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[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 28

Forum Index > LoL General
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GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 05 2014 00:22 GMT
#541
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
July 05 2014 00:50 GMT
#542
On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote:
BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless.
Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that.
Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.

Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range.


Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion)
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
July 05 2014 00:51 GMT
#543
It is fair to call it niche though, lots of CC's totally ignore Mikeals. Well, just Knockups, but thats a lot of CC's.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 05 2014 00:55 GMT
#544
Well, even in the assassin heyday right before s3 world championships, your job was to assassinate the support and then your team would be able to win the 4v5. You can't do that as easily against supports that are not ward bots. Plus, no team can dominate vision like before.

So, in reality, an assassin needs to be op to be good right now.
Freeeeeeedom
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
July 05 2014 01:03 GMT
#545
On July 05 2014 09:50 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote:
BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless.
Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that.
Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.

Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range.


Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion)

Yeah using exhaust/fotm/ult/w and a slow and a stun.So bad.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 05 2014 01:07 GMT
#546
the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either
Carrilord has arrived.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
July 05 2014 01:16 GMT
#547
On July 05 2014 10:07 Slusher wrote:
the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either

Yeah, if you get 3 solo kills in a row you'll gain 795 gold from the kills alone. Then when you die, if your lane opponent got the kill and was assisted by a teammate (supportive champs get fewer solo kills compared to assasins) then your opponent's team gets 615 gold back, and the assist potentially increases the bounty on the assisster. So for all your work your team is just up 180 gold. Kill gold didn't give your team a permanent edge unless you never died or you got the kills with a teammate. If you got a kill you needed to deny farm afterwards, or get objectives like dragon with your advantage to grow your advantage.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 05 2014 01:16 GMT
#548
On July 05 2014 03:56 gtrsrs wrote:
no e3, it's a new riot-made mode coming out soonish. that stream is from the PBE
it looks awesome
reminds me of an old really-well-done WC3 custom map called "impossible bosses" (i think it was called that)
i could never get enough friends together to beat that map (could beat the first of eight[?] bosses with 2 people and a lot of time, but it was impossible after that). hopefully doom bots are a real challenge and as fun as they look to play against


Totally. IB was fucking awesome.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
July 05 2014 01:41 GMT
#549
I'm pretty sure LeBlanc was a fine assassin pick recently. Sure she's been nerfed now, but she was dominating not all that long ago. Fizz sees a bit of play every now and then too. Syndra is basically an assassin at the moment.

Not saying assassins as a whole are in a good spot, but you do see the occasional one. I do think Zed can actually be given a small buff (maybe the speed of his shadow could be reverted, at least partially), and Talon really should be sorted out.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 05 2014 01:46 GMT
#550
Fizz has a lot of problems because QasS and Zhonya counter him too much.

LB will probably not see any more play for rest of the year.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 05 2014 01:50 GMT
#551
Leblanc was good because she was op in the hands of pros and riot playtesters could not figure out why. Plus she was also able to poke really well so she didn't have to assassinate to be useful. She played more like a mobile syndra than a ranged fizz.
Freeeeeeedom
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-05 03:12:42
July 05 2014 03:09 GMT
#552
I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.

Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-05 03:37:08
July 05 2014 03:35 GMT
#553
On July 05 2014 12:09 Kinie wrote:
I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.

Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up.

karthus will always be a niche pick. Overwhelming against the right team, but a lot of mid lane picks right now wreck him.
Malz - No.
Annie - Usable even now. Mostly problems against better teams who can play against instant 1k range hard initiate.
Vel'koz - hasn't seen competitive play outside support, as a semi-troll pick.
kat - Support changes hurt. No more squishy to get a free reset. No teams pick 5 squishies, and only a few pick 4.

Liss - various issues. Kit favors top more than mid tbh.
Ahri - Usable against certain picks.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 05 2014 03:37 GMT
#554
I tried picking up Karthus on my smurf. I'm 0-5.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
July 05 2014 03:47 GMT
#555
On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.


Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 04:01 GMT
#556
On July 05 2014 12:47 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.


Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood

Let's be honest here. If you got enough gold for 2 support items outside of sightstone and gold generation item. What items are you gunna get? Mikaels and locket are gunna be your go to choice 99% of the time.
liftlift > tsm
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2400 Posts
July 05 2014 04:42 GMT
#557
Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?

On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana!
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 04:57 GMT
#558
On July 05 2014 13:42 Ethelis wrote:
Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?

On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana!

Athene's nerf should hardly affect Lux, if anything all her matchups are better because of it. The 100-0 becomes an actual threat in lane now. Outside of matchups like Syndra, you should be getting morello's which is the better buy most of the time anyways.
liftlift > tsm
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
July 05 2014 05:03 GMT
#559
I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 05:08 GMT
#560
On July 05 2014 14:03 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better.

I don't think new StoAG changes anything in regards to jungle meta. It doesn't make tanky junglers clear any faster than before, which was primarily the big problem. Building offensive jungle items, and offensive items meant no only did you get the same clear buff as old AG, you also got faster clear because of the fact you built offensive. They could have just as easily buffed AG's +bonus to monster dmg, and that would have solved a lot of the problems tanky junglers were having.
liftlift > tsm
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