EPTOn November 01 2014 00:37 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh yeah it can be cancelled early. My bad.
Oh yeah it can be cancelled early. My bad.
thats why i said only a bad galio gets their ulti wasted vs regular amounts of tenacity (or a really good flash).
[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 132
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
thats why i said only a bad galio gets their ulti wasted vs regular amounts of tenacity (or a really good flash). | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:36 PrinceXizor wrote: They take about half a second right? about the amount of time you have post taunt with regular amounts of tenacity. unless you mean like a garen with 21 defense and merc treads using his W and with the new elixir that gives 15% tenacity. he'd have a full 2 seconds. once you get hit 8 times you deal max damage on galios ulti PERIOD. you don't need to wait 2 seconds if you get hit 8 times in the first .5 seconds (due to creeps or W/E) then you can pop it after .5 seconds and no one outside of the fringe cases can avoid that with tenacity. and everyone takes full damage. its not NUNU ultimate. it doesn't increase in damage over time, it increases in damage based on the number of times you get hit during it. if you flash a skillshot it does nothing. if you sit in galio ulti for 1.5 seconds and flash out, you were still disabled for 1.5 seconds. It's still very different from other skillshot, because you have more than a second to start smashing your F or Zhonya key. That's way easier than actually dodging a skillshot because the damage component is telegraphed to you 1+ seconds beforehands. You will still get CC's for quite a bit, but you will be able to avoid the damage - a big chunk of his damage potential. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:40 Sufficiency wrote: It's still very different from other skillshot, because you have more than a second to start smashing your F or Zhonya key. That's way easier than actually dodging a skillshot because the damage component is telegraphed to you 1+ seconds beforehands. You will still get CC's for quite a bit, but you will be able to avoid the damage - a big chunk of his damage potential. and if you sit there mashing your flash or zhonya key, and galio happens to pop his ulti before your tenacity even helps you, much laughs at had at the character that took 700 damage AND burned flash or took damage and then zhonya's while they team gets cleaned up. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:40 Sufficiency wrote: It's still very different from other skillshot, because you have more than a second to start smashing your F or Zhonya key. That's way easier than actually dodging a skillshot because the damage component is telegraphed to you 1+ seconds beforehands. You will still get CC's for quite a bit, but you will be able to avoid the damage - a big chunk of his damage potential. Your reservations aren't unfounded - there's a reason Galio isn't picked a lot. But that doesn't mean he isn't totally workable. I really should change around my rune page for him. I think I made it mid S2 lol | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:43 nafta wrote: Can find a lot more actual good reasons for why galio isn't played than "his ult can be flashed/zhonyad with tenacity" lol. There aren't too many reasons galio isn't played other than his ulti cooldown for how hard it is to get a good one. It's more game changing than an ori ulti is, but a far longer cooldown and not ranged. you can totally make it work just fine. he's not unviable by any means. his damage is really good and long range, he can make clutch plays and pretty much can't lose lane (at worst he goes even) so he has no bad matchups. his ulti can single handedly win fights. its just if you make a mistake with his ulti your team is much more likely to need to poke it out than if you whiff an ori ulti. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:48 PrinceXizor wrote: There aren't too many reasons galio isn't played other than his ulti cooldown for how hard it is to get a good one. It's more game changing than an ori ulti is, but a far longer cooldown and not ranged. you can totally make it work just fine. he's not unviable by any means. I'm not sure I agree with that. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
if you consider the two cases, a 5 man ori ulti or a 5 man galio ulti. the 5 man galio ulti is going to do more in a fight than the ori ulti. its just you know, much harder to get those dominant Idol of Durands, than it is to get the command shockwaves. a 2 man shockwave is still effective and 2 man Idol of Durand is okay at best. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:48 PrinceXizor wrote: There aren't too many reasons galio isn't played other than his ulti cooldown for how hard it is to get a good one. It's more game changing than an ori ulti is, but a far longer cooldown and not ranged. you can totally make it work just fine. he's not unviable by any means. his damage is really good and long range, he can make clutch plays and pretty much can't lose lane (at worst he goes even) so he has no bad matchups. his ulti can single handedly win fights. its just if you make a mistake with his ulti your team is much more likely to need to poke it out than if you whiff an ori ulti. Except you know you can't cancel her ult,she doesn't need flash to use it agressively and it has a shorter cd. Honestly comparing galio to most mid laners he is just inferior.Would make more sense to run him top.If your definition of viable is average then yeah I agree.He isn't bottom tier but very far from top too. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:53 nafta wrote: Except you know you can't cancel her ult,she doesn't need flash to use it agressively and it has a shorter cd. Honestly comparing galio to most mid laners he is just inferior.Would make more sense to run him top.If your definition of viable is average then yeah I agree.He isn't bottom tier but very far from top too. Likewise you can't flash out of a galio ultimate once the r button is pressed like you can an ori ulti. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
2 seconds taunt is still good, but without any good means to deliver damage it puts a lot of pressure on other lanes. I don't know. I think maybe if Galio was a jungler I would accept his kit as is. But he needs a solo lane and I am not sure he deserves one. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:57 PrinceXizor wrote: To me galio is a higher risk higher reward orianna. with vastly better base stats. their playstyles are rather similar as well. though galio is more reliant on getting to 40% cdr than ori because of his ulti Cooldown. if you bumped 5/10/15 seconds off of his ulti CD he'd be picked up in professional play very quickly. Likewise you can't flash out of a galio ultimate once the r button is pressed like you can an ori ulti. But you can use your escape abilities since it doesn't cancel them. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 00:57 Sufficiency wrote: As far as teamfight is concerned, he greatly relies on his R because his Q/E do not do a lot of damage. However, his R has some problems (tenacity, range bug when interrupted, Udyr/Garen/etc.) And he has no gapcloser to deliver his R. 2 seconds taunt is still good, but without any good means to deliver damage it puts a lot of pressure on other lanes. I don't know. I think maybe if Galio was a jungler I would accept his kit as is. But he needs a solo lane and I am not sure he deserves one. you can jungle galio with QWWQQR as a skillbuild and go wraith spirit its actually pretty good at clearing because his base stats are good. though new jungle will probably kick his ass, but with it being lvl 6 centric MAYBE you could get it done if you start toad for that buff? IDK. its not as damaging as solo lane galio for sure you end up with chalice wraith spirit zhonyas usually. but as for not damaging his damage outside of his ultimate is about the same as orianna's but a bit longer range and with better utility. On November 01 2014 01:00 nafta wrote: But you can use your escape abilities since it doesn't cancel them. if you dash out of a galio ulti you run back in due to the taunt its not a taunt field its an aoe 2 second taunt that does damage in the aoe when the spell ends. its like flashing a rammus taunt in how silly it looks. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 01 2014 01:02 PrinceXizor wrote: you can jungle galio with QWWQQR as a skillbuild and go wraith spirit. though new jungle will probably kick his ass, but with it being lvl 6 centric MAYBE you could get it done if you start toad for that buff? IDK. its not as damaging as solo lane galio for sure you end up with chalice wraith spirit zhonyas usually. but as for not damaging his damage outside of his ultimate is about the same as orianna's but a bit longer range and with better utility. if you dash out of a galio ulti you run back in due to the taunt its not a taunt field its an aoe 2 second taunt that does damage in the aoe when the spell ends. its like flashing a rammus taunt in how silly it looks. Except it gives time for people to cancel it so you can dodge the damage and not attacking him doesn't give the increased damage.But that doesn't matter at all right? Thanks for explaining how taunt works to someone who has played since s1 btw. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 01:06 nafta wrote: Except it gives time for people to cancel it so you can dodge the damage and not attacking him doesn't give the increased damage.But that doesn't matter at all right? Thanks for explaining how taunt works to someone who has played since s1 btw. OKay you got me, if you dash out of galio ulti and its cancelled with the .5 seconds it takes to run back in, and he only taunts one person so no one else takes damage or attacks him to buff the damage, and somehow none of this is bad play on galios part. then you are right. its bad. galio isn't played in professional games because anytime you could pick galio, orianna is probably the better choice because she's less risky and pretty much every pro mid can play her. and thats due to the 30 second difference in ulti cooldown as well as the PBAOE quality of his ultimate. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 01 2014 01:08 PrinceXizor wrote: OKay you got me, if you dash out of galio ulti and its cancelled with the .5 seconds it takes to run back in, and he only taunts one person so no one else takes damage or attacks him to buff the damage, and somehow none of this is bad play on galios part. then you are right. its bad. Your sarcasm doesn't change the fact that galio's engages are very obvious and those .5 seconds can be enough.Just because you can flash into ult it doesn't mean that your opponents cant predict it and flash your ult. Let's not forget about how his ult can be stopped by most supports with delayed abilities even if they get taunted(thresh,janna,nami,braum etc). | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 01 2014 01:12 nafta wrote: Your sarcasm doesn't change the fact that galio's engages are very obvious and those .5 seconds can be enough.Just because you can flash into ult it doesn't mean that your opponents cant predict it and flash your ult. Let's not forget about how his ult can be stopped by most supports with delayed abilities even if they get taunted(thresh,janna,nami,braum etc). no you are right. there are situations where its bad to ultimate. but no one chooses not to pick a champion on a professional team because of the what if scenarios that result from a galio making a bad play. suggesting that badly timed/positioned Idol of Durands are why teams don't pick up galio is pretty wrong though. there is just orianna who is galio with less risk. though a TINY bit worse in other ways, the trade off between the champs isn't enough to make it a choice between the stronger heartier galio and the weaker frail orianna, its just orianna does 95% of what galio can do, and does it with half of the risk. We've all seen (or should have seen) the game where faker whiffed his first 4 orianna ultimates and didnt have an impact for 13 minutes because of it. but thats not a reason to choose not to pick orianna, its just a bad game on orianna. On November 01 2014 01:16 GeneralStan wrote: There's also the fact that galio gets to sit around and do nothing while he's ulting while ori gets to keep moving and attacking thats actually not a big deal because galio can cast bulwark or ignite freely in his ulti, and can cancel it any time he wants with a spell or flash or zhonyas or whatever, because in theory every time galio ultis he's tying up more damage than he can do himself, and potentially vastly more if his damage spells are still on CD. its a minor point for sure, and in certain situations can make a big difference, but its not as big of a weakness as it would be if orianna had to stand still to cast shockwave. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 01 2014 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote: thats actually not a big deal because galio can cast bulwark or ignite freely in his ulti, and can cancel it any time he wants with a spell or flash or zhonyas or whatever, because in theory every time galio ultis he's tying up more damage than he can do himself, and potentially vastly more if his damage spells are still on CD. its a minor point for sure, and in certain situations can make a big difference, but its not as big of a weakness as it would be if orianna had to stand still to cast shockwave. O_o wait really?? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
yeah dude. obviously he can't walk over to someone and cast it, but he can cast it if they are within range of him. and on himself/other with bulwark. you can also use deathfire grasp/locket/gunblade, though i dunno if that'd be a good item on him, i've never done it. because bulwark is instant cast you can actually cast it without stopping any commands also, so you can be running and self bulwalk without having to re-issue the move command. its also nice because if you have a hotkey for self cast you can use it on reaction to a projectile flying at you to absorb most of it. | ||
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