EPT[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 37
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On July 07 2014 16:45 OhTwoMise wrote: I think you need to just learn to read the game. Grail/Rod is by far the safest option and is probably good enough in the majority of cases, but it's not always the best. Grail/Tear is much stronger if you can get it without being significantly punished. I've never really liked Rod/Tear. You have a big enough pool for MOST fights, but you will eventually run dry, meaning you will have to base more often. There are also games where you just need faster damage for a variety of reasons. Consider something like Chalice-->damage here, upgrading Grail when you think you have time. In general, I would always get Grail. Both passives are much better on Anivia than most other champions, most of which always rush Grail anyway. CDR is also pretty underrated by a lot of players in my experience, both on Anivia and in general. There was a period of time where I decided to just try CDR in a bunch of places people don't normally build it and was pleasantly surprised at how strong it was most of the time, even with somewhat awkward mixes of combat stats. Grail alone CAN be sufficient, but if you don't have pressing need to get a non-mana second item (which will generally be either faster damage or Zhonya's), you should probably just get the second mana item. You guarantee and accelerate your farm, have greater freedom of movement, spend less time in base, and occasionally teamfights just get weird and you need the extra mana, even starting from full with a Grail. It also severely lessens your dependence on blue, particularly in defensive positions, where you're both less likely to have the blue and more likely to use a bunch of mana before the fight breaks out. Caveat: It's been many moons since I played a lot of Anivia, but I think the principles are mostly unchanged. Edit: Quote formatting Thanks. I've been watching a lot of Anivia games and most of the time they do go RoA and Grail, probably because it's the most well rounded out of all the options. I do want to try Tear/RoA though. Although you don't have the Grail passive, both Seraphs and Grail now give the same Mp5, which makes Tear a little more attractive to me. Plus they do give you a LOT more AP (100% ratio on E is very tantalising). CDR is really nice though, particularly so your ult comes up faster after a cancel. Plus your E just trucks people so having that up more is nice. I must experiment more. On July 07 2014 16:55 Alaric wrote: Better option: you don't play Anivia. If you really need your bird fix, there's always Swain anyway, best bird. I already usually pick Swain when I have to top. Just looking to extend my bird repertoire. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On July 07 2014 15:42 JazzVortical wrote: Anyone here play much Anivia or know what the best combination of mana items is for her? Or is it conditional and best to judge on a game by game basis? Seems like you need two mana items for her. Grail plus RoA is nice for the combination of CDR, Regen and overall mana pool. From what I've watched, this option seems like the go. RoA plus Tear gives you a tonne of mana and AP, but no CDR. Seraph's active is pretty nice though. Grail plus Tear means you have to itemise HP/defense elsewhere (maybe Rylai's and Liandry's?), but you've got plenty of mana. I really like chalice>roa>grail/dcap+void. While you can go straight grail, you have to be very careful with mana usage even with blue, because you can run oom incredibly quickly without a pool to back it up. Having a pool also lets you place ulti down on one side of a tower, wall the other side, and then get 6 seconds for your team to just hit tower for free, without taxing your mana pool too heavily from the 500+ mana cost. With just grail if you try that, you have one rotation if the other team engages through, or immediately after that. Also grail adds CDR, which is nice because of the 2x 1.0 scaling nukes along with ult repositioning. I think tear+roa is now outdated because the game has gotten so much quicker, and your team can no longer afford to have you sit on your ass for 30 minutes while you build up to a 750AP lategame. You also run oom gradually with that build, even if it does take you a long time. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
For 300g more than athenes you get 80ap 16mp5 20cdr 250-1000mana plus grievous wounds and tear passive which is usually at least another 5mp5, plus it sets you up to build seraphs later which is obviously ludicrously strong. compared to athenes 60ap 25mr 10mp5 20cdr and mana passives | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
On July 07 2014 17:56 Alaric wrote: No, really. Noone needs Anivia in their lives. Come now, Swain is just a ranged version of Riven anyway. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 07 2014 18:50 Alaric wrote: The amusing part is that Riven actually has more reach than him. yeah...but does riven have an ability that gives her 20% extra damage!! oh. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On July 07 2014 17:05 JazzVortical wrote: Thanks. I've been watching a lot of Anivia games and most of the time they do go RoA and Grail, probably because it's the most well rounded out of all the options. I do want to try Tear/RoA though. Although you don't have the Grail passive, both Seraphs and Grail now give the same Mp5, which makes Tear a little more attractive to me. Plus they do give you a LOT more AP (100% ratio on E is very tantalising). CDR is really nice though, particularly so your ult comes up faster after a cancel. Plus your E just trucks people so having that up more is nice. I must experiment more. I already usually pick Swain when I have to top. Just looking to extend my bird repertoire. I don't know if this will be useful to you but for the last couple of patches I have been maining Zilean mid and he has HUGE mana gating issues similar to Anivia. I tried every combination of chalice/roa/seraphs and the build that felt the best to me was always tear into ROA but once you get to late game you need 40% CDR on pretty much every mid so I was running ROA/chalice. Then I figured why not try CDR boots, after all Fishing for Urf goes them every game and his damage seems decent. I run 15% CDR, 5% from masteries (21/0/9) and accept the 15AP hit on quints with 3 blues for the other 10%. If you feel confident, both blues and quints are equally efficient for CDR so you can exchange MR for AP to fit your needs. This lets you rush tear/ROA and once you get boots right after you will have 30% CDR which goes to 40% with blue pot or blue buff. AP is a really weak stat early on anyways and while I love the 15 flat magic pen it doesn't seem to affect me as harshly as I thought it would. I know anivia is way more aggressive with her spells early on in a lot of matchups but you are likely not getting tier 2 boots until pretty late in the laning phase either way so it is up to you if you think the 15 flat pen is an untouchable commodity. I love it and have had good results, cant hurt for you to give it a game. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
-edit: Theoretically full AP Vlad should 100-0 any squishy with this combo. However they have 1 second to flash before you use DFG and they have 5 seconds for Heals/Shields to come into play assuming your team can't deal some sort of damage to them. And of course QSS is a hard counter but a semi-bruiser with the possibility of deleting a carry could have some merit or am I just wishfully thinking. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 08 2014 02:05 Sufficiency wrote: DFG vlad is about as good as AD Ahri. AD Ahri used to be okay when Muramana was broken as fuck. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On July 08 2014 02:41 wei2coolman wrote: AD Ahri used to be okay when Muramana was broken as fuck. what lol | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On July 08 2014 03:07 GreggSauce wrote: still have yet to see a maokai do more than be a nuisance You cant expect him to carry lol, he has some very brutal ganks with a spammable knockup/root(which actually probably does okay damage since it does %max health) past 20 minutes his damage is non existant, but you can offer god level peels for your adc that you hopefully snowballed really hard. that or your midlane | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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