• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:29
CEST 02:29
KST 09:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier3Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League49Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War145
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? SOOP Announces New Women's Monthly Tournament [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Women's StarCraft] Tier 8 CK 2026-10-20 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9893 users

[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 37

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 72 Next
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-07 07:55:52
July 07 2014 07:55 GMT
#721
Better option: you don't play Anivia. If you really need your bird fix, there's always Swain anyway, best bird.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-07 08:06:32
July 07 2014 08:05 GMT
#722
On July 07 2014 16:45 OhTwoMise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2014 15:42 JazzVortical wrote:
Anyone here play much Anivia or know what the best combination of mana items is for her? Or is it conditional and best to judge on a game by game basis? Seems like you need two mana items for her.

Grail plus RoA is nice for the combination of CDR, Regen and overall mana pool. From what I've watched, this option seems like the go.
RoA plus Tear gives you a tonne of mana and AP, but no CDR. Seraph's active is pretty nice though.
Grail plus Tear means you have to itemise HP/defense elsewhere (maybe Rylai's and Liandry's?), but you've got plenty of mana.


I think you need to just learn to read the game. Grail/Rod is by far the safest option and is probably good enough in the majority of cases, but it's not always the best. Grail/Tear is much stronger if you can get it without being significantly punished. I've never really liked Rod/Tear. You have a big enough pool for MOST fights, but you will eventually run dry, meaning you will have to base more often. There are also games where you just need faster damage for a variety of reasons. Consider something like Chalice-->damage here, upgrading Grail when you think you have time.

In general, I would always get Grail. Both passives are much better on Anivia than most other champions, most of which always rush Grail anyway. CDR is also pretty underrated by a lot of players in my experience, both on Anivia and in general. There was a period of time where I decided to just try CDR in a bunch of places people don't normally build it and was pleasantly surprised at how strong it was most of the time, even with somewhat awkward mixes of combat stats.

Grail alone CAN be sufficient, but if you don't have pressing need to get a non-mana second item (which will generally be either faster damage or Zhonya's), you should probably just get the second mana item. You guarantee and accelerate your farm, have greater freedom of movement, spend less time in base, and occasionally teamfights just get weird and you need the extra mana, even starting from full with a Grail. It also severely lessens your dependence on blue, particularly in defensive positions, where you're both less likely to have the blue and more likely to use a bunch of mana before the fight breaks out.

Caveat: It's been many moons since I played a lot of Anivia, but I think the principles are mostly unchanged.

Edit: Quote formatting

Thanks. I've been watching a lot of Anivia games and most of the time they do go RoA and Grail, probably because it's the most well rounded out of all the options. I do want to try Tear/RoA though. Although you don't have the Grail passive, both Seraphs and Grail now give the same Mp5, which makes Tear a little more attractive to me. Plus they do give you a LOT more AP (100% ratio on E is very tantalising). CDR is really nice though, particularly so your ult comes up faster after a cancel. Plus your E just trucks people so having that up more is nice.

I must experiment more.

On July 07 2014 16:55 Alaric wrote:
Better option: you don't play Anivia. If you really need your bird fix, there's always Swain anyway, best bird.

I already usually pick Swain when I have to top. Just looking to extend my bird repertoire.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-07 08:15:09
July 07 2014 08:11 GMT
#723
On July 07 2014 15:42 JazzVortical wrote:
Anyone here play much Anivia or know what the best combination of mana items is for her? Or is it conditional and best to judge on a game by game basis? Seems like you need two mana items for her.

Grail plus RoA is nice for the combination of CDR, Regen and overall mana pool. From what I've watched, this option seems like the go.
RoA plus Tear gives you a tonne of mana and AP, but no CDR. Seraph's active is pretty nice though.
Grail plus Tear means you have to itemise HP/defense elsewhere (maybe Rylai's and Liandry's?), but you've got plenty of mana.

I really like chalice>roa>grail/dcap+void. While you can go straight grail, you have to be very careful with mana usage even with blue, because you can run oom incredibly quickly without a pool to back it up. Having a pool also lets you place ulti down on one side of a tower, wall the other side, and then get 6 seconds for your team to just hit tower for free, without taxing your mana pool too heavily from the 500+ mana cost. With just grail if you try that, you have one rotation if the other team engages through, or immediately after that. Also grail adds CDR, which is nice because of the 2x 1.0 scaling nukes along with ult repositioning.

I think tear+roa is now outdated because the game has gotten so much quicker, and your team can no longer afford to have you sit on your ass for 30 minutes while you build up to a 750AP lategame. You also run oom gradually with that build, even if it does take you a long time.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 07 2014 08:29 GMT
#724
I've been going Tear/Morellonomicon a lot on my mana heavy mids after they nerfed athenes.

For 300g more than athenes you get
80ap
16mp5
20cdr
250-1000mana

plus grievous wounds and tear passive which is usually at least another 5mp5, plus it sets you up to build seraphs later which is obviously ludicrously strong.

compared to athenes
60ap
25mr
10mp5
20cdr

and mana passives
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 07 2014 08:56 GMT
#725
No, really. Noone needs Anivia in their lives.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Duvon
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden2360 Posts
July 07 2014 09:37 GMT
#726
On July 07 2014 17:56 Alaric wrote:
No, really. Noone needs Anivia in their lives.

Come now, Swain is just a ranged version of Riven anyway.
Nothing is impossible, only some things for some people.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 07 2014 09:50 GMT
#727
The amusing part is that Riven actually has more reach than him.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 07 2014 11:21 GMT
#728
Watching Rohammers having some trouble against a Blitzcrank top in mid plat makes me feel better about my own Tryndamere play.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 07 2014 11:27 GMT
#729
On July 07 2014 18:50 Alaric wrote:
The amusing part is that Riven actually has more reach than him.

yeah...but does riven have an ability that gives her 20% extra damage!!

oh.
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-07 14:02:58
July 07 2014 14:01 GMT
#730
On July 07 2014 17:05 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2014 16:45 OhTwoMise wrote:
On July 07 2014 15:42 JazzVortical wrote:
Anyone here play much Anivia or know what the best combination of mana items is for her? Or is it conditional and best to judge on a game by game basis? Seems like you need two mana items for her.

Grail plus RoA is nice for the combination of CDR, Regen and overall mana pool. From what I've watched, this option seems like the go.
RoA plus Tear gives you a tonne of mana and AP, but no CDR. Seraph's active is pretty nice though.
Grail plus Tear means you have to itemise HP/defense elsewhere (maybe Rylai's and Liandry's?), but you've got plenty of mana.


I think you need to just learn to read the game. Grail/Rod is by far the safest option and is probably good enough in the majority of cases, but it's not always the best. Grail/Tear is much stronger if you can get it without being significantly punished. I've never really liked Rod/Tear. You have a big enough pool for MOST fights, but you will eventually run dry, meaning you will have to base more often. There are also games where you just need faster damage for a variety of reasons. Consider something like Chalice-->damage here, upgrading Grail when you think you have time.

In general, I would always get Grail. Both passives are much better on Anivia than most other champions, most of which always rush Grail anyway. CDR is also pretty underrated by a lot of players in my experience, both on Anivia and in general. There was a period of time where I decided to just try CDR in a bunch of places people don't normally build it and was pleasantly surprised at how strong it was most of the time, even with somewhat awkward mixes of combat stats.

Grail alone CAN be sufficient, but if you don't have pressing need to get a non-mana second item (which will generally be either faster damage or Zhonya's), you should probably just get the second mana item. You guarantee and accelerate your farm, have greater freedom of movement, spend less time in base, and occasionally teamfights just get weird and you need the extra mana, even starting from full with a Grail. It also severely lessens your dependence on blue, particularly in defensive positions, where you're both less likely to have the blue and more likely to use a bunch of mana before the fight breaks out.

Caveat: It's been many moons since I played a lot of Anivia, but I think the principles are mostly unchanged.

Edit: Quote formatting

Thanks. I've been watching a lot of Anivia games and most of the time they do go RoA and Grail, probably because it's the most well rounded out of all the options. I do want to try Tear/RoA though. Although you don't have the Grail passive, both Seraphs and Grail now give the same Mp5, which makes Tear a little more attractive to me. Plus they do give you a LOT more AP (100% ratio on E is very tantalising). CDR is really nice though, particularly so your ult comes up faster after a cancel. Plus your E just trucks people so having that up more is nice.

I must experiment more.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2014 16:55 Alaric wrote:
Better option: you don't play Anivia. If you really need your bird fix, there's always Swain anyway, best bird.

I already usually pick Swain when I have to top. Just looking to extend my bird repertoire.


I don't know if this will be useful to you but for the last couple of patches I have been maining Zilean mid and he has HUGE mana gating issues similar to Anivia. I tried every combination of chalice/roa/seraphs and the build that felt the best to me was always tear into ROA but once you get to late game you need 40% CDR on pretty much every mid so I was running ROA/chalice. Then I figured why not try CDR boots, after all Fishing for Urf goes them every game and his damage seems decent. I run 15% CDR, 5% from masteries (21/0/9) and accept the 15AP hit on quints with 3 blues for the other 10%. If you feel confident, both blues and quints are equally efficient for CDR so you can exchange MR for AP to fit your needs. This lets you rush tear/ROA and once you get boots right after you will have 30% CDR which goes to 40% with blue pot or blue buff. AP is a really weak stat early on anyways and while I love the 15 flat magic pen it doesn't seem to affect me as harshly as I thought it would. I know anivia is way more aggressive with her spells early on in a lot of matchups but you are likely not getting tier 2 boots until pretty late in the laning phase either way so it is up to you if you think the 15 flat pen is an untouchable commodity.

I love it and have had good results, cant hurt for you to give it a game.
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-07 14:50:48
July 07 2014 14:14 GMT
#731
Because of all this Vlad talk I decided to check the wiki on him just for kicks but I noticed something I've never thought about before. Has anyone ever tried using DFG during Vlad's Ult? According to the wiki if you cast Ult then wait at least 1 second and cast DFG, they will amplify each others damages and their debuffs will stack so they take 32% increased damage.

-edit: Theoretically full AP Vlad should 100-0 any squishy with this combo. However they have 1 second to flash before you use DFG and they have 5 seconds for Heals/Shields to come into play assuming your team can't deal some sort of damage to them. And of course QSS is a hard counter but a semi-bruiser with the possibility of deleting a carry could have some merit or am I just wishfully thinking.
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
July 07 2014 16:20 GMT
#732
i ran into a dfg vlad once. i wanted to shoot him for rushing dfg first and dying before he even casted his ult
im deaf
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 07 2014 17:05 GMT
#733
DFG vlad is about as good as AD Ahri.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 07 2014 17:16 GMT
#734
So, top tier troll build?
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 07 2014 17:41 GMT
#735
On July 08 2014 02:05 Sufficiency wrote:
DFG vlad is about as good as AD Ahri.

AD Ahri used to be okay when Muramana was broken as fuck.
liftlift > tsm
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 07 2014 17:42 GMT
#736
On July 08 2014 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2014 02:05 Sufficiency wrote:
DFG vlad is about as good as AD Ahri.

AD Ahri used to be okay when Muramana was broken as fuck.

what
lol
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
July 07 2014 18:04 GMT
#737
General advice to EUW players I am in a ranked game that just dropped us all for the second time, play at your own risk.
GreggSauce
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States566 Posts
July 07 2014 18:07 GMT
#738
still have yet to see a maokai do more than be a nuisance
Must not sleep, must warn others
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 07 2014 18:11 GMT
#739
On July 08 2014 03:07 GreggSauce wrote:
still have yet to see a maokai do more than be a nuisance

You cant expect him to carry lol, he has some very brutal ganks with a spammable knockup/root(which actually probably does okay damage since it does %max health) past 20 minutes his damage is non existant, but you can offer god level peels for your adc that you hopefully snowballed really hard.
that or your midlane
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
July 07 2014 18:20 GMT
#740
The fact that Riot hasn't banned Bistre (known NA DDoS-er) is a joke. So much proof and evidence that he is doing this and no action has been taken.
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft426
Nina 9
RuFF_SC2 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2090
GuemChi 1545
Artosis 489
NaDa 19
Light 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever684
League of Legends
Doublelift4847
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi0
Other Games
summit1g4918
FrodaN641
shahzam534
C9.Mang0304
Maynarde106
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick912
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 158
• davetesta2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki17
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra955
Other Games
• Shiphtur507
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1m
The PondCast
9h 31m
Kung Fu Cup
10h 31m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 10h
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
FEL
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.