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On August 19 2014 13:02 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 12:53 Gahlo wrote:On August 19 2014 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:On August 19 2014 12:39 Gahlo wrote:On August 19 2014 12:31 Sufficiency wrote:On August 19 2014 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 19 2014 12:05 Sufficiency wrote:On August 19 2014 11:53 Gahlo wrote:
The reason why people pick up immobile ADC is because the trade off is that they have increased damage potential, in most cases. Picking Ashe trades damage and mobility for what? What do you think her Q does? Not enough, imo. Not enough to be what? I think her Q is a very poorly designed ability stuck in the "win more" category when she performs well and is near useless when she doesn't. Actually her Q makes her extremely useful when underfarmed, because it's utility. It's very different from most other ADCs who rely on doing more damage. I'd take a 0-5 Ashe over a 0-5 [insert any other adc here] instantly. It offers utility that is very level dependent, which is something the ad/support bot lane forgoes for in the aspirations of more reliable farming. That's also compounded by the fact that she's been forced out of lane over and over and missed out on a ton of xp there as well. Ashe's weak laning is way overstated, especially in the current metagame. She can reliably stay in lane and farm, especially with Volley. When stuff like pre-nerf Sivir and Lucian, Graves, who were massive lane bullies are popular, Ashe does have problems. But now with nerfed Trist, Kog being the go-to picks, Ashe can lane no problem at all, especially if you have Braum or Morg. Even in hard lanes, Ashe can still get farm pretty easily with Volley. It's a 4 second cd, 1200 range aoe poke. CS'ing with that is pretty simple and reliable. She's also not mana hungry at all, so having to spam Volley to farm won't really going to force her out of lane either. It's also interesting to note that supports (in the competitive scene especially) roam a lot more now, letting the AD carry get more exp. I will say that one weakness about Ashe is that she is quite level hungry. Not as much as, say, Tristana, but more so than many other ADs. She wants maxed Volley so she's relevant before she has that AD carry item core, but having maxed frost shots is also really crucial.
It's still pretty important for her to be picked later on after 2/3 of the jungler, support and AD are picked by the enemy so you can be sure that they won't pick something that can wombo combo you.
You can def do fine in lane with her E passive, etc., but compared to other immobile AD's like MF and Draven you have relatively low burst so you need to put yourself in a situation where you won't get stuck on the wrong end of the all-in. Unlike those two few people screw up the math against Ashe and let you trade 1 for 1 in a 1/2v3.
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On August 19 2014 12:38 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 12:36 GolemMadness wrote:On August 19 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
By the way I am very curious how many games both nafta and 5hat actually played as Ashe this season on ranked solo queue. Looks like 5hat has one ranked game and two normal games. nafta has 2 games out of a grand total of 400 for season 4, ~30 for season 3, and <10 in total for season 1 and 2. They could have smurfs though.
I played ashe almost exclusively back in my first time to 30 back in season 1, had something like 250 games on her in ranked in seasons 1 and 2, didn't play her much in season 3, but now on my newest chinese server I played something like 50+ games against other smurfs. I haven't played her in ranked yet because I haven't had that much time.
Ashe is a late game hypercarry. She used to be stronger in this role before all the cleanses became more common, but she still is. Ashe's low damage is deceptive because she comes with a built in red buff (that slows more than red buff late game), because it translates as a lot of actual damage. Sure, ashe will do less damage comparing auto to auto, but she will eventually get more autos off because the opponent can't disengage. She destroys bruisers late game, not as much as vayne, sure, but kill off the gapcloser and you will never ever touch her and you won't be escaping either. I've kited two bruisers before, alternating autos between them, and ended getting a double kill as then ran forward at me and then tried to run away.
Her late game is not an issue more than kogmaw's immobility late game is an issue. Her laning is not a strong as others, sure, but keep in mind the ie buff bt nerf was a big buff to her too, in addition to trist and crew.
Also between her passive + IE/Shiv, volley, and her ult she does a surprising amount of unreturnable burst.
TL;DR: Ashe does as much/more damage than other ads because slows = more autos
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On August 19 2014 12:36 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
By the way I am very curious how many games both nafta and 5hat actually played as Ashe this season on ranked solo queue. Looks like 5hat has one ranked game and two normal games.
I've also played this game since beta and used to train 1v1 vs Locodoco and Ezpz adc vs adc mid when it was just MF/Ashe/Corki/Trist/Ezreal. It doesn't take me very long to pick up a champ I've known how to play for 5 years.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
From 12 games win streak down to losing 13 games out of last 15.
That's not QQ I'm just kinda mad about those Rito downswings that happens if you win too many games. At least on my level. Damn, being matched up with afkers and trolls ain't no fun.
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I love Ashe, and underestimating her burst damage is a bad idea. Her passive auto + nuke + auto at level 1 or 2 is about 300 damage (70*2, + 90, + 70). Of course, after that she only has her pew pew, but it's not something to scoff at.
When I play Ashe, I tend to not get level 2 ult until level 13. It reduces cooldown by 10 seconds only, even if the 175 damage boost is nice, I prefer the increased kiting ability.
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So anybody on NA right now want to duo? My smurf decayed to silver 1, and my main is currently locked out of playing because Rito Pls.
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so u mean u got 14 day banned for homosexual/death threats
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On August 19 2014 15:39 Amui wrote:
So anybody on NA right now want to duo? My smurf decayed to silver 1, and my main is currently locked out of playing because Rito Pls.
I'd suggest not playing right now.
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On August 19 2014 15:40 FinestHour wrote:
so u mean u got 14 day banned for homosexual/death threats
Stuck on reconnect to game.
I'm a santa baron, and you can't take that away from me!
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I've got work soon so I can't make a thread for it but in an hour and ten LPL Summer playoffs will start with EDG vs LGD
http://www.twitch.tv/lplen
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On August 19 2014 15:40 FinestHour wrote:
so u mean u got 14 day banned for homosexual/death threats
Why is there a slash?
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On August 19 2014 15:51 Fusilero wrote:I've got work soon so I can't make a thread for it but in an hour and ten LPL Summer playoffs will start with EDG vs LGD http://www.twitch.tv/lplen
I guess people should use the regular season thread int he mean time.
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On August 19 2014 16:03 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 15:40 FinestHour wrote:
so u mean u got 14 day banned for homosexual/death threats Why is there a slash?
Homosexual threats 2 edgy
Bro i will fuck u up
+ Show Spoiler +
Yaaaaaaaay keep getting failed to connect error at loading screen. Fuck you riot.
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oh it was supposed to be homosexual statements OR death threats or both in one even ehueheue
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On August 19 2014 05:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks Ashe is really strong right now? You kinda concede lane farm a bit but the hawkshot passive and avarice make up for it and then you're just this huge lategame god that has massive teamfight presence because tank teams aren't a thing anymore.
I think I'm going to pick up Ashe as my secondary ADC, I'm practicing her in d1 right now.
No, you're not mostly because games go so "late" that her engage is back to being really valuable. Her burst with shiv is also pretty impressive. Now that lee doesn't slow AS anymore I can see her being a lot stronger.
Basically if any number of people on the enemy team are kitable (udyr etc) then she is strong. If they are not she is weak.
Her problem is that she doesn't do as much damage as the harder carries and her lack of escape and self peel and general immobility (Ashe has the slowest move speed in the game and her slow is very weak compared to say Kogs) make it hard to function against people who will abuse you for those facts.
On August 19 2014 08:49 turdburgler wrote:
but her damage is low, shiv is not ashe, shiv is an item anyone can have. only having 1 ability that deals damage is objectively less damage than any other adc and half her ults power budget is taken up in the fact its a global stun, its got mediocre damage and doesnt scale.
ashes damage is just objectively the lowest, thats not to say shes instantly terrible but its also not really a point up for discussion.
Some things.
1) Ashe has better DPS than cait objectively. So it's not the lowest. She has better pre steroid DPS than most carries (like Trist) and definitely more than many early game carries. She has nearly the highest base AS of any adc(twitch is higher) and the highest scaling AS.
2) Ashe actually has decent dps in fights if the enemy doesn't get a first attack crit. This is ashes primary weakness in terms of dps because her passive (which is basically a steroid) does nothing 55 to 45 percent of the time. Otherwise the bonus damage from the critical strike on the first hit makes other carries take a significant amount of time to get back. Sometimes long enough for their steroids to wear off.
3) shiv isn't Ashe but it has a unique interaction with Ashe in that she is guaranteed the first proc will be a crit. This ups her burst significantly. (Also a reason why she has always been better with BT rather than BotRK due to the first hit damage spike)
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Am I the only person that wonders how sirchez is even in diamond?
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On August 19 2014 16:55 schmutttt wrote:
Am I the only person that wonders how sirchez is even in diamond?
GATES ARE OPENED.
Trick2g + SirhcEz bromance.
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On August 19 2014 15:11 739 wrote:
From 12 games win streak down to losing 13 games out of last 15.
That's not QQ I'm just kinda mad about those Rito downswings that happens if you win too many games. At least on my level. Damn, being matched up with afkers and trolls ain't no fun.
Did you space out your games? And have you been sure to watch the VODs or analyze why you were losing those games? I think tilting can easily happen when you start going on a losing streak, and not analyzing/practicing certain points will also make improvement much slower so you can't continue those win streaks/snap losing streaks.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On August 19 2014 17:01 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 15:11 739 wrote:
From 12 games win streak down to losing 13 games out of last 15.
That's not QQ I'm just kinda mad about those Rito downswings that happens if you win too many games. At least on my level. Damn, being matched up with afkers and trolls ain't no fun. Did you space out your games? And have you been sure to watch the VODs or analyze why you were losing those games? I think tilting can easily happen when you start going on a losing streak, and not analyzing/practicing certain points will also make improvement much slower so you can't continue those win streaks/snap losing streaks.
I never look back. No time to analyze my past games as I'm playing 1-2 games daily only, no time for watching VODs or anything. I mean, when I went on that win streak I felt like I'm playing my A-game and I had REALLY nice teammates, communicative, focusing objectives, no flaming, no afk, no trolls. I went up from G5 ~40ip to G4 91ip and I started tilting hard that I went back to G5 0ip. I know I've been playing sloppy but trust me, every 2nd game I had someone afk in my team or someone just trolled or fed pretty hardcore. Like we had those bot premades doing Jinx/Leona vs Draven/Janna and ended up giving triple kill to Draven after our Shaco ganked bot lane. They gave like 12 kills overall in the first 15 minutes of the game. Then even when I was trying to carry hard as a mid laner I couldn't do shit, because Draven 3-hitted me later on...
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On August 19 2014 17:05 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 17:01 ghrur wrote:On August 19 2014 15:11 739 wrote:
From 12 games win streak down to losing 13 games out of last 15.
That's not QQ I'm just kinda mad about those Rito downswings that happens if you win too many games. At least on my level. Damn, being matched up with afkers and trolls ain't no fun. Did you space out your games? And have you been sure to watch the VODs or analyze why you were losing those games? I think tilting can easily happen when you start going on a losing streak, and not analyzing/practicing certain points will also make improvement much slower so you can't continue those win streaks/snap losing streaks. I never look back. No time to analyze my past games as I'm playing 1-2 games daily only, no time for watching VODs or anything. I mean, when I went on that win streak I felt like I'm playing my A-game and I had REALLY nice teammates, communicative, focusing objectives, no flaming, no afk, no trolls. I went up from G5 ~40ip to G4 91ip and I started tilting hard that I went back to G5 0ip. I know I've been playing sloppy but trust me, every 2nd game I had someone afk in my team or someone just trolled or fed pretty hardcore. Like we had those bot premades doing Jinx/Leona vs Draven/Janna and ended up giving triple kill to Draven after our Shaco ganked bot lane. They gave like 12 kills overall in the first 15 minutes of the game. Then even when I was trying to carry hard as a mid laner I couldn't do shit, because Draven 3-hitted me later on...
Personally, I have a policy where I think that you HAVE to analyze your past games or else what are you learning? It's like, trying to improve at BW without examining your replays and seeing where you fucked up your build order, scouting, etc. And 1-2 games daily is still enough to point out a plethora of mistake for low level players. I mean, you could always say teammates should've been better, but if you want to get out of whatever league it's about what you need to do better because you're making a ton of mistakes. You just need to spot them and improve on them.
Note: I don't watch all of my replays, but I'll keep in mind something like "I really fucked up CSing hard this game. I need to go practice that" and then proceed to just practice it for like 10 minutes in a custom game or something. I think it helps. :/
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EPT
