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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 01 2014 18:04 GMT
#961
Blitz is easily my favorite support, the only problem I have with playing him is often getting greedy and trying to play aggressive at level 1-3. If you miss 2 hooks, you're pretty much fucked in lane due to lack of mana.
liftlift > tsm
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 01 2014 18:54 GMT
#962
why is everybody mentioning leona as an early game champ? her 1-5 is absolute trash, one of the worst 1-5 supports in the game. you usually pick her for teamfights and her ability to snowball after 6. you are losing lane cause you're going aggro as leona level 2 not because your ad sucks lol. (that might also be the case though)
I come in for the scraps
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 01 2014 19:07 GMT
#963
On December 02 2014 03:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
why is everybody mentioning leona as an early game champ? her 1-5 is absolute trash, one of the worst 1-5 supports in the game. you usually pick her for teamfights and her ability to snowball after 6. you are losing lane cause you're going aggro as leona level 2 not because your ad sucks lol. (that might also be the case though)

huh? her level 2 and level 3 all-in is op'd as fuck. The problem is in solo queue, the coordination isn't there to make full use of her passive all the time.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 01 2014 19:14 GMT
#964
Leona's level 2 is very good.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 19:15:53
December 01 2014 19:15 GMT
#965
Her level 2 and 3 all-ins are very often completely meaningless because Thresh and Janna just stop that from happening. And those two happen to be very popular right now.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 19:20:28
December 01 2014 19:19 GMT
#966
On December 02 2014 04:15 Prog wrote:
Her level 2 and 3 all-ins are very often completely meaningless because Thresh and Janna just stop that from happening. And those two happen to be very popular right now.

Thresh is more worrisome, because he can retaliate harder on a leona misplay. Janna it's usually an even trade, unless you fight in minion wave, then you gunna have a bad time. IMO, you still have to try it against Janna to force lane pressure so your ADC can farm from level 3 to 6 comfortably without too much free pressure from opposing Janna.
liftlift > tsm
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
December 01 2014 19:20 GMT
#967
Trading evenly as Leona vs Janna is a pretty good sign that the Janna is a terrible player.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 01 2014 19:27 GMT
#968
yea I mean relic exists just so you dont get absolutely dumpster'd, you dont trade evenly
I come in for the scraps
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 01 2014 19:32 GMT
#969
You are referring to counterpicks to Leona.

If you are Sona/Nami vs Leona at level 2 you play like a fucking chicken.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 19:35:10
December 01 2014 19:33 GMT
#970
Not really.If you play out the lane well lvl 1 and you have the correct runes/masteries you can easily win the 2v2 with both nami and sona.Especially now with the increased base stats.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 19:43:52
December 01 2014 19:43 GMT
#971
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
December 01 2014 19:49 GMT
#972
On December 02 2014 03:04 wei2coolman wrote:
Blitz is easily my favorite support, the only problem I have with playing him is often getting greedy and trying to play aggressive at level 1-3. If you miss 2 hooks, you're pretty much fucked in lane due to lack of mana.


Simple change to that wei2kewlmang - don't miss hooks.

Alternatively, you can afford to run some mana regen seals if you REALLY need the regen, though I actually recommend running flat mana glyphs if you want to truly be a boss. It's the #1 way to rollcrank all over their facecranks.
Hey! How you doin'?
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 01 2014 19:50 GMT
#973
indeed. the earliest a leona will get a good engage vs that champs is when the creep wave pushes back at like lvl 4-5 prob. Theres no way leona outpushes first wave vs those guys and gets lvl 2 first without eating a shit ton of damage. you gotta play like a pussy early and sit on tower.
I come in for the scraps
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 01 2014 19:54 GMT
#974
On December 02 2014 04:49 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2014 03:04 wei2coolman wrote:
Blitz is easily my favorite support, the only problem I have with playing him is often getting greedy and trying to play aggressive at level 1-3. If you miss 2 hooks, you're pretty much fucked in lane due to lack of mana.


Simple change to that wei2kewlmang - don't miss hooks.

Alternatively, you can afford to run some mana regen seals if you REALLY need the regen, though I actually recommend running flat mana glyphs if you want to truly be a boss. It's the #1 way to rollcrank all over their facecranks.

I pretty much just relegated myself to threatening hooks with some telegraphed movement, and that's usually good enough to force um back.
liftlift > tsm
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 01 2014 19:56 GMT
#975
On December 01 2014 21:53 padfoota wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2014 10:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On November 29 2014 00:55 padfoota wrote:
Theres a reason why they say supports can be good adcs but adcs cant be good supports. At least not instantly

Can you expand on this because I really have no idea how to play support at all and I mained ADC last season


Because ADC is fucking easy. Well, not really, but still. Heres my argument.

Current ADC's all have the same thing - a burst aoe/single target damage, a secondary burst damage that uses up too much mana early on to spam effectively but has its uses in all ins etc, an escape tool on moderately long cool down, and a burst ulti or an ulti that complements the other spells.
Graves, Corki, Caitlyn, Lucian, Tristana (arguable) etc
With that in mind, you can effectively argue that mastering the ADC is just about getting used to him/her and the rest is interchangable between champs. Skills such as positioning, knowing when to trade, and item build is pretty much flat across the board, with the most variable factor being effective range of skill and aa

Supports are split into a variety of roles that all play out, build, and "support" their teammates in a completely different way,
In these different roles, each play style again split into different styles depending on the opponent support.
Example - Leona Graves is a kill lane sure. Leona graves vs caitlyn blitz? Completely different style of play, and is more about whoever moves first loses.
An ADC main wouldnt really pay attention to this. They think oh its leona if she goes in I all in and its a good trade because its leona. Or for blitz if he hooks the ADC we go in hard and ignore the leona. This is completely untrue in actual fight.

Leona goes in and manages to stick on cait. Graves goes in, but immediately gets knocked up by blitz. Leona's CC ends and Graves ends up getting hits first, and cait Es away before graves can retaliate effectively. While leona tries to back out, she either gets hooked under the tower or takes a fuck ton of damage on her way back.

If blitz hooked first and manages to hooks graves, leona goes in on caitlyn before she can properly attack, graves E gets him super up close and personal to cait while shes CCd and suddenly its a fucking dead caitlyn. Blitz gets blamed for not peeling because hes the support.

In either scenario, if the ADC whose support goes in first decides to dodge the retaliating support spells, they will waste the CC time, and end up in either a poor position to attack while their support takes a ton of damage on the way back.

This is one fucking matchup. For ADC mains all they know is position correctly and kill the priority target, which would be the damage dealer in this case. Sure, itll get you to diamond no problem, but supports whos job has been to observe and understand each match up correctly gets positioning down decently because they know exactly how close each support needs to be to peel effectively, or they stay the fuck back and shoot whatever is closest (also gets you to diamond with practice as long as you get your CS down).

im not even going to bother with all the nami matches, which play completely different depending on the opponent support, the thresh matchups where you play AND build different starting at the beginning depending on the opponent support.
Sona, Janna, alistar etc etc.

But adcs have one job thats pretty much interchangable. Sure its not easy to master, but it sure as hell is easy to pick up when all the support mains have been doing is observation, while ADC's concentration is dumped mostly on CSing well and positioning (which is correct)

While I feel what you say is true, I also think you're giving adcs no credit here. We have to learn literally every combination of matchups that the support does. ADC+support is one unit. I'm bad at actually playing the support part of it but I understand the matchups just as well. It's mainly the execution and the resource management that I'm bad at. My support and I had to do a lot of training on all different matchups with every combination we played. We communicate our thought processes quite openly and know the matchups for our champs pretty well. It's not like one of us is a strategic genius and the other is a mechanical god. If anything, it's the opposite in my case.

Thanks for the reply, though. It does elucidate some thought processes.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
December 01 2014 19:58 GMT
#976
On December 02 2014 04:54 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2014 04:49 Zdrastochye wrote:
On December 02 2014 03:04 wei2coolman wrote:
Blitz is easily my favorite support, the only problem I have with playing him is often getting greedy and trying to play aggressive at level 1-3. If you miss 2 hooks, you're pretty much fucked in lane due to lack of mana.


Simple change to that wei2kewlmang - don't miss hooks.

Alternatively, you can afford to run some mana regen seals if you REALLY need the regen, though I actually recommend running flat mana glyphs if you want to truly be a boss. It's the #1 way to rollcrank all over their facecranks.

I pretty much just relegated myself to threatening hooks with some telegraphed movement, and that's usually good enough to force um back.


I used to play that way, to try to be as mana efficient as possible. Making the adc have to choose between a ranged minion and being in range to be hooked/having to burn an ability to cs is totally worth being a big scary robot. Now I just hit all hooks until they call me Madlife. 150 games and counting and no Madlife naming yet...
Hey! How you doin'?
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
December 01 2014 19:59 GMT
#977
You have to hope someone is bad enough to flash into your hook.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
December 01 2014 20:19 GMT
#978
I love hitting Corkis/Trists/Caits/Lucians mid-jump with hooks. Such satisfaction much wow.
Hey! How you doin'?
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
December 01 2014 20:39 GMT
#979
http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20141201/1628/worlds-2014-numbers
Worlds viewer numbers are finally out, it's confirmed. We're esports now lads
Glorious SEA doto
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
December 01 2014 20:44 GMT
#980
11.2 million at once? Holy shit, what a number.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
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