• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:06
CET 13:06
KST 21:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT24Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0226LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) How do the "codes" work in GSL? Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
A new season just kicks off BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ CasterMuse Youtube TvZ is the most complete match up ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1673 users

[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 28

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 72 Next
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 05 2014 00:22 GMT
#541
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
July 05 2014 00:50 GMT
#542
On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote:
BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless.
Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that.
Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.

Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range.


Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion)
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
July 05 2014 00:51 GMT
#543
It is fair to call it niche though, lots of CC's totally ignore Mikeals. Well, just Knockups, but thats a lot of CC's.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 05 2014 00:55 GMT
#544
Well, even in the assassin heyday right before s3 world championships, your job was to assassinate the support and then your team would be able to win the 4v5. You can't do that as easily against supports that are not ward bots. Plus, no team can dominate vision like before.

So, in reality, an assassin needs to be op to be good right now.
Freeeeeeedom
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
July 05 2014 01:03 GMT
#545
On July 05 2014 09:50 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 08:48 Alaric wrote:
BotRK doesn't do much when the guy gets 30% damage reduction regardless.
Riven would get wrecked in 1v2 and you're gonna eat it if the enemy team sees you pick that.
Assassins don't work as well because shit like Braum, Thresh, etc. are popular, and because Exhaust transforms "I caught you!" into "I just offered myself to you!", while Heal ensures that they'll live anyway.

Plus try and assassinate Ziggs clearing from 1500 range.


Braum is actually weak to melee assassinate compared to the other supports, his e does nothing against them and if he doesn't have his ult he has no way to peel whatsoever (plus he has to be standing right on his carry when the assassin comes in and not disabled or he can't do anything in time). The main reason that you don't see a lot of assassins anymore is because they were nerfed significantly and because of the exhaust change to be -50% damage. (Strong against any sort of all in champion)

Yeah using exhaust/fotm/ult/w and a slow and a stun.So bad.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 05 2014 01:07 GMT
#546
the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either
Carrilord has arrived.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
July 05 2014 01:16 GMT
#547
On July 05 2014 10:07 Slusher wrote:
the bounty system before this patch didn't help assassins either

Yeah, if you get 3 solo kills in a row you'll gain 795 gold from the kills alone. Then when you die, if your lane opponent got the kill and was assisted by a teammate (supportive champs get fewer solo kills compared to assasins) then your opponent's team gets 615 gold back, and the assist potentially increases the bounty on the assisster. So for all your work your team is just up 180 gold. Kill gold didn't give your team a permanent edge unless you never died or you got the kills with a teammate. If you got a kill you needed to deny farm afterwards, or get objectives like dragon with your advantage to grow your advantage.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 05 2014 01:16 GMT
#548
On July 05 2014 03:56 gtrsrs wrote:
no e3, it's a new riot-made mode coming out soonish. that stream is from the PBE
it looks awesome
reminds me of an old really-well-done WC3 custom map called "impossible bosses" (i think it was called that)
i could never get enough friends together to beat that map (could beat the first of eight[?] bosses with 2 people and a lot of time, but it was impossible after that). hopefully doom bots are a real challenge and as fun as they look to play against


Totally. IB was fucking awesome.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
July 05 2014 01:41 GMT
#549
I'm pretty sure LeBlanc was a fine assassin pick recently. Sure she's been nerfed now, but she was dominating not all that long ago. Fizz sees a bit of play every now and then too. Syndra is basically an assassin at the moment.

Not saying assassins as a whole are in a good spot, but you do see the occasional one. I do think Zed can actually be given a small buff (maybe the speed of his shadow could be reverted, at least partially), and Talon really should be sorted out.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 05 2014 01:46 GMT
#550
Fizz has a lot of problems because QasS and Zhonya counter him too much.

LB will probably not see any more play for rest of the year.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 05 2014 01:50 GMT
#551
Leblanc was good because she was op in the hands of pros and riot playtesters could not figure out why. Plus she was also able to poke really well so she didn't have to assassinate to be useful. She played more like a mobile syndra than a ranged fizz.
Freeeeeeedom
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-05 03:12:42
July 05 2014 03:09 GMT
#552
I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.

Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-05 03:37:08
July 05 2014 03:35 GMT
#553
On July 05 2014 12:09 Kinie wrote:
I think some other champs we might see come back to mid are Ahri and maybe Lissandra. The other mages that (in my eyes) are not there yet or aren't right for the meta include: Karthus, Malzahar, Annie, Vel'Koz, and Kat.

Personally I think LB's silence should have been moved to the chains, where it applies when the chains lock, to basically make the LBs want to stick in and have the chain proc again for the silence + snare (tradeoff being you need a boatload of MP for both cast + 2nd proc to apply the silence + snare, and you can't Zhonyas in the middle of the chain application to have it stick.) Yes, it would've made her a gimmicky champ, where if you don't get the chains to proc again she's worthless, but it still keeps the high skill cap there for the pros to try and eek out that last bit of damage before the enemy team blows them up.

karthus will always be a niche pick. Overwhelming against the right team, but a lot of mid lane picks right now wreck him.
Malz - No.
Annie - Usable even now. Mostly problems against better teams who can play against instant 1k range hard initiate.
Vel'koz - hasn't seen competitive play outside support, as a semi-troll pick.
kat - Support changes hurt. No more squishy to get a free reset. No teams pick 5 squishies, and only a few pick 4.

Liss - various issues. Kit favors top more than mid tbh.
Ahri - Usable against certain picks.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 05 2014 03:37 GMT
#554
I tried picking up Karthus on my smurf. I'm 0-5.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
July 05 2014 03:47 GMT
#555
On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.


Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 04:01 GMT
#556
On July 05 2014 12:47 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2014 09:22 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 05 2014 02:49 GTPGlitch wrote:
I know mikael's is generally considered a shit item now but wouldn't that go pretty well with maokai's tank/peel role while providing him with enough mana for years?


Who considers mikael's a shit item? It's still core on supports.


Sorry it was my impression earlier that the over boost for mregen made it ungood

Let's be honest here. If you got enough gold for 2 support items outside of sightstone and gold generation item. What items are you gunna get? Mikaels and locket are gunna be your go to choice 99% of the time.
liftlift > tsm
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2397 Posts
July 05 2014 04:42 GMT
#557
Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?

On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana!
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 04:57 GMT
#558
On July 05 2014 13:42 Ethelis wrote:
Playing Lux after the Athene's nerfs feels so...icky?

On the other hand, less MR on Athene's = more fun for Diana!

Athene's nerf should hardly affect Lux, if anything all her matchups are better because of it. The 100-0 becomes an actual threat in lane now. Outside of matchups like Syndra, you should be getting morello's which is the better buy most of the time anyways.
liftlift > tsm
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
July 05 2014 05:03 GMT
#559
I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 05 2014 05:08 GMT
#560
On July 05 2014 14:03 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I take back any of the things I said about Zac jungle being solid. While he's obviously better now than he was recently he was still gutted too much many patches ago. If they either changed his ult back or rebuffed his E he'd be fine, but as it is he just isn't worth it. The other support/tanky junglers are better.

I don't think new StoAG changes anything in regards to jungle meta. It doesn't make tanky junglers clear any faster than before, which was primarily the big problem. Building offensive jungle items, and offensive items meant no only did you get the same clear buff as old AG, you also got faster clear because of the fact you built offensive. They could have just as easily buffed AG's +bonus to monster dmg, and that would have solved a lot of the problems tanky junglers were having.
liftlift > tsm
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Epic.LAN
12:00
#47 - Day 1
Liquipedia
PiG Sty Festival
09:00
Group B
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
PiGStarcraft1038
TKL 308
IndyStarCraft 197
Rex139
BRAT_OK 120
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft1038
TKL 308
IndyStarCraft 197
Rex 139
BRAT_OK 120
Lowko101
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 6656
Rain 3479
PianO 2351
GuemChi 2164
BeSt 1345
Jaedong 957
Hyuk 505
actioN 320
Light 277
Hyun 215
[ Show more ]
Soma 179
Mini 157
ZerO 146
Dewaltoss 120
Snow 116
Pusan 109
ggaemo 84
hero 76
Soulkey 72
Killer 68
Mong 68
Aegong 67
Rush 65
Mind 64
Sharp 55
JYJ 55
Barracks 54
Sea.KH 40
Nal_rA 36
Backho 34
ToSsGirL 34
sSak 30
[sc1f]eonzerg 29
JulyZerg 28
Yoon 22
Free 22
Icarus 21
910 21
GoRush 21
yabsab 19
zelot 16
Hm[arnc] 15
Bale 14
Movie 13
Noble 12
SilentControl 12
Shine 11
NotJumperer 10
ivOry 5
Terrorterran 2
Britney 2
Dota 2
Gorgc2727
XaKoH 543
XcaliburYe74
canceldota8
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1853
zeus1209
m0e_tv406
Other Games
singsing2075
shoxiejesuss772
B2W.Neo554
Fuzer 217
crisheroes163
Happy151
ToD103
Hui .101
Trikslyr24
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL31042
Other Games
gamesdonequick623
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco313
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV211
League of Legends
• Stunt622
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
4h 54m
Harstem vs MaNa
Reynor vs SKillous
Replay Cast
11h 54m
PiG Sty Festival
20h 54m
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
21h 54m
Epic.LAN
23h 54m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 20h
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-19
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.