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On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into.
probably the silliest part of promo matches, yeah. the argument is, if you can't win the promo series you aren't good enough to be silver/gold/plat/diamond 5, but you have to beat mineral- 2/3 players to prove you belong in mineral-5. not a problem for the people who are mineral 1-2 skill players just in a lower tier, but the people who ARE better than their league get bottlenecked by not being greatly better. Its weird how to get to be silver 5 you have to be better than silver 5 and it continues as you go up.
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On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into.
I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something.
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On June 29 2014 12:13 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. probably the silliest part of promo matches, yeah. the argument is, if you can't win the promo series you aren't good enough to be silver/gold/plat/diamond 5, but you have to beat mineral- 2/3 players to prove you belong in mineral-5. not a problem for the people who are mineral 1-2 skill players just in a lower tier, but the people who ARE better than their league get bottlenecked by not being greatly better. Its weird how to get to be silver 5 you have to be better than silver 5 and it continues as you go up.
I don't think this is necessarily the case, I think it's cuz if you're constantly stuck at doing promo's what ends up happening is your mmr keeps going up but your division is not.
After doing placement, I was playing with Gold II,I and Plat V people during my silver 1 promo's into Gold.
Skipped gold 4, went straight to 3, still playing mostly with Plat V guys, or Plat 4.
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On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something.
Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2.
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On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2.
its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure.
in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it.
it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual.
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On June 29 2014 13:04 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2. its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure. in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it. it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual.
I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine.
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On June 29 2014 13:06 Gahlo wrote:
I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine.
and i agree xD. It can be disheartening to be on the negative side of the feedback system. you are expected to continue to improve at the same rate relative to your opponents consistently. xD i feel for you man.
well ideally you just keep playing and improving and eventually the system just says fuck it and throws you higher without promos. but that takes a lot of games and will be frustrating every step of the way.
or you can duo queue with someone worse/the same ranking than you for your promos. and play with people more near bronze 2, abuse the duo queue system.
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On June 29 2014 13:06 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 13:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2. its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure. in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it. it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual. I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine.
I don't think it's stupid. The idea behind promos is to win one more than you lose within your next 3 or 5 games, which is basically what you're doing anyway if you're climbing the ladder. If you go 3-1 and get into your promos and then go 0-2, you essentially went 3-3 within your last 6 games and have no progress rating wise. A lot of times you might go 3-3 in the middle of the division and feel like you belong there but if you go 3-3 after your promos, you might just say stuff like "win every game except promos" when both examples is basically the same thing. I hope I am making sense.
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you don't play the people you did getting to promos while in promos is the problem. You might be consistently beating gold5-silver1 players to get your promo to gold5 but you're going to be playing gold2-3 in your actual promo games
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On June 29 2014 14:31 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 13:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 13:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2. its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure. in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it. it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual. I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine. I don't think it's stupid. The idea behind promos is to win one more than you lose within your next 3 or 5 games, which is basically what you're doing anyway if you're climbing the ladder. If you go 3-1 and get into your promos and then go 0-2, you essentially went 3-3 within your last 6 games and have no progress rating wise. A lot of times you might go 3-3 in the middle of the division and feel like you belong there but if you go 3-3 after your promos, you might just say stuff like "win every game except promos" when both examples is basically the same thing. I hope I am making sense.
But that's wrong for multiple reasons.
1) You need to win a game to get into a series. This increases the cross section of games that "magically matter" from a 66% of 60% required winrate to a 75% or 66% winrate.
2) Earlier today, I looked it up. In my last 20 ranked games I had gone 10:10. My displayed ranked went nowhere, which would normally be fair, except the # that the match making system judges me on has been going up. Back when League expressed your elo to you, you could go 50:50 and still move up if you could convince the calculation you deserved to be higher.
I am literally playing against people in Silver 4 up to Silver 2 at times in Bo3s to decide if I should be able to move into Bronze 1 because we have similar actual ranking. Doesn't that seem fucked up to you?
And before the elo-ego police want to come out, I peaked at Silver 3 last season.
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Gahlo, that actually sounds like it's working as intended. Plus if your elo is actually that far off, and you do win your promo, you skip divisions.
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On June 29 2014 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Gahlo, that actually sounds like it's working as intended. Plus if your elo is actually that far off, and you do win your promo, you skip divisions.
If I was winning my promos, I wouldn't be frustrated that my MMR keeps going up but the displayed ranking isn't going anywhere.
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On June 29 2014 14:45 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Gahlo, that actually sounds like it's working as intended. Plus if your elo is actually that far off, and you do win your promo, you skip divisions. If I was winning my promos, I wouldn't be frustrated that my MMR keeps going up but the displayed ranking isn't going anywhere.
Just sounds like unfortunate case of bad promo games. Don't worry buddy, you'll make it into the land of elo heaven.
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The promo system is kind of dumb, but there's really not a huge difference between someone in x5 and x4/3.
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On June 29 2014 14:54 GolemMadness wrote:
The promo system is kind of dumb, but there's really not a huge difference between someone in x5 and x4/3.
But there is in X2 and Y3/2.
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On June 29 2014 14:59 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:54 GolemMadness wrote:
The promo system is kind of dumb, but there's really not a huge difference between someone in x5 and x4/3. But there is in X2 and Y3/2.
Maybe the person in silver 2 just has low MMR. Don't worry about it too much. As long as you're able to keep improving, it's not a big deal if you make it through one promo or not. Once you finally do make it through, you should be able to rise through the rankings much quicker from the practice you've had.
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On June 29 2014 14:33 Nos- wrote:
you don't play the people you did getting to promos while in promos is the problem. You might be consistently beating gold5-silver1 players to get your promo to gold5 but you're going to be playing gold2-3 in your actual promo games
I'm pretty sure the matchmaking doesn't match you with people that much higher than you when it's your promos. I've seen sooo many games where people are in their promos and it's within the vicinity of their elo. I did my diamond promos this season 6x and I have never seen anyone over D4, maybe D3 unless they were duo.
On June 29 2014 14:41 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:31 K3Nyy wrote:On June 29 2014 13:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 13:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2. its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure. in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it. it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual. I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine. I don't think it's stupid. The idea behind promos is to win one more than you lose within your next 3 or 5 games, which is basically what you're doing anyway if you're climbing the ladder. If you go 3-1 and get into your promos and then go 0-2, you essentially went 3-3 within your last 6 games and have no progress rating wise. A lot of times you might go 3-3 in the middle of the division and feel like you belong there but if you go 3-3 after your promos, you might just say stuff like "win every game except promos" when both examples is basically the same thing. I hope I am making sense. But that's wrong for multiple reasons. 1) You need to win a game to get into a series. This increases the cross section of games that "magically matter" from a 66% of 60% required winrate to a 75% or 66% winrate. 2) Earlier today, I looked it up. In my last 20 ranked games I had gone 10:10. My displayed ranked went nowhere, which would normally be fair, except the # that the match making system judges me on has been going up. Back when League expressed your elo to you, you could go 50:50 and still move up if you could convince the calculation you deserved to be higher. I am literally playing against people in Silver 4 up to Silver 2 at times in Bo3s to decide if I should be able to move into Bronze 1 because we have similar actual ranking. Doesn't that seem fucked up to you? And before the elo-ego police want to come out, I peaked at Silver 3 last season.
Can I see your profile?
By the way, last season's Silver 3 was basically Bronze. Just saying.
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Last season's silver 3 was basically bronze? Meaning what?
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Then carry your promos harder. I mean that in as respectable a way as I can. If you're playing versus slightly better people than yourself, there's nothing stoping you from having good games 2 out of 3 times. You're making a bigger deal about facing mid range of a division to get into the bottom tier of a division. I PROMISE you silver 3s aren't head and shoulders above silver 5s. There's a ton less variance than you believe there to be. Yes this works up through diamond as well.
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On June 29 2014 15:04 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:59 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 14:54 GolemMadness wrote:
The promo system is kind of dumb, but there's really not a huge difference between someone in x5 and x4/3. But there is in X2 and Y3/2. Maybe the person in silver 2 just has low MMR. Don't worry about it too much. As long as you're able to keep improving, it's not a big deal if you make it through one promo or not. Once you finally do make it through, you should be able to rise through the rankings much quicker from the practice you've had.
This is far from my first time around this promo series.
On June 29 2014 15:06 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:33 Nos- wrote:
you don't play the people you did getting to promos while in promos is the problem. You might be consistently beating gold5-silver1 players to get your promo to gold5 but you're going to be playing gold2-3 in your actual promo games I'm pretty sure the matchmaking doesn't match you with people that much higher than you when it's your promos. I've seen sooo many games where people are in their promos and it's within the vicinity of their elo. I did my diamond promos this season 6x and I have never seen anyone over D4, maybe D3 unless they were duo. Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 14:41 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 14:31 K3Nyy wrote:On June 29 2014 13:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 13:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 29 2014 12:58 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 12:28 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 29 2014 12:06 Gahlo wrote:On June 29 2014 11:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 29 2014 11:00 Gahlo wrote:
Shit, I'm in the same promo series for the 10th time... Time to retire and play a different game.... It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to beat people 2-3 divisions above the one I'm trying to get into. I've noticed this too but I trust it's just an MMR thing. They have the same MMR as your team or something. Which is nice, but my promo series isn't to get into a 1300 bracket, which is in Silver 3, but to get into Bronze 2. its the downside of the artificial limit on your ranking for sure. in theory if you continue to improve eventually they will just thrust you into where your MMR belongs, but you won't make any visible progress in that time which is really crappy. its odd that you can go 10-0 into a promo series then go L W L and be told, welp 11-2 isn't enough to get to Bronze 2 sorry, even though an 11-2 streak definitely boosted your MMR more than it hurt it. it creates artificial success but also artificial failure. you are improving as a player regardless of whether your ranking reflects that or not, but you just have no feedback about that. and usually winning your promo series just confirms what you've already been doing. and creates a "success" out of business as usual. I know how it works and it's dumb. At this point there isn't anything I can really do outside of tank my mmr super hard or hope for retards on the other team instead of mine. I don't think it's stupid. The idea behind promos is to win one more than you lose within your next 3 or 5 games, which is basically what you're doing anyway if you're climbing the ladder. If you go 3-1 and get into your promos and then go 0-2, you essentially went 3-3 within your last 6 games and have no progress rating wise. A lot of times you might go 3-3 in the middle of the division and feel like you belong there but if you go 3-3 after your promos, you might just say stuff like "win every game except promos" when both examples is basically the same thing. I hope I am making sense. But that's wrong for multiple reasons. 1) You need to win a game to get into a series. This increases the cross section of games that "magically matter" from a 66% of 60% required winrate to a 75% or 66% winrate. 2) Earlier today, I looked it up. In my last 20 ranked games I had gone 10:10. My displayed ranked went nowhere, which would normally be fair, except the # that the match making system judges me on has been going up. Back when League expressed your elo to you, you could go 50:50 and still move up if you could convince the calculation you deserved to be higher. I am literally playing against people in Silver 4 up to Silver 2 at times in Bo3s to decide if I should be able to move into Bronze 1 because we have similar actual ranking. Doesn't that seem fucked up to you? And before the elo-ego police want to come out, I peaked at Silver 3 last season. Can I see your profile? By the way, last season's Silver 3 was basically Bronze. Just saying.
Matchmaking doesn't match people by tier/division, it does it by elo.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=gahlo tick the Ranked Solo to filter to my last 20 ranked games
Gonna put a big ol' [citation needed] on S3's Silver 3 being anywhere in bronze.
On June 29 2014 15:09 Zdrastochye wrote:
Then carry your promos harder. I mean that in as respectable a way as I can. If you're playing versus slightly better people than yourself, there's nothing stoping you from having good games 2 out of 3 times. You're making a bigger deal about facing mid range of a division to get into the bottom tier of a division. I PROMISE you silver 3s aren't head and shoulders above silver 5s. There's a ton less variance than you believe there to be. Yes this works up through diamond as well.
It's like you're not even reading.
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EPT
