EPT[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:18 Zdrastochye wrote: So was what I said factually wrong? "Carrying harder" doesn't always mean you're going to win. In the game that I was carrying the hardest recently, the Lulu on my team decided to overextend against an Eve jungle multiple times and die multiple times. Then they said "fuck it" and either afkd in base or pushed a lane out to river and then backed. We were fighting tooth and nail in 4v5s and just barely getting by so that when we lost, we didn't lose any objectives but if we won we couldn't take any either. This should have been a 30 minute cakewalk that would have been a 2:0 series. Instead it was a grinding 40 minute loss because random douchebag14 decided he'd rather have his team lose than win himself. During that series I have an average KDA of 13.17. My worst game was 13/8/11 in the 4v5. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
so 4v5 not really impossible to carry. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:36 wei2coolman wrote: I mean... I've won a ranked game this season at gold 3, where I had dc' issue, didn't reconnect til 30 min mark. And my team was up by 20 kills in a 4v5. 10 minutes later, we close out the game. so 4v5 not really impossible to carry. It's not impossible, but to say it's reasonable to expect it to happen is laughable. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
I used twitch personally, stopped playing him once I reached diamond to maintain the 80% winrate. a lot of people afk'd from bot lane, it isnt a coincidence basically the first rule of solo q...make the opponent team fuck up/mad before yours has the chance to do so seen some funny 4v4s and the like as a result of both teams getting butthurt simultaneously and you have 2 trolls trying to throw the game harder then the other. | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
an anonymous vote system, if everyone votes to kick someone from lobby without knowledge of whether other people have kicked or not might help? idk. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:13 Gahlo wrote: This is far from my first time around this promo series. Matchmaking doesn't match people by tier/division, it does it by elo. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=gahlo tick the Ranked Solo to filter to my last 20 ranked games Gonna put a big ol' [citation needed] on S3's Silver 3 being anywhere in bronze. It's like you're not even reading. I went through a whole bunch of your games and saw nothing out of the ordinary. The only games where you played against mid silvers were when you duo'ed with a Silver 2. All the other games were Silver 5s or lower with the occasional Silver 4. Unless I missed something, it's perfectly normal. Last season they had clamping for division 1 so divisions 2-5 were incredibly easy to climb. Making it to division 1 of the tier was only half the climb for that tier. That's why lots of people were stuck at division 1 of a certain tier. Silver 3 wasn't far off from Bronze. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:47 Zdrastochye wrote: I'm not sure Gahlo's problem is really a problem, at least I'm not convinced. I wonder if he'd have the same viewpoint no matter what his ranking was, or if he's just experiencing a lot of negativity in his games and its rubbing off on him. I still think if you manage to raise your elo far above the skill level you're playing with, you're good enough to take 2 out of 3 games versus those "better people". I get the sense that I won't be agreed with by him so I'll just drop it. the goal of matchmaking is to put you against people equal in skill to you, if you are consistently outplaying people of equal skill to you, then you are actually better than them. matchmakings goal is to get you to a 50% winrate ranking and not move you until you get there. Gahlo reached his 50% winrate MMR for the moment, but his visible ranking is not displaying the typical tier that people with his MMR reach. that is what is frustrating to him his visible ranking, but not his MMR are being artificially held down by the promo system. you don't get to skip promos to jump in visible ranking unless there is a big gap. if your MMR is that of say a diamond 1 player, and you are at Diamond 5, but playing vs diamond 1+ challenger players, your visible ranking is not displaying your skill. you are not being rewarded for going 50/50 with diamond 1/challenger level players. gahlo could beat his promos if they were vs his own visible tier of players that his MMR has surpassed, but he's playing vs opponents equal to him and as such is winning 50% of his matches vs better quality opponents than his peers in the same visible ranking tier. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:36 wei2coolman wrote: I mean... I've won a ranked game this season at gold 3, where I had dc' issue, didn't reconnect til 30 min mark. And my team was up by 20 kills in a 4v5. 10 minutes later, we close out the game. so 4v5 not really impossible to carry. I had a match like that, I was dc'd for like 20 minutes on ezreal. When I returned the score was in our favour and the team was able to just let me freeze bot lane until I had items. Turns out prework rango made the 4v5 a 4v4 every time :> | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On June 29 2014 16:02 PrinceXizor wrote: the goal of matchmaking is to put you against people equal in skill to you, if you are consistently outplaying people of equal skill to you, then you are actually better than them. matchmakings goal is to get you to a 50% winrate ranking and not move you until you get there. Gahlo reached his 50% winrate MMR for the moment, but his visible ranking is not displaying the typical tier that people with his MMR reach. that is what is frustrating to him his visible ranking, but not his MMR are being artificially held down by the promo system. you don't get to skip promos to jump in visible ranking unless there is a big gap. if your MMR is that of say a diamond 1 player, and you are at Diamond 5, but playing vs diamond 1+ challenger players, your visible ranking is not displaying your skill. you are not being rewarded for going 50/50 with diamond 1/challenger level players. gahlo could beat his promos if they were vs his own visible tier of players that his MMR has surpassed, but he's playing vs opponents equal to him and as such is winning 50% of his matches vs better quality opponents than his peers in the same visible ranking tier. No, actually, you are being rewarded accordingly, because you'll be getting like +30LP a win and only losing 8-12LP per win. It just doesn't matter in promos how much LP you actually have. So even winning exactly 50% of your matches, you will still advance into promos and as long as you get into promos then win 2/3 or 3/5 (basically a 50% chance to do so--think about it) you will advance divisions and tiers. Note that this only works if your MMR is higher than your division/tier. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Feels really, really fucking stupid to lose 5v4 to be honest. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
I could be wrong, but here's his argument restated: Hey guys, I've gone up 400 Elo recently, almost back to where I was last season! Or I would be, except because of some unfortunate luck in the exact games that my losses happen to be occurring, in this magical system of tiers and divisions, I am displayed as having not done anything, almost as if I had played no games at all. That kind of bums me out, I know it shouldn't because deep down I know I've done alright, but it sucks not seeing any visible notice of that progress! If only there were a system where I saw a constantly evolving number live update as I played games, so I could always see where I am in relation to my former self and my peers and friends! | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 29 2014 15:40 TyrantPotato wrote: As a complete scrub (im newb, how do carry), i just want some actual means to punish those who come into lobbies and hold the team to ransom "mid or feed" "x champ or feed". Im either forced to take the LP loss straight up, or adhere to these kids. an anonymous vote system, if everyone votes to kick someone from lobby without knowledge of whether other people have kicked or not might help? idk. How often do these people ACTUALLY feed if you don't give it to them though? I don't think I've ever seen that happen. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On June 29 2014 18:00 GolemMadness wrote: How often do these people ACTUALLY feed if you don't give it to them though? I don't think I've ever seen that happen. I think it's a LOT worse at lower levels than at high. The lower you go, the more prevalent the mentality of all my teammates are bad is. Playing on my smurf I had a top lane yi begin trolling because I took 1 creep after killing his laner. He would tp to lanes and push it out, and if all lanes were pushed, take all jungle creeps, resulting in 4 relatively underfarmed people. Takes so little to set some people off it's ridiculous. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On June 29 2014 16:42 PrinceXizor wrote: Unfortunately 50% chances don't happen one out of every 2 or even three times. but they happen 50% of the time. so you can get screwed repeatedly by an artificial system, and while it doesn't ACTUALLY hurt your progression or MMR, you aren't getting stuck anywhere that matters, it feels like it because the actual growth is hidden behind a wall with a bronze/silver/gold ect nametag. Uhhhh... no... You're describing a 50% chance 50% of the time which if you think about it is a really weird thing. What happens the other 50% of the time? I'm only talking about the winrate of someone. It's 50% and it's staying there so they must be winning, on average, 1 in 2 games. Their chance to win a specific game may be anywhere from 0% to 100% (unrealistic, but it's just to prove a point). As long as they win 1 in 2 games, on average, over a reasonable sample size, under the conditions I specified (MMR higher than visible LP/league), they will advance to the visible league of the people they play, by the way MMR/LP works. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2014 18:32 Volband wrote: Erm, to react to Gahlo's lost promos: Am I the only one who thinks if you are in bronze and want to reach at least silver, all you need is listen to good advices? Every time I see bronze players say things like "I should play this or that champion", something dies in me. Imo all you need is fundamentals and the right mindset, so it shouldn't be a problem that you have to play against mid silver guys in your promo to S5. honestly all you need to do to get to silver or any rank is win your promos, you don't need any skill at all in theory. if you get completely carried in the majority of your games you move up regardless of whether you are actually any good or not. On June 29 2014 18:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Uhhhh... no... You're describing a 50% chance 50% of the time which if you think about it is a really weird thing. What happens the other 50% of the time? I'm only talking about the winrate of someone. It's 50% and it's staying there so they must be winning, on average, 1 in 2 games. Their chance to win a specific game may be anywhere from 0% to 100% (unrealistic, but it's just to prove a point). As long as they win 1 in 2 games, on average, over a reasonable sample size, under the conditions I specified (MMR higher than visible LP/league), they will advance to the visible league of the people they play, by the way MMR/LP works. cool man. thats missing the point entirely though. glad you decided to reiterate everything thats already been said. we're talking about the experience of being on the downside of that 50% chance, not whether or not over the long run it works. | ||
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