortable with letting enemy get a freeze that fucks your top laner but gets you objectives?Mid lane gets completely random in laneswaps because of all the roams as well.

Like sure you can use said statistic but it doesn't actually give you real information about how much said person is contributing compared to his counterpart.

Well if you're going to take it like that, then no stats are useful outside of blown nexus.

I have been saying this from beta

i'm correct in assuming that the people with the "all stats are useless" opinion have made virtually zero effort to actually analyze any data, right?

i think observing that stats like KDA and CS are severely lacking when it comes to predicting the probability of victory and coming to the conclusion that all stats are worthless is a closed-minded and very limited way of thinking. just because the current, readily available stats suck doesn't mean that better metrics can't be developed.

maybe i asked in the wrong way, but i was hoping to get some insights from higher elo TLers about what aspects of the game they think are important and tend to lead to victories.

ZR has been Diamond level since the beginning, iirc. The point is, like all statistics, they can be twisted to mean whatever you want them to without proper context.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 23:19:47
December 07 2014 23:16 GMT
#1257
On December 08 2014 08:04 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2014 08:02 chalice wrote:
On December 08 2014 06:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:17 nafta wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:12 Gahlo wrote:
On December 07 2014 01:03 nafta wrote:
Which still is an absolutely useless statistic since laneswaps,champion picks and roams make it irrelevant.Very often just staying in xp range and not getting cs is actually a good play since said person is just making sure he doesn't die in a hard mu.

Not really, since if you get stuck in a laneswap, at least 95% of the time your positional opponent did too.

Except laneswaps don't play out the same way every game lol.What if your team is comfortable with letting enemy get a freeze that fucks your top laner but gets you objectives?Mid lane gets completely random in laneswaps because of all the roams as well.

Like sure you can use said statistic but it doesn't actually give you real information about how much said person is contributing compared to his counterpart.

Well if you're going to take it like that, then no stats are useful outside of blown nexus.

I have been saying this from beta

i'm correct in assuming that the people with the "all stats are useless" opinion have made virtually zero effort to actually analyze any data, right?

i think observing that stats like KDA and CS are severely lacking when it comes to predicting the probability of victory and coming to the conclusion that all stats are worthless is a closed-minded and very limited way of thinking. just because the current, readily available stats suck doesn't mean that better metrics can't be developed.

maybe i asked in the wrong way, but i was hoping to get some insights from higher elo TLers about what aspects of the game they think are important and tend to lead to victories.

ZR has been Diamond level since the beginning, iirc. The point is, like all statistics, they can be twisted to mean whatever you want them to without proper context.

i'm not asking for completed solutions, just ideas.

like do people not think that it's at least possible there is a correlation between first blood/first dragon kill participation and winrate for someone who is jungling?

or how about first tower and first dragon for bot laners? an adc that participates in an early game mid tower kill?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-07 23:28:43
December 07 2014 23:28 GMT
#1258
The question that you have to ask before that is what question you're trying ton answer/problem you're trying to solve by developing such a statistic.

If you want some predictor of which team is going to win the game, then obviously players winning the game is the best predictor of how likely they are to win a game.

Beyond that, what does some intangible measure of "win contribution" actually accomplish?
Moderator
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
December 07 2014 23:39 GMT
#1259
A couple days ago I was 10-0-5 as J4 jungle at 20 minutes. I lost. Screw your statistics.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-08 00:27:32
December 08 2014 00:14 GMT
#1260
On December 08 2014 08:28 TheYango wrote:
The question that you have to ask before that is what question you're trying ton answer/problem you're trying to solve by developing such a statistic.

If you want some predictor of which team is going to win the game, then obviously players winning the game is the best predictor of how likely they are to win a game.

Beyond that, what does some intangible measure of "win contribution" actually accomplish?

it really didn't occur to me that it would be necessary to explain how analytics can be valuable in sports to a bunch of computer game nerds.

i would say the most obvious benefits are talent identification and performance evaluation. sorting strictly by elo probably contributes a lot to the stagnant pro player pool in NA and if you're team is losing more games than you think it should obviously winrate tells you absolutely nothing about why you are losing.
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