• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:47
CET 19:47
KST 03:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness"
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10384 users

[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 23

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 72 Next
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-03 20:29:10
July 03 2014 20:27 GMT
#441
Unlock all the 450's at lvl 10, give a non-refundable coupon that you can buy any champ with at lvl 20 and 30

I like 1 and t2 runes, you'll get a couple good runes out of combining, and the increased ease when leveling is well worth it.

Also dat feel when you hit the jackpot, combine 3 410ip t2 quints for a t3 movespeed
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-03 20:32:33
July 03 2014 20:31 GMT
#442
runes are total bullshit at low levels anyway, I'm silver 2 with two rune pages and dear god is their some fundamental shit i need to be worrying about that isn't whether i needed hybrid pen or ad quints or whatever the fuck it is

edit: cant you conceivably get to diamond or plat at least with an ap/ad rune page anyway
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-03 20:35:55
July 03 2014 20:35 GMT
#443
On July 04 2014 05:31 Klonere wrote:
runes are total bullshit at low levels anyway, I'm silver 2 with two rune pages and dear god is their some fundamental shit i need to be worrying about that isn't whether i needed hybrid pen or ad quints or whatever the fuck it is

edit: cant you conceivably get to diamond or plat at least with an ap/ad rune page anyway


Yes. But people love to blame all the niggily shit that isn't their play on their performance. Thats why i went 0/10 in jungle, i had support runes.
Useless wet fish.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 03 2014 20:38 GMT
#444
On July 04 2014 05:31 Klonere wrote:
runes are total bullshit at low levels anyway, I'm silver 2 with two rune pages and dear god is their some fundamental shit i need to be worrying about that isn't whether i needed hybrid pen or ad quints or whatever the fuck it is

edit: cant you conceivably get to diamond or plat at least with an ap/ad rune page anyway

iirc tier 1 and tier 2 are insanely ip efficient.
liftlift > tsm
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-03 20:53:04
July 03 2014 20:52 GMT
#445
On July 04 2014 05:35 Capped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 05:31 Klonere wrote:
runes are total bullshit at low levels anyway, I'm silver 2 with two rune pages and dear god is their some fundamental shit i need to be worrying about that isn't whether i needed hybrid pen or ad quints or whatever the fuck it is

edit: cant you conceivably get to diamond or plat at least with an ap/ad rune page anyway


Yes. But people love to blame all the niggily shit that isn't their play on their performance. Thats why i went 0/10 in jungle, i had support runes.

Shit, remember when "jungle runes" were actually a thing? You didn't have that shit you were dead unless you were on Warwick or Udyr.

On July 04 2014 05:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 05:31 Klonere wrote:
runes are total bullshit at low levels anyway, I'm silver 2 with two rune pages and dear god is their some fundamental shit i need to be worrying about that isn't whether i needed hybrid pen or ad quints or whatever the fuck it is

edit: cant you conceivably get to diamond or plat at least with an ap/ad rune page anyway

iirc tier 1 and tier 2 are insanely ip efficient.

Tier 1 is. Tier 2 is garbage no matter which was you slice it.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 03 2014 20:53 GMT
#446
On July 04 2014 05:26 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think the champion pool is large enough but I didn't know there were that many bots on SR now. Riot really needs to get rid of these botters. If they don't then I fear for the growth of the game if new players only face bots. If they have the statistics, then it should be easy to identify bots.

Yeah bots only slightly less common than new players at low levels. it gets worse the more you lose, and some bots are designed to surrender at 20 automatically. the day i went on a 5-6 game losing streak the last game i played literally had 9 bots. thats obviously going to be a rarity, but even once is enough to make a new player stop playing for the day or week.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 03 2014 21:06 GMT
#447
Bots aren't the problem, the grind is the problem. There is a reason games like WOW don't let you get top tier equipment via things that don't require skill.
Freeeeeeedom
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-03 21:10:33
July 03 2014 21:09 GMT
#448
On July 04 2014 06:06 cLutZ wrote:
Bots aren't the problem, the grind is the problem. There is a reason games like WOW don't let you get top tier equipment via things that don't require skill.

everything combines to make a terrible experience for new players. to enjoy leveling nowadays you have to be the asshole duoing with a lvl 30 because at least then you have a friend.
OhTwoMise
Profile Joined September 2012
United States164 Posts
July 03 2014 21:26 GMT
#449
On July 04 2014 04:04 Slusher wrote:
in my eyes I just see @lvl30

worthlessnes

or

+2ad

I mean going back to the argument of the casual player I can't be sure what they think but I do remember when I first leveled following my mobofire Merc treads BC rush Trist guide, and buying all the runes it told me to, and being really fucking salty about wasting the ip when I learned more about the game.


They may be worthless at 30, but the breakeven on wins granting additional IP is pretty low. You might even come out ahead if you're the type who likes to all-in a lot in lane.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 03 2014 21:59 GMT
#450
On July 04 2014 05:26 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 03:35 Slusher wrote:
On July 04 2014 03:28 ticklishmusic wrote:
On July 04 2014 02:31 arb wrote:
On July 04 2014 02:19 ticklishmusic wrote:
If you build AD on Kayle, you have lifesteal so less healing on W isn't a problem

Also, you get low, pop intervention and heal back to full in a few autos huehue

Building AD means that your spells are more for utility than damage, and it should work out ok that way.

The biggest problem is still you have to go out of your way to build cdr, which isnt as impressive for AD as compared to AP, unless you went like blue build or something, i guess that could work


Blue build has pretty bad damage though, and Kayle isn't very spammy. Then again, you might be able to do some insane Muramana + IBG + Essence Reaver type thing.

I'm thinking Zephyr + Ghostblade is a good start far as CDR goes, though it doesn't feel like enough damage. Could consider CDR boots b/c of a ton of atkspd already and some runes/ masteries as well, that gets you close to 40.

EDIT: the 25% bonus hp is insane. Midgame you can tank 3-4 extra tower shots.


what about Yommu > Runnan > Reaver > IE > ???
with zerks in there when appropriate. I think this build has promise. a lot of people might shit on reaver but you really don't need Reaver on kayle until after you are maxing Q and W, and it really doesn't return a ton of man until you have runnan's anyway

just an idea I'd like to try

Not going Nashor's and AP is just silly. It's so stupidly strong to have an extra AP ratio on your auto attack as Kayle. I don't see the point in aiming for a 4-item timing when you can aim for a more effective 2-item or 3-item timing.

Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 04:22 arb wrote:
On July 04 2014 04:20 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 04 2014 04:09 Goumindong wrote:
The time and progression to level 30 does a good job of forcing people to learn the mechanics of the game. The gradual addition of mechanics while it seems pointless for people who know all those mechanics already let's those who don't ease into the situation. Giving them the brick wall of mechanics at once isn't a great idea if you want to retain players and have a large knowledge requirement be manageable

How are masteries+runes brickwall of mechanics?
IP is still a progression requirement for runes, so there's always that.
I wish summoners/masteries/(ability to purchase runes) were open at level 1.
Make level progressions have specific rewards at different level progressions. Making it so by the time you get to 30 you have all the tools necessary to start ranked.
For example every X level you gain champ/runepage/rune.

riot will never give people free champions runepages or runes
ever
outside of certain giveaways for liking their stuff or something like that.

I have received:
2-3 runepages
Trist + Riot Skin
Corki + UFO Skin
Chogath + Nightmare Skin
Alistar + I forget which skin
Pantheon + Artisan Skin
Rammus + Bowser Skin
Kayle + Victorious Skin
Jarvan + Victorious Skin

All for free. I might be missing one or two.

okay
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 03 2014 22:38 GMT
#451
I got:

Sona + skin - main and smurf
Graves + skin - main and smurf

:D
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
July 03 2014 23:20 GMT
#452
janna has a victorious skin, i think kayle's isn't victorious - everyone got it that played in season 1 (I have it and I didn't play ranked yet in s1)
A backwards poet writes inverse.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 03 2014 23:26 GMT
#453
On July 04 2014 08:20 Dandel Ion wrote:
janna has a victorious skin, i think kayle's isn't victorious - everyone got it that played in season 1 (I have it and I didn't play ranked yet in s1)

It's Jarvan/Janna/Elise with Victorious skin, Idk what the Kayle skin is for, but i got it too lol.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 03 2014 23:30 GMT
#454
Judgement kayle. i thought it was for finishing your placements in ranked.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
July 03 2014 23:47 GMT
#455
no I checked it was just playing 10 games in general

didn't have to be ranked

As I said i didn't play ranked in season 1 at all so I can confirm
A backwards poet writes inverse.
derc
Profile Joined November 2011
France126 Posts
July 03 2014 23:55 GMT
#456
On July 04 2014 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
no I checked it was just playing 10 games in general

didn't have to be ranked

As I said i didn't play ranked in season 1 at all so I can confirm

same for me.

got also some other skins from free rp gift, don't remember why, back in s2.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 04 2014 00:29 GMT
#457
On July 04 2014 05:20 PrinceXizor wrote:
The problem is the experience of leveling now that a the majority of the players in the game are already level thirty, is terrible. i've played 44 games with 23 of them involving a leveling bot, the others were massive stomps one way or the other involving smurf accounts. so in 44 games i think there have been maybe 2-3 where i was the only peson ruining the experience by smurfing. you don't slowly learn the game the first 50-60 games. you get stomped. if you win a few games in a row you are a level 5-6 account playing vs flash ignite, and if you lose em, you are a lvl 4-5 account playing with 2-3 bots in a game.

It also took less than half the time to hit 30 back when i first leveled. i hit level 30 after maybe 100 normal wins so probably like 200 games. i have about 400 games to go from 44 before i hit 30 now with this new account. and the majority of the levels you gain up to 12 mean nothing, because you can sometimes just run into a stomp where your team is ghost heal x3-4 and they have flash ignite/everything and 5-7 more mastery points, so they are at an even bigger advantage. whats worse is that lvl 30 is a very significant source of power also, at lvl 30 you get your secondary mastery tree filled, you get a 3rd quint. thats a big jump in power you should have to get used to. lets not forget that if you spend 450+ games playing you are looking at having maybe 65000 ip if you consistently win games every day and play over the course of 9-10 months. thats enough for the 16 cheapest champs for 11700, and enough ip leftover to fill your starting 2 rune pages. so you can jump into ranked, but with only access to annie, Ashe, Garen, Kayle, Master Yi, Nunu, Poppy, Ryze, Sivir, Soraka, Warwick and 5 of: the group that includes like morgana, Jax, Janna, Tristana, Nasus. those are probably the 5 best right now from that group. but playing ranked with that makes you so vulnerable to any meta shift at all.

its not even a fun experience for new players from 1-30, You can't say it is anymore at all. The amount of new players complaining about the community and the game in early levels is like 60% of the ones i run into. there are maybe 3-4 new players per game at most. and a lot of smurfs take the games as seriously as ranked, and flame the hell out of people, after all, most of these smurfs are people with banned accounts.


Filling two rune pages costs over 50k IP...? With 26k IP at level 30 on my smurf, I filled two rune pages and was able to get two 4,800 IP champions.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 04 2014 00:30 GMT
#458
On July 04 2014 09:29 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 05:20 PrinceXizor wrote:
The problem is the experience of leveling now that a the majority of the players in the game are already level thirty, is terrible. i've played 44 games with 23 of them involving a leveling bot, the others were massive stomps one way or the other involving smurf accounts. so in 44 games i think there have been maybe 2-3 where i was the only peson ruining the experience by smurfing. you don't slowly learn the game the first 50-60 games. you get stomped. if you win a few games in a row you are a level 5-6 account playing vs flash ignite, and if you lose em, you are a lvl 4-5 account playing with 2-3 bots in a game.

It also took less than half the time to hit 30 back when i first leveled. i hit level 30 after maybe 100 normal wins so probably like 200 games. i have about 400 games to go from 44 before i hit 30 now with this new account. and the majority of the levels you gain up to 12 mean nothing, because you can sometimes just run into a stomp where your team is ghost heal x3-4 and they have flash ignite/everything and 5-7 more mastery points, so they are at an even bigger advantage. whats worse is that lvl 30 is a very significant source of power also, at lvl 30 you get your secondary mastery tree filled, you get a 3rd quint. thats a big jump in power you should have to get used to. lets not forget that if you spend 450+ games playing you are looking at having maybe 65000 ip if you consistently win games every day and play over the course of 9-10 months. thats enough for the 16 cheapest champs for 11700, and enough ip leftover to fill your starting 2 rune pages. so you can jump into ranked, but with only access to annie, Ashe, Garen, Kayle, Master Yi, Nunu, Poppy, Ryze, Sivir, Soraka, Warwick and 5 of: the group that includes like morgana, Jax, Janna, Tristana, Nasus. those are probably the 5 best right now from that group. but playing ranked with that makes you so vulnerable to any meta shift at all.

its not even a fun experience for new players from 1-30, You can't say it is anymore at all. The amount of new players complaining about the community and the game in early levels is like 60% of the ones i run into. there are maybe 3-4 new players per game at most. and a lot of smurfs take the games as seriously as ranked, and flame the hell out of people, after all, most of these smurfs are people with banned accounts.


Filling two rune pages costs over 50k IP...? With 26k IP at level 30 on my smurf, I filled two rune pages and was able to get two 4,800 IP champions.

Ya i'm doubting that too lol.

Id say probably 10k or so max.
You'll probably use Yellows(armor) and blues(mr/l) on most pages, and the armor is what 205 each and the blues 205 or 410?
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 04 2014 00:34 GMT
#459
Armour seals: 1,845
MR glyphs: 1,845
AD quints: 3,075
AP quints: 3,075
Magic pen marks: 3,690
AD marks: 1,845

Total: 15,375
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-04 01:02:16
July 04 2014 00:59 GMT
#460
On July 04 2014 09:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Armour seals: 1,845
MR glyphs: 1,845
AD quints: 3,075
AP quints: 3,075
Magic pen marks: 3,690
AD marks: 1,845

Total: 15,375

Yeah, this isn't that expensive while building your way to 30. But once you get there and need 10+ rune pages stuff really adds up, especially if you start needing AS or /lvl runes of various types, specialized quints(MS/hybrid pen) etc.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
02:00
#68
RotterdaM768
TaKeTV 296
TKL 272
SteadfastSC155
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 768
ByuN 580
TKL 272
SteadfastSC 155
BRAT_OK 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3041
Shuttle 793
Bisu 773
Dewaltoss 130
firebathero 95
Killer 25
HiyA 25
ToSsGirL 23
Aegong 20
scan(afreeca) 18
[ Show more ]
Bishop 16
Sacsri 9
Hm[arnc] 9
Dota 2
qojqva3006
420jenkins322
PGG 229
monkeys_forever224
Counter-Strike
x6flipin383
gobbtv264
edward41
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu2460
MindelVK9
Other Games
tarik_tv5787
Grubby2648
Liquid`RaSZi2137
singsing2006
ceh91248
Beastyqt933
mouzStarbuck229
Livibee183
C9.Mang0170
ArmadaUGS136
Mew2King98
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL616
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 6
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• Reevou 0
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 51
• Eskiya23 16
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV701
League of Legends
• Nemesis4134
Other Games
• Shiphtur632
• imaqtpie477
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 13m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
18h 13m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
IPSL
4 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Proleague 2026-11-02
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.