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Gahlo
United States35160 Posts
On June 21 2014 06:14 clickrush wrote: well that is exactly what crit is. now they could just flatten it out and remove the luck part. another option would be to get crit only on specific situations but there is no easy answer to that one. Crit is already flattened out. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
everyone knows that but its still pseudo random. it sometimes happens and sometimes doesnt and you have no influence on it at all. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35160 Posts
On June 21 2014 06:24 clickrush wrote: everyone knows that but its still pseudo random. it sometimes happens and sometimes doesnt and you have no influence on it at all. So then what do you want, crit turned into a generic "+X% auto attack damage" stat? | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 21 2014 05:48 Alaric wrote: I just received a mail asking me to change my account's password on LoL, claiming that I asked for it. Did anyone else receive that? I think Scip mentioned it? No, I got a notification to verify my email, not to change acc name/password. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4937 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 21 2014 06:56 Uldridge wrote: I think crits are actually necessary for adc's to be relevant against lategame meatshields or they just won't cut through them. i agree with this the difference between IE/lw/pd and BT/lw/pd is pretty significant against tanks until you can finish your 4th damage item | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On June 21 2014 04:35 Goumindong wrote: Looking at Rageblade again i feel like it could be powerful on Udry and Teemo if you're willing to keep stacks up. Champion abilities, even passive abilities(like move quick) build Rageblade stacks. So udyr whose entire kite has a 6 second CD and a handful of AP ratios is a really good candidate for this kind of item. Teemo with BotRK, Ragebade+ tank would be one hell of a tough nut to crack, and do a lot of damage Please do not build rageblade on Udyr. Ever. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 21 2014 06:56 Uldridge wrote: I think crits are actually necessary for adc's to be relevant against lategame meatshields or they just won't cut through them. So true, how much more AD would IE need to have for it to have equivalent power at 3 and 4 item timings? 200? 300? Would you change its passive to something like +25%-+40% bonus AD. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 21 2014 06:14 clickrush wrote: well that is exactly what crit is. now they could just flatten it out and remove the luck part. another option would be to get crit only on specific situations but there is no easy answer to that one. edit: also riot is confused about what a feedback loop is. critical strike is not a feedback loop, it's a randomly distributed stimulation. it doesnt give feedback about anything and its certainly not a loop. crit is one of those rpg-like relics which adds only noise to the game and no depth at all. That isn't what crit is. You cannot charge it even of you can increase likelihood. Charging crit would be bad every champion should not have caits headshot mechanic and good Christ cait should not get it twice. When Morello is talking about a feedback loop he is talking about the loop involved in the visual "I got a crit" stimulus leading to "I will buy crit" leading to "yea more crits". This type of feedback loop is an effective way to get people to buy efficient items. And crit is very strong as a second/third item for ADs. And yes simply having crit multiply auto attack damage would be a great improvement over the current state of affairs. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:02 cLutZ wrote: So true, how much more AD would IE need to have for it to have equivalent power at 3 and 4 item timings? 200? 300? Would you change its passive to something like +25%-+40% bonus AD. Nope. You change crit to "weapon efficiency" which increases your auto attack damage by the multiplier. IE would be a multiplier on all of that purchased stats by 1.5. So if you have 50% crit and IE you would have .5 x 1.5 = .75 additional weapon efficiency. Which is precisely the expected damage currently with 50% crit and IE. And is for any crit value. edit: To see this, just look at the math Final Expected Damage = Base * (Crit * Crit Multiplier + (1-crit)*1) Final Expected Damage = Base * (Crit * (1+1+addl crit mod) + (1-crit)*1) Final Expected Damage = Base * (Crit * (1+addl crit mod) + 1) Final Expected Damage = Base * (1+ Crit * (1+addl crit mod)) So IE's cirt damage mod is directly equivalent in terms of expected DPS to increasing all purchased crit by 50% (not capped by the traditional 100% cap). The effect is exactly like deathcap except for crit value instead of AP | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Edit, nvm that it seems good. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21940 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:30 cLutZ wrote: Doesn't that significantly increase IE's single item power? Yes and No, Overall your damage will not change however by removing the RNG your burst will increase more since with just an IE its very much possible to not see a single crit in a short engage. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:30 cLutZ wrote: Doesn't that significantly increase IE's single item power? Nope. If anything its a reduction because randomness is exploitable by those who initiate it* (usually) but that might be a wash due to easier last hitting. All it does is make Infinity Edge's damage per hit constant at its expected damage per hit. *Its the standard effect when you have a handful of crit runes in lane and get that lucky crit on the enemy during a trade, and so can use the fact that you crit to bully the enemy out of lane since they can no longer fight you. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:07 Prog wrote: I personally think that the luck nature of crits is not bad at all. In fact, i really like that luck can turn situations. It gets one emotionally involved in situations that would otherwise be very bland. Exactly, without the "noise" a game is just, whatever team is better. just run a simulation if you need that. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:37 Gorsameth wrote: Yes and No, Overall your damage will not change however by removing the RNG your burst will increase more since with just an IE its very much possible to not see a single crit in a short engage. Your burst neither increases not decreases, its simply less variable. Less variability is a good thing Note that for AD's variable burst can be an advantage. The problem is that the execution of this variable advantage sucks and has no counter play. Basically suppose we are fighting short engages, poking, prodding, attacking whatever. And inbetween we heal off of creeps and items and pots etc. For the first attack of any engage there is a 25% chance that the guy with the IE crits. If he crits, he can immediately choose to continue to engage(drop the rest of his burst combo/chase/whatever) because the likelihood that you will get a crit to compare to his is the same as you getting another cirt. In this scenario, the ability to choose when he will execute his burst to combine with the critical strike means that his effective burst is higher with the random crit. This is what doublelift is discussing when he was complaining about IE first items and its precisely the same reason that the Phage slow proc was taken out of the game; the guy who gets the RNG first wins because they can immediately choose to prosecute the fight. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:42 PrinceXizor wrote: I would absolutely hate to play a league with crit taken out. they've already removed enough things that aid comebacks and playing from behind. lets not get rid of any that are left. Exactly, without the "noise" a game is just, whatever team is better. just run a simulation if you need that. Yea, god forbid the better team win. They removed dodge as a stat for the same reason they removed phage procs as an effect for the same reason. They should remove crit for the same reason | ||
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Gahlo
United States35160 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:44 Goumindong wrote: Your burst neither increases not decreases, its simply less variable. Less variability is a good thing Note that for AD's variable burst can be an advantage. The problem is that the execution of this variable advantage sucks and has no counter play. Basically suppose we are fighting short engages, poking, prodding, attacking whatever. And inbetween we heal off of creeps and items and pots etc. For the first attack of any engage there is a 25% chance that the guy with the IE crits. If he crits, he can immediately choose to continue to engage(drop the rest of his burst combo/chase/whatever) because the likelihood that you will get a crit to compare to his is the same as you getting another cirt. In this scenario, the ability to choose when he will execute his burst to combine with the critical strike means that his effective burst is higher with the random crit. This is what doublelift is discussing when he was complaining about IE first items and its precisely the same reason that the Phage slow proc was taken out of the game; the guy who gets the RNG first wins because they can immediately choose to prosecute the fight. Aram, no levels, no items, no abilities. All champions are generic gray blobs with the same stats. Bam, League balanced because no variability. IE doesn't force you to stay in the fight, Phage did. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 21 2014 07:45 Goumindong wrote: Yea, god forbid the better team win. They removed dodge as a stat for the same reason they removed phage procs as an effect for the same reason. They should remove crit for the same reason Yeah because everyone wants the better team to win always. this way we don't need to turn on LCS we can just look at the teams and know who will win. the better team winning a significant percentage is good and desired, the better team winning always. thats not something fun to watch and its not something that should be available to solo queue style games. if the better team always wins, then who wins or loses is entirely decided by the matchmaking and not by the players. there is a reason people use statistics to balance games and analyze sports and adjust rules, and not math. because math has an answer if there is an answer, there isn't a game. just an equation. don't make league an equation. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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