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On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote: I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?
Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.
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On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote: BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless. Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that. Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.
Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range.
Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion)
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It is fair to call it niche though, lots of CC's totally ignore Mikeals. Well, just Knockups, but thats a lot of CC's.
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Well, even in the assassin heyday right before s3 world championships, your job was to assassinate the support and then your team would be able to win the 4v5. You can't do that as easily against supports that are not ward bots. Plus, no team can dominate vision like before.
So, in reality, an assassin needs to be op to be good right now.
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On July 05 2014 09:50 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote: BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless. Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that. Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.
Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range. Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion) Yeah using exhaust/fotm/ult/w and a slow and a stun.So bad.
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the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either
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On July 05 2014 10:07 Slusher wrote: the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either Yeah, if you get 3 solo kills in a row you'll gain 795 gold from the kills alone. Then when you die, if your lane opponent got the kill and was assisted by a teammate (supportive champs get fewer solo kills compared to assasins) then your opponent's team gets 615 gold back, and the assist potentially increases the bounty on the assisster. So for all your work your team is just up 180 gold. Kill gold didn't give your team a permanent edge unless you never died or you got the kills with a teammate. If you got a kill you needed to deny farm afterwards, or get objectives like dragon with your advantage to grow your advantage.
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On July 05 2014 03:56 gtrsrs wrote:no e3, it's a new riot-made mode coming out soonish. that stream is from the PBE it looks awesome reminds me of an old really-well-done WC3 custom map called "impossible bosses" (i think it was called that) i could never get enough friends together to beat that map (could beat the first of eight[?] bosses with 2 people and a lot of time, but it was impossible after that). hopefully doom bots are a real challenge and as fun as they look to play against 
Totally. IB was fucking awesome.
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I'm pretty sure LeBlanc was a fine assassin pick recently. Sure she's been nerfed now, but she was dominating not all that long ago. Fizz sees a bit of play every now and then too. Syndra is basically an assassin at the moment.
Not saying assassins as a whole are in a good spot, but you do see the occasional one. I do think Zed can actually be given a small buff (maybe the speed of his shadow could be reverted, at least partially), and Talon really should be sorted out.
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Fizz has a lot of problems because QasS and Zhonya counter him too much.
LB will probably not see any more play for rest of the year.
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Leblanc was good because she was op in the hands of pros and riot playtesters could not figure out why. Plus she was also able to poke really well so she didn't have to assassinate to be useful. She played more like a mobile syndra than a ranged fizz.
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United States3106 Posts
I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.
Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up.
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On July 05 2014 12:09 Kinie wrote: I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.
Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up. karthus will always be a niche pick. Overwhelming against the right team, but a lot of mid lane picks right now wreck him. Malz - No. Annie - Usable even now. Mostly problems against better teams who can play against instant 1k range hard initiate. Vel'koz - hasn't seen competitive play outside support, as a semi-troll pick. kat - Support changes hurt. No more squishy to get a free reset. No teams pick 5 squishies, and only a few pick 4.
Liss - various issues. Kit favors top more than mid tbh. Ahri - Usable against certain picks.
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I tried picking up Karthus on my smurf. I'm 0-5.
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On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote: I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years? Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.
Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood
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On July 05 2014 12:47 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote: I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years? Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports. Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood Let's be honest here. If you got enough gold for 2 support items outside of sightstone and gold generation item. What items are you gunna get? Mikaels and locket are gunna be your go to choice 99% of the time.
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Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?
On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana!
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On July 05 2014 13:42 Ethelis wrote: Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?
On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana! Athene's nerf should hardly affect Lux, if anything all her matchups are better because of it. The 100-0 becomes an actual threat in lane now. Outside of matchups like Syndra, you should be getting morello's which is the better buy most of the time anyways.
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I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better.
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On July 05 2014 14:03 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better. I don't think new StoAG changes anything in regards to jungle meta. It doesn't make tanky junglers clear any faster than before, which was primarily the big problem. Building offensive jungle items, and offensive items meant no only did you get the same clear buff as old AG, you also got faster clear because of the fact you built offensive. They could have just as easily buffed AG's +bonus to monster dmg, and that would have solved a lot of the problems tanky junglers were having.
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