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[Patch 4.12] RIP Lucian General Discussion - Page 47

Forum Index > LoL General
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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 22 2014 23:12 GMT
#921
Graves/Jax/Rengar/Nautilus were rendered nicely. Ahri/Leona/Kat/Zyra looked stupidly skinny. It's one thing to have hot video game females, it's another when they're rendered to have like 12 inch waists. Darius didn't look at menacing as he could have, especially when standing next to Draven, should have made him a bit taller. He was also smaller than Rengar in size, which didn't really seem right to me.
liftlift > tsm
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23442 Posts
July 22 2014 23:13 GMT
#922
I honestly never go BoTRK on Irelia. I don't know if there's any lanes you need it so much more than triforce.

Against renekton and stuff I like to get attack speed boots+2x dolans +chain vest for some tankiness and DPs into trinity force afterwards.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
July 22 2014 23:14 GMT
#923
Yea bork is shit on irelia.Get zephyr or ghostblade for more vroom vroom.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 22 2014 23:20 GMT
#924
On July 23 2014 08:11 Alaric wrote:
I don't feel like Irelia needs the BotRK tbh. In most cases, unless you get behind or you have to deal with some heavy sustain/high damage dude (like Tryndamere, can't get tanked with just ult+Hiten+armour either if you didn't get a lead in lane), for example a splitpusher, Irelia's got enough sustain by herself in lane (esp. if you add 1-2 dblades) and once she's got an item completed she's more about finding a window and bursting a squishy down anyway. Triforce is vastly superior to BotRK in terms of burst, and once you have it you don't mind either Zephyr (if snowballing) or a defensive item (Randuin's/BV for example, I tend to build Locket when against a bunch of magic damage but it's weaker for yourself) because in the midgame you should still have enough damage to kill someone if you can stick for enough of Hiten Style's duration.

Later on she falls off anyway, I tend to rely on a late Zephyr for damage, once I'm tanky enough (2-3 items depending on how much they focus me and whether I can kill someone or have to make him run then hide myself until CDs come back up), but I see BotRK as overkill and not as good as survivability for Irelia's second big item.

About the masteries I wasn't using Enchanted Armor but that's because it often doesn't do much in lane for me (I play stuff like Jax or Irelia so I always get some "counterpick" against me that makes recovery more interesting, and I spec masteries/runes for the early game), and it is very bad if you compare it to Legendary Guardian for example. I guess since most games go late I just have to be slightly better to not miss Recovery, and go for that, ugh.

Does Reinforced Armor reduce the crit multiplier by a flat 10%, or it reduces the final damage by 10% (eg. does an IE crit do 2.4x or 2.25x the normal damage)?


My understanding (read it somewhere) is that it reduces the entire damage by 10%.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 22 2014 23:21 GMT
#925
On July 23 2014 08:13 Slayer91 wrote:
I honestly never go BoTRK on Irelia. I don't know if there's any lanes you need it so much more than triforce.

Against renekton and stuff I like to get attack speed boots+2x dolans +chain vest for some tankiness and DPs into trinity force afterwards.

Against Renekton I do something like dblade+pot -> try to farm ~1100 gold -> recall and tp back with warden's+pots+ward and that's when I start pulling ahead in lane (usually happens close to level 6). If I can't (usually because there are early ganks; ironically enough with some champs and match-ups a gank that doesn't result in a kill makes things worse for me because it means we recall earlier and it throws off my timing—especially with Viktor on whom I really want to just farm 1100k for augment+ward+pots first back, right before we hit 6), I'll try to get chain vest, or a 2nd dblade if I can't. Then either sheen or zerkers.

I'm still in the process of feeling whether I should go zerkers, zeal or sheen first. Despite the drawn-out nature of the fights and his lack of mobility I find sheen > zeal/zerkers versus Ryze. Versus Riven too because she's so stupidly mobile. AS better against Fiora (after Mail), sometimes Malphite/Nasus/etc. a Renekton who builds squishy (after Warden's obv.), etc.
Sheen's usually better but really requires you to harass/fight a bunch to make the lack of real stats worth it, while Zeal gives you better dps but also better sustain with the AS, and better mobility for stutter-stepping and running from ganks.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 22 2014 23:25 GMT
#926
On July 23 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 08:13 Slayer91 wrote:
I honestly never go BoTRK on Irelia. I don't know if there's any lanes you need it so much more than triforce.

Against renekton and stuff I like to get attack speed boots+2x dolans +chain vest for some tankiness and DPs into trinity force afterwards.

Against Renekton I do something like dblade+pot -> try to farm ~1100 gold -> recall and tp back with warden's+pots+ward and that's when I start pulling ahead in lane (usually happens close to level 6). If I can't (usually because there are early ganks; ironically enough with some champs and match-ups a gank that doesn't result in a kill makes things worse for me because it means we recall earlier and it throws off my timing—especially with Viktor on whom I really want to just farm 1100k for augment+ward+pots first back, right before we hit 6), I'll try to get chain vest, or a 2nd dblade if I can't. Then either sheen or zerkers.

I'm still in the process of feeling whether I should go zerkers, zeal or sheen first. Despite the drawn-out nature of the fights and his lack of mobility I find sheen > zeal/zerkers versus Ryze. Versus Riven too because she's so stupidly mobile. AS better against Fiora (after Mail), sometimes Malphite/Nasus/etc. a Renekton who builds squishy (after Warden's obv.), etc.
Sheen's usually better but really requires you to harass/fight a bunch to make the lack of real stats worth it, while Zeal gives you better dps but also better sustain with the AS, and better mobility for stutter-stepping and running from ganks.

Is this before or after you rage at the game for getting rekt by ADC's?
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 22 2014 23:28 GMT
#927
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23442 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-22 23:30:03
July 22 2014 23:29 GMT
#928
Why would you go wardens mail rush against renekton or riven etc? Makes no sense, 300 gold is better spent on a ward, and then hp/mana pots.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 22 2014 23:32 GMT
#929
On July 23 2014 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.

Irelia you can definitely get away with only Trifrorce, but BotRK is almost too good not to get on Jax.
liftlift > tsm
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 22 2014 23:35 GMT
#930
You can go tri > tank on either it's fine. I just find it boring so I always go two offensive.
Glorious SEA doto
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
July 22 2014 23:39 GMT
#931
On July 23 2014 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.


I thought it was always split push jax---> double damage items and if you want to fight a bit earlier-->triforce into tank?
Cause jax with double damage items literally shits on everyone 1v1

No clue who started doing that on irelia tho. Was never impressed by it
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 22 2014 23:43 GMT
#932
On July 23 2014 08:32 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.

Irelia you can definitely get away with only Trifrorce, but BotRK is almost too good not to get on Jax.


So my understanding of the BotRK is that Jax wants to splitpush, so BotRK gives him a lot of dueling power and allows him to easily 1v1 anyone.

But people needs to understand (especially in soloQ) that it offers no survivability beside a bit of heal from the active and the life steal (which is really not too much, by the way). If you want to splitpush 24/7, sure, I can sort of see it, but if you into a 5v5 teamfight, that BotRK does very little good for you.

Also, even in a 1v1 situation I am not entirely convinced that BotRK is worth it. Jax will most likely win a straight up 1v1 duel against most champion anyway with just triforce.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 22 2014 23:59 GMT
#933
The build-up is smoother if you don't somehow get an early lead in some match-ups though. When I'm against something like Singed I'd rather have the sustain in lane because I know I'll never be able to kill him under normal circumstances. Triforce also feels weaker against something Renek/Shyvana going tanky first because they'll outlast you (and/or finish their first big item before your triforce too).
In match-ups like Malphite, in my experience BotRK will make it easier for you to just farm but you won't have kill potential, while Triforce can let you kill him but it's harder and requires more from you. Triforce def. better in teamfights since at that point it's more burst and without much tankiness/sustain you want to kill someone before your ult runs out, but some lanes or situations call for the "safety" of a BotRK.
I do get Triforce first whenever I can on Jax though, and then BotRK only if I want to splitpush/we don't look to group up soon.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 23 2014 00:03 GMT
#934
On July 23 2014 08:43 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 08:32 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 23 2014 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.

Irelia you can definitely get away with only Trifrorce, but BotRK is almost too good not to get on Jax.


So my understanding of the BotRK is that Jax wants to splitpush, so BotRK gives him a lot of dueling power and allows him to easily 1v1 anyone.

But people needs to understand (especially in soloQ) that it offers no survivability beside a bit of heal from the active and the life steal (which is really not too much, by the way). If you want to splitpush 24/7, sure, I can sort of see it, but if you into a 5v5 teamfight, that BotRK does very little good for you.

Also, even in a 1v1 situation I am not entirely convinced that BotRK is worth it. Jax will most likely win a straight up 1v1 duel against most champion anyway with just triforce.

You need the BotRK to sustain after you beat your opponents face in to keep lane pressure.
liftlift > tsm
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
July 23 2014 00:04 GMT
#935
Why pick jax if you want to teamfight though?That doesn't really make any sense.He is good only vs some teamcomps but overall it is much more effective to just split endlessly.The situations in which you can't are very very very rare.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 23 2014 00:08 GMT
#936
On July 23 2014 09:04 nafta wrote:
Why pick jax if you want to teamfight though?That doesn't really make any sense.He is good only vs some teamcomps but overall it is much more effective to just split endlessly.The situations in which you can't are very very very rare.

pretty much this. get triforce+botrk, draw as much pressure as possible, hope your team can do something else on map.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 23 2014 00:08 GMT
#937
This new cinematic is so violent lol. This cannot be rated T.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 23 2014 00:17 GMT
#938
On July 23 2014 09:08 Sufficiency wrote:
This new cinematic is so violent lol. This cannot be rated T.

Good!
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
July 23 2014 00:22 GMT
#939
Isn't it more that if your team needs you to be in a teamfight, you can contribute? Just saying that you're locked out from teamfights sounds pretty bad.
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 23 2014 00:28 GMT
#940
On July 23 2014 08:32 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2014 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't know who came up with the two damage items Jax/Irelia builds, but I think it sucks. People should go back to only Triforce and build tanky afterwards.

Irelia you can definitely get away with only Trifrorce, but BotRK is almost too good not to get on Jax.


So my understanding of the BotRK is that Jax wants to splitpush, so BotRK gives him a lot of dueling power and allows him to easily 1v1 anyone.

But people needs to understand (especially in soloQ) that it offers no survivability beside a bit of heal from the active and the life steal (which is really not too much, by the way). If you want to splitpush 24/7, sure, I can sort of see it, but if you into a 5v5 teamfight, that BotRK does very little good for you.

Also, even in a 1v1 situation I am not entirely convinced that BotRK is worth it. Jax will most likely win a straight up 1v1 duel against most champion anyway with just triforce.
[/QUOTE]

If you get into a teamfight 4v4/5v5 Jax is going to do little good.

On July 23 2014 09:04 nafta wrote:
Why pick jax if you want to teamfight though?That doesn't really make any sense.He is good only vs some teamcomps but overall it is much more effective to just split endlessly.The situations in which you can't are very very very rare.


This. Go watch an OGN/LCS teamfight. Count the #of autoattacks that the melee champions get off. Preferably split it into two parts: During "teamfighting" and during "cleanup". Most get off 1-3 autos during the "fight", Jax's teamfight value is really as a cleanup guy, because he doesn't do much damage in them.
Freeeeeeedom
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