EPT[Patch 4.13] Sona Update General Discussion - Page 11
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On July 31 2014 02:29 layabout wrote: I just threw up in my mouth a little I am quite surprised at the scale of the thresh nerfs. I think Braum is unbalanceable by design. Janna disengages. She does it well and it makes her a good champion to have during teamfights. If Janna builds ap because she can almost always disengage, so mistakes you make are less punishing and it becomes much harder for the other team to take opportunities. Riot are frightened of making her strong in case she becomes oppressively strong. So support Janna has been fucked for ages. Her q costs a stupid amount of mana, and there are incentives to charge it in spite of the fact that since you want to hit people with it charging it is almost always a terrible idea. This is poor design since you encourage newer players to use the skill incorrectly. The damage and scaling on Janna's w is poor and the slow is pretty rubbish until you have it maxed it, yet there is still a trade off for using it - loss of movement speed and unitwalking. Her passive is weak and adds very little to gameplay. But Riot aren't willing to address it and are happy to leave her in the gutter after they sold us the legendary skin before throwing her there. Janna has design issues that they are scared to fix because she is potentially too strong Wow mate, seems like our opinions are just clashing on everything on this support topic, though I agree that Braum is super strong by design (passive and e). So, I main Janna, bought her after IPL3 (if that was the one that TSM won with Dyrus), so I had the opportunity to experience her in the golden days. She and Malz helped to get gold in s2, she helped me get to plat in s3, and now she helped me to get into diamond. She, and maybe Lulu are the only champs I consistently play a lot since s2. Maybe i should've phrased it in past tense, because riot does a very good job at gutting support lulu. These nerfs won't solve the oppression of top lulu, and lulu is still a more fucking exciting champion than mundo. Maybe that's just me though. Anyway, so Janna! She doesn't really have design issues, she has clear strength and weaknesses, and not a single ability that is impossible to balance. A knockup, a shield, a slow and a knockback. Twist the numbers and these abilities become healthy. You complain about Qs mana cost, but let me tell you, that is one of the few reasons why Janna is balanced early. If it costed the same as W, you would not want to go to a bot lane where she is. It's already disgusting what she can do mid and late game, the last thing she needs is to be the biggest jerk in bot from lvl 2. It also separates the good jannas from the bad ones (well, this, and a 100 other things). I remember in my low gold days when I was just 0-24 charging tornados, so they might hit someone. Utilizing q to not just to be a random skill you throw out there, but THE skill that makes the difference early is key. You don't have to charge Q, but if you can, you get rewarded. Again, it's a hard decision, but many times I find myself resisting the insta Qs when I know I can charge it. It does make a difference. You can gank your own lane for example with a pre-placed tornado. You have to know where they would be fleeing and when to start your 'nado, and if it hits, they are fucked for sure. The new patch rewards this play even more, so I'm really happy. This is the good skill balance. With insta q you can utilize ~80% of the things your tornado is capable of, so you don't have to be korean to use it efficently, but if you can do charged up qs as well, you are separated from the many. W is a beast, you should have tried W maxing before the knife nerfs. I was surprised myself, because I remember that W max in s2 was pretty legit, with the higher damage and absurd slow duration compared, but did not expect it to be still viable. Anyway, it's not what the skill about. It gives you free boots versus those pesky skillshot champions, it is an awesome catching tool, great for separating enemies if more of them are chasing, and a get out of jail card, because you are pretty much the fastest champ in the game with it, and you can also avoud unit collision. I won't talk about max ranked w, because it's just broken. Ask the Jax who wants to hit your adc at least once, after his leap was cancelled by your q. There is nothing to be fixed, especially since it a point and click "lol, ya' dead, mah jungler is here, sry". The buff to her ultimate in s4 is awesome, I loathed s3 Janna ult, it was reaaallly hard to decide when to interrupt your healing exactly, to maximize it's effect, and there were very very very few instances you could actually finish the channeling. I'd say I miss s2 Janna ult, but I'm still wondering how the fuck could it get through playtesting, let alone to be in the game for so long. This buff to her passive was the one thing I actually thought about myself too, it was really the only thing I was missing from current Janna. Plus 5% aoe speed is NOT ok. It is really good from the very first seond to the last, I don't think I need to emphasize how important movement speed is. In lane, I often walk back to my adc to help him get back faster. Maybe it's just some cs, maybe a crucial level up. You'll never know. He can harass easier, avoid skill shots easier, flee easier, chase easier, he can do everything easier just because I happen to be playing Janna. Imagine if I'm using my own skills too! No, really, it's awesome. Everyone, always complain how Janna has no lane presence. Just lol. Janna with Cait, Lucian or Draven early is an outright joke. Your shield and passive alone is enough for them to be a in-your-face jerks, and once you (lvl 3 or 4) you get your tools for disengaging or chasing down every mofo, your lane presence is more than enough. Is it the best? For offensive purposes, obviously not, you only become a god in lane, when you have to chase. Or when you are all-ined. Yes, one of Janna's biggest strength in lane is definetly how she can win enemy all-ins or hard engages. Not only she can greatly distract the whole all-in process, she can instantly turn on you, and you. will. not. get. away. The only lanes I lose is vs blitz (he's gay), and if my bottom partner still thinks vayne is in the marksman category. Riot should really create a "useless piece of poo" category for the likes of Vayne. Also, I tend to lose with Ezreals (or at least rarely win the lane), because their kit just don't mash well together. Ezreal is an adc who can just play in his own world, while Janna is an active-reactive support, who only shines the most when the opportunity rises. Probably the hardest lane to lose with, but pretty boring, unless your ez is a beast. Oh, and all of the above is pre 6 of course, post 6 Janna sends Leonas and Threshes tower diving, even if they not want to. Also, if you have flash and ult up, you just flash between te enemy adc and support, while your heal reaches your adc. Good fucking luck. In my s3 Janna run I had to listen to all the "WHY JANNA OMG SHES USELESS" whines in lobby, and some people still freak out. It's amazing how so many people are not aware of her mid and late game opness. I definetly would not want to be the fotm rengar, jax, irelia, or really, any bruiser or assassin ('cept some ap) against myself. She is a powerhouse, especially if you itemize her well. Even if your adc is terrible, it is so goddamned hard to die next to a mid/late game Janna. I remember when MF was fotm. Man, there were some terrible mfs, but they just stood still, pressed r and w and killed everyone, because of the peel. Special mention to the days when Alistar jungle was a thing, and the Alistar-Janna dream team became a reality. It was funny, though I felt bad for the enemy team. Honestly, as much as it irritates me when people fail to realize the strength of Janna, I'm happy that it's not a contested pick, and I can still be one of the few who reminds people in game that it's still nearly impossible to play vs her. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On July 31 2014 04:03 Complete wrote: janna has 2 slows? ;o knock ups are effectively slows when it comes to stopping people running away. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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ishboh
United States954 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21341 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 31 2014 05:16 Alaric wrote: Well considering the LCS and Riot's intended target it's probably a DotA 2 team. It's intended target is gamers that watch on Youporn? Dunno why you want that low quality shit anyway. Don't really get the issue. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
sweet tag, lol. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 31 2014 05:17 Numy wrote: It's intended target is gamers that watch on Youporn? Dunno why you want that low quality shit anyway. Don't really get the issue. They're trying to avoid swearing as hard as they can, both in team vocal excerpts, interviews, etc. if they only targeted gamers I don't think they'd try that hard. Plus, considering the player base there's probably a bunch of underage people watching the streams (is the legal age for this 21 or 18 in the US?). Would you see some alchohol brand sponsoring a LCS team? A porn site probably is in the same boat. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 31 2014 05:20 Alaric wrote: They're trying to avoid swearing as hard as they can, both in team vocal excerpts, interviews, etc. if they only targeted gamers I don't think they'd try that hard. Plus, considering the player base there's probably a bunch of underage people watching the streams (is the legal age for this 21 or 18 in the US?). Would you see some alchohol brand sponsoring a LCS team? A porn site probably is in the same boat. Well I mean doesn't the US Air Force sponsor C9? Think that's worse than a porn site sponsoring a team but seems to be fine. Guess there's a lot of people out there that are terrified of people having sex. As for alcohol don't really see issue either. Alcohol sponsor a bunch of teams and sports events. It's the number 1 legal drug anyway. I'd love it people drank less or more responsibly but that's another issue. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21341 Posts
On July 31 2014 05:22 Numy wrote: Well I mean doesn't the US Air Force sponsor C9? Think that's worse than a porn site sponsoring a team but seems to be fine. Guess there's a lot of people out there that are terrified of people having sex. As for alcohol don't really see issue either. Alcohol sponsor a bunch of teams and sports events. It's the number 1 legal drug anyway. I'd love it people drank less or more responsibly but that's another issue. This is America your talking about. I can cut a man in half on live tv in the afternoon but my god if you show so much as a nipple before 2am your off the air :p | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21341 Posts
On July 31 2014 05:26 JimmiC wrote: Like 7-5 years ago when UFC wasn't as main stream as it is now they had Condom-depot.com as a sponsor on tons of guys shorts. So whatever, get your sponsors where you can, you can't start out with harley davidson, budwiser bugerking and so on. If you don't like the site or porn then don't visit. But let them send the money to esports all day. Edit: I've always found it how it's illegal for one person to charge another person for sex, but it's fine to pay someone or boht people for sex as long as you video it and sell it. Makes sense... right? Riot is very conscience about there image and the image of LoL. Im 100% sure they would never allow the scenario you describe. Oh and don't forget Riot and Valve both have 0 reason to allow this for money, they are both earning more then they could ever spend. Unlike the UFC scenario they don't have to sell their morals to stay in business. | ||
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